Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Originally posted by TheKahn
True, but Batman is a slightly different case. Given his vast wealth, it would be relatively easy for him to either locate masters of the styles he wished to know and travel to them for training, or for him to simply pay them all to come to him and teach him. It's good to be rich. Still if he started as a young teen and devoted years to such study it is possible if not probable. And that is all I ask for; just some kind of explanation that would make a little sense.

Just a side note.

Even though it was never stated, seeing that Wolverine was trained by Ogun for an undisclosed amount of time it would be possible for him to have mastered every martial art. He has some sort of mystical ability that allowed him to hammer years of training into Kitty in days if not hours, he could have done the same with Logan.

That being said it doesn't matter. You guys are just picking at straws, Captain America and Shang Chi are both masters of every single martial art. Shang Chi is much younger the Wolverine and Cap told Zemo he was a master of every MA in the earily 80s... some 20 years ago. It's hardly something that can be argued, Cap know ever martial art and that's just the way it is.

EDIT: Wolverine has more doe then you can shake a stick at his bank his L. L & L after all.

Originally posted by Nova Angel
But I can imagine them learning all them style because of their past time being alive all them years but I don't understand people like batman learning 147 styles I believe, and being only like what in his late 20's.

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Its a comic.

Originally posted by Murda Mase
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NOOOOO all those dreams dashed away in the blink of an eye cry

Originally posted by capt it up
dude what suport have they used to say why colossus can walk? or sueprman fly?
wolverine has at least oevr 100 years of fighting and training experience he was trianed by a guy who was over 1000 years old and he ahd memoriy implants they give a lot more reason then they do for colossus and thing and superman

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=77
mutant-exotic carbon-polymer flesh gives him enhanced strength and can reorganize its structure with a charge of bio-energy so that his entire body transforms into organic steel, increasing his size, strength, speed and endurance while making him virtually indestructible and capable of surviving without food or air

Colossus' body transforms into a type of organic steel not into a solid
block of metal and obviously a propriety of the structure of his organic steel body is that he is able to move it. A mutant power is something I'm willing to accept but this does not apply as learning martial arts isn't a result of Wolverine's mutant abilities.

http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/superman/superman.html
Superman is able to manipulate psionically, graviton particles, in an unknown and apparently unconscious manner, to defy the forces of gravity. Under one Earth gravity, Utililizing molecular motion, Superman is capable of Mach speeds in excess of Mach 10 in atmosphere. He has been seen to fly to the moon in minutes so we can assume that he can fly faster than that outside of atmospheric interference.

What you cited would explain Wolverine having some martial arts training, but there is a immense chasm between knowing some and mastering all. Such an extraordinary feat require an extraordinary explanation. Training from a demon whom we have no proof knows every martial arts style isn't enough.

Is Wolverine in his bezerk rage?

What's funny is it doesn't matter if you don't want to accept it. Your denial of the truth has no impact on it. Marvel has stated that he does in many diffferent ways. Denying that falling into a volcano will kill you, will not save you from being killed by the volcano. Denying that the sun is there will not make it go away.

It's been stated many different times that he knows them.

Likewise we're given no explination of when he learned the different languages he knows. But are you going to deny he knows them? When he has spoken them to people? Or when he says he knows them?

You truly are grasping ast straws when you say that a character cannot do something that is stated to be part of the character. It also shows what a weak position you have when you deny it, as if denying it will help your case. So unless you can account for each and every day of his life, through all of his years of existence. How can you deny something that has been stated to be true by the company that owns that character?

Arguing that he has an ability not stated to have, because he has demonstrated that ability in the comic is different. For if he can do something, as shown to do multiple times in the comic or stated in the comic that is not in his bio. Like Namor's flying speed. then you can say that the bio is innaccurate. However you have to accept it as true until proven otherwise if a person tells you that's what the character can do.

Originally posted by Creshosk
What's funny is it doesn't matter if you don't want to accept it. Your denial of the truth has no impact on it. Marvel has stated that he does in many diffferent ways. Denying that falling into a volcano will kill you, will not save you from being killed by the volcano. Denying that the sun is there will not make it go away.

It's been stated many different times that he knows them.

Likewise we're given no explination of when he learned the different languages he knows. But are you going to deny he knows them? When he has spoken them to people? Or when he says he knows them?

You truly are grasping ast straws when you say that a character cannot do something that is stated to be part of the character. It also shows what a weak position you have when you deny it, as if denying it will help your case. So unless you can account for each and every day of his life, through all of his years of existence. How can you deny something that has been stated to be true by the company that owns that character?

Arguing that he has an ability not stated to have, because he has demonstrated that ability in the comic is different. For if he can do something, as shown to do multiple times in the comic or stated in the comic that is not in his bio. Like Namor's flying speed. then you can say that the bio is innaccurate. However you have to accept it as true until proven otherwise if a person tells you that's what the character can do.

If there is on panel evidence please post it. I'm always willing to reconsider my positions if I'm presented with evidence to the contrary. The reason I've taken issue with this claim is that it is often made but isn't, to my knowledge, supported with on panel evidence. While I usually don't