Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I feel sorry for you cresh...

Saying "my music is better then yours" isn't AP as 1 music can not be proved to be better then the other, So 1 side isn't being proved right cause of the masses....

And then you cotradictyourself by trying to prove Spiderman can win.

If one can indeed win, the poll is ad populem.
If one of the sides cannot win the poll is not ad populem, but can't be used as evidence because then the poll becomes who is more popular.

You can't despite what you'd like to think, have your cake and eat it too.

One way or the other, seeing as how you adaoted the "neith can win" after I called you on the poll being ad populem when before you were asserting (and even now you'll still assert) that Spiderman would win you are obviously trying to cover your ass because I called you on using the poll, by pointing out it's ad populem.

And now you've gotten us onto a loop outside the debate.

"Punching with brick breaking strength to hit him at such an angle that his neck should have broken. . . and you don't expect him to die? 🙄"

Wolvie gets hit by the hulk and lives.... if that comic pis/cis happens I would expect spider punches to be nothing...🙄
Can you tell me where exactly he got hit??? and how hard??? Was spiderman trying to kill wolvie? or like the other times was he holding back cause he doesn't kill...

"Hmm maybe three days without breathing?

That's how long he was crucified, and if you know about how Crucifixion works. . ."

Crucifixion doesn't really count.... You can shift your body weight to your hands so you can breath, and when your tire sit back down where you can't breath... The idea being to tire you out so you can't hold yourself up and you do suffocate... as wolvie is a mutant he should be able to go for much longer then a normal man... However he wouldn't last that long underwater... a hour is generous at best... Unless you have scans of him holding for longer.. which I would love to see... Spider could web him and strangle him....

"Oh strawman argument."
Explain please....

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
"Punching with brick breaking strength to hit him at such an angle that his neck should have broken. . . and you don't expect him to die? 🙄"

Wolvie gets hit by the hulk and lives.... if that comic pis/cis happens I would expect spider punches to be nothing...🙄
Can you tell me where exactly he got hit??? and how hard??? Was spiderman trying to kill wolvie? or like the other times was he holding back cause he doesn't kill...

"Hmm maybe three days without breathing?

That's how long he was crucified, and if you know about how Crucifixion works. . ."

Crucifixion doesn't really count.... You can shift your body weight to your hands so you can breath, and when your tire sit back down where you can't breath... The idea being to tire you out so you can't hold yourself up and you do suffocate... as wolvie is a mutant he should be able to go for much longer then a normal man... However he wouldn't last that long underwater... a hour is generous at best... Unless you have scans of him holding for longer.. which I would love to see... Spider could web him and strangle him....

"Oh strawman argument."
Explain please....

Man, this fight already happened. Spiderman intended to kill Wolverine and he wasn't able. He even stated he couldn't let up for a second cuz Wolverine would kill him. MAYBE... just MAYBE.. he COULDN'T web up Wolverine because that moment of not attacking would be enough to let Wolverine into his aorta He stated in the scans I posted "I'm hitting him with EVERYTHING I've got" so the argument of Spiderman holding back his punches is BS.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Which is what youre saying of the fight.
And then you cotradictyourself by trying to prove Spiderman can win.
If one can indeed win, the poll is ad populem.
If one of the sides cannot win the poll is not ad populem, but can't be used as evidence because then the poll becomes who is more popular.
You can't despite what you'd like to think, have your cake and eat it too.
One way or the other, seeing as how you adaoted the "neith can win" after I called you on the poll being ad populem when before you were asserting (and even now you'll still assert) that Spiderman would win you are obviously trying to cover your ass because I called you on using the poll, by pointing out it's ad populem.

And now you've gotten us onto a loop outside the debate.

This is quite crystal clear.... For it to be AP One side must be proven to be correct... Such as Wolverine having a uber spiderkillin gun that never misses and auto targets spider when hes in range (which is always) and also works when he sleeps.... then It would be AP as wolvie would always win, Now if I supported spider It would be AP as I was clearly wrong...

Here though Spiderman VS Wolverine isn't certain... 1 side could possibly win or lose... But neither has been shown to beat the other, so if 10 matches took place, I think spiderman would win 6-7/10... thats my opinion.. Not a fact.. So this argument has no basis to be AP... I'm not contradicting proof given with my opinion....

*sigh* someone needs to go read up on AP... you clearly are incapable of seeing your wrong... even after its been spelled out to you...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
"Punching with brick breaking strength to hit him at such an angle that his neck should have broken. . . and you don't expect him to die? 🙄"

Wolvie gets hit by the hulk and lives.... if that comic pis/cis happens I would expect spider punches to be nothing...🙄

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Can you tell me where exactly he got hit???

However this would require breaking the adamantium as the bonding process I think caused his bones to be held together in such a way that several other times they should have been seperated in 616 they weren't. his flesh has been burned off, he's been cut in certain ways, and even the times we see divergent timelines after his bonding proccess his bones are held together even when there is just a skeleton.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
and how hard???

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Was spiderman trying to kill wolvie?

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
or like the other times was he holding back cause he doesn't kill...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
"Hmm maybe three days without breathing?

That's how long he was crucified, and if you know about how Crucifixion works. . ."

Crucifixion doesn't really count.... You can shift your body weight to your hands so you can breath, and when your tire sit back down where you can't breath... The idea being to tire you out so you can't hold yourself up and you do suffocate... as wolvie is a mutant he should be able to go for much longer then a normal man... However he wouldn't last that long underwater... a hour is generous at best... Unless you have scans of him holding for longer.. which I would love to see... Spider could web him and strangle him....

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
"Oh strawman argument."
Explain please....

Based on the premise that Wolverine was telling the truth at the end of the graveyard fight and Spiderman COULD break Wolverine's neck, how would he be able to do it without breaking the adamantium bonded vertebrae?

Tesit to the side, like the way he was hit in the slightly altered picture I showed:

(I only changed the dialouge and merged the end of one page with the begining of the next page. The dialouge because it's funny and merging to show what happened right after Spiderman punched him)

A twist to the side would have killed wolverine in the Graveyard?

Like this?:

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
*sigh* someone needs to go read up on AP... you clearly are incapable of seeing your wrong... even after its been spelled out to you...

You're setting up a double standard that I will not have any of it.

You're trying to prove one side (Spiderman) would win.

After stating that neither side can win?

Originally posted by scotsmn
Man, this fight already happened. Spiderman intended to kill Wolverine and he wasn't able. He even stated he couldn't let up for a second cuz Wolverine would kill him. MAYBE... just MAYBE.. he COULDN'T web up Wolverine because that moment of not attacking would be enough to let Wolverine into his aorta He stated in the scans I posted "I'm hitting him with [B] EVERYTHING I've got" so the argument of Spiderman holding back his punches is BS. [/B]

You shouldn't fixate on 1 ancient fight... Spiderman is much stronger now and has better reflexes, wolvie has just gotten a stronger healing factor.... there have been other fights where spiderman wooped wolvie.. Do those fights give irafutable proof that spiderman would win 10/10??

The past doesn't dictate the future.... Its a rough guide, but not law.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You're setting up a double standard that I will not have any of it.
You're trying to prove one side (Spiderman) would win.
After stating that neither side can win?

It's a shame AC was right about you, this is the second time I've debated with you where you seem to twist all the statements I make...

I've given my opinion that spiderman would win.. and multiple others have two... More people have sided with spiderman then wolverine. Seeing as this is using a poll, (a democratic way of siding with the majority on decisions).. Spiderman wins, This isn't AP as there has been no irrefutable proof that Spiderman won't win.

for the last time...

AP only comes into play when the majority go against the scientificaly proven fact... IE Such as the earth being round, Its proven that it is...

AP doesn't effect opinion polls... Such as Which side is the correct to drive on... People in England like to drive on the left... Other countries like to drive on right. Neither is right as there is no proof that 1 is better than the other...

There is no proof that Spiderman or wolverine, Will always beat the other 100%.. So its NOT AP....

Spiderman could of tried to kill wolverine other ways then just trying to snap his neck... Such has choking or blood loss..

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
It's a shame AC was right about you, this is the second time I've debated with you where you seem to twist all the statements I make...

I've given my opinion that spiderman would win.. and multiple others have two... More people have sided with spiderman then wolverine. Seeing as this is using a poll, (a democratic way of siding with the majority on decisions).. Spiderman wins, This isn't AP as there has been no irrefutable proof that Spiderman won't win.

for the last time...

AP only comes into play when the majority go against the scientificaly proven fact... IE Such as the earth being round, Its proven that it is...

AP doesn't effect opinion polls... Such as Which side is the correct to drive on... People in England like to drive on the left... Other countries like to drive on right. Neither is right as there is no proof that 1 is better than the other...

There is no proof that Spiderman or wolverine, Will always beat the other 100%.. So its NOT AP....

Spiderman could of tried to kill wolverine other ways then just trying to snap his neck... Such has choking or blood loss..

The difference between the fights were Wolverine gets the upper hand and where Spiderman does is in the WAY in which each fight ends. Webbing someone up doesn't have the same authority behind it as popping two claws on each side of Spiderman's face with the third waiting to END him if he chooses to continue.

During all the fights I have seen, Wolverine at several times during the fight has his claws retracted. So, even the fight(s) where Spiderman appears to have gotten the upper hand were only so because Wolverine had qualms about killing him.

You mentioned the scans I posted as being old and outdated but you refer to a fight between Spiderman and the X-men where Spiderman "slaps" Wolverine out of the way. That is OLD man... REALLY old. And besides, what the heck does slapping Wolv out of the way have to do with winning a fight?

That was C that mentioned the pic of spider slapping wolvie out the way.. I refered to the recent few...

I don't like these feat wars... while you say wolvie fought with his claws in... he would realise that hes at spiders mercy when hes webbed up.. theres nother stopping spiderman choking wolvie there??? but spider doesn't kill his foes in the comics... While wolvie does.... Theres a big difference.. Wolvie nearly always fights with bloodlust while spider is alot carmer...

Originally posted by Creshosk
Chin from the side the force would cause Wolverine's head to twist enough to break the neck.

Enough to break brick.

Uncertain. He thought it was an imposter and was hitting hard enough to break brick. He had been hit pretty hard by Wolverine, because he underestimated the "imposter".

Trained humans can break brick. What's your point?

Given his high pain threshold and unbreakable bones, Wolverine could punch through the same brick chimney. In my opinion, that was a rather weak punch that Spidey intended to hit Wolvie with, since he thought he was just a normal human and all.

And with the graveyard-going-all-out thing...I'm still under the assumption that Spidey, even though saying that he was (he sure seemed to be quite preoccupied with something else), was clearly not going all out. If he were, he would've EASILY punched Wolvie through the tombstone. That tombstone barely cracked. And yet Spidey can effortlessly punch through concrete and steel on a daily basis. For some reason, however, tombstones give him trouble it seems.

That, or he always holds back against most opponents. Even knowing that he most likely won't kill Wolvie, do you really think he's going to take a chance? This is Spiderman...more of a non-killer than the boy-scout that Superman is.

[QUOTE=5330259]Originally posted by Metalmanx

And with the graveyard-going-all-out thing...I'm still under the assumption that Spidey, even though saying that he was (he sure seemed to be quite preoccupied with something else), was clearly not going all out.

Dude, he says right THERE in the comic that he is giving it EVERYTHING he has.
He decides he needs to KILL Wolverine to stop him.. KILL. You think Spiderman is gonna try to KILL Wolverine unless he's tried everything else? You think he's gonna punch him so-so and then say "Hey, I think I should try to kill him"

[QUOTE=5330259]Originally posted by Metalmanx

If he were, he would've EASILY punched Wolvie through the tombstone. That tombstone barely cracked.

I'm sure if he were punching the tombstone directly it would have been destroyed. Wolverine was in the way though.. and maybe the tombstone had a healing factor?

[QUOTE=5330259]Originally posted by Metalmanx

That, or he always holds back against most opponents. Even knowing that he most likely won't kill Wolvie, do you really think he's going to take a chance? This is Spiderman...more of a non-killer than the boy-scout that Superman is.

He took a chance alright

.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
It's a shame AC was right about you, this is the second time I've debated with you where you seem to twist all the statements I make...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I've given my opinion that spiderman would win.. and multiple others have two... More people have sided with spiderman then wolverine.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Seeing as this is using a poll, (a democratic way of siding with the majority on decisions)..

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
Spiderman wins, This isn't AP as there has been no irrefutable proof that Spiderman won't win.

You try to prove that Spiderman would win, you even say that there is no proof against it, and then you say that it's not ad populem. If you understood what ad populem was you'd realize that it's an appeal to public opinion as evidence to support a side. It doesn't matter if the popular opinion sides with the truth or not. Using a poll as evidence in something like this is ad populem no matter how much you deny it it is ad populem.

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
for the last time...

AP only comes into play when the majority go against the scientificaly proven fact... IE Such as the earth being round, Its proven that it is...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
AP doesn't effect opinion polls... Such as Which side is the correct to drive on... People in England like to drive on the left... Other countries like to drive on right. Neither is right as there is no proof that 1 is better than the other...

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
There is no proof that Spiderman or wolverine, Will always beat the other 100%.. So its NOT AP....[/n]

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
[B]Spiderman could of tried to kill wolverine other ways then just trying to snap his neck... Such has choking or blood loss..

Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
That was C that mentioned the pic of spider slapping wolvie out the way.. I refered to the recent few...

I don't like these feat wars... while you say wolvie fought with his claws in... he would realise that hes at spiders mercy when hes webbed up.. theres nother stopping spiderman choking wolvie there??? but spider doesn't kill his foes in the comics... While wolvie does.... Theres a big difference.. Wolvie nearly always fights with bloodlust while spider is alot carmer...

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Trained humans can break brick. What's your point?

Can humans survive shots that can break brick? Can their bones? Are bones as strong as brick?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Given his high pain threshold and unbreakable bones, Wolverine could punch through the same brick chimney. In my opinion, that was a rather weak punch that Spidey intended to hit Wolvie with, since he thought he was just a normal human and all.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And with the graveyard-going-all-out thing...I'm still under the assumption that Spidey, even though saying that he was (he sure seemed to be quite preoccupied with something else), was clearly not going all out.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
If he were, he would've EASILY punched Wolvie through the tombstone.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
That tombstone barely cracked.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And yet Spidey can effortlessly punch through concrete and steel on a daily basis.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
For some reason, however, tombstones give him trouble it seems./[quote] I'd say it was wolverine that was giving him more trouble.

[QUOTE=5330259]Originally posted by Metalmanx
That, or he always holds back against most opponents.[/]b]

Originally posted by Metalmanx
[B]This is Spiderman...more of a non-killer than the boy-scout that Superman is.

* IMO, Spidey can do better than what the comic shown...

* hell, i think it's somehow right... Spidey will lose if and when he goes "all-out"... anger, confusion and other emotional problems make Spidey sloppy (said & confirmed by Daredevil)...

* however, the Spidey i know, will not stoop that low and not that stupid to stand toe-to-toe with Logan (knowing how Logan fights)... Spidey, in good mind, will device a way to use his spider-strength, his spider-sense, agility, quick reflexes and web-shooters to his advantage...

* Spidey wins this 8/10...
* mano y mano, Wolverine 8/10...

Originally posted by scotsmn
The difference between the fights were Wolverine gets the upper hand and where Spiderman does is in the WAY in which each fight ends. Webbing someone up doesn't have the same authority behind it as popping two claws on each side of Spiderman's face with the third waiting to END him if he chooses to continue.

During all the fights [B]I have seen, Wolverine at several times during the fight has his claws retracted. So, even the fight(s) where Spiderman appears to have gotten the upper hand were only so because Wolverine had qualms about killing him.

You mentioned the scans I posted as being old and outdated but you refer to a fight between Spiderman and the X-men where Spiderman "slaps" Wolverine out of the way. That is OLD man... REALLY old. And besides, what the heck does slapping Wolv out of the way have to do with winning a fight? [/B]

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You're right, webbing someone up and leaving them there is different from getting an accidental stab.

... which leads to unconsciousness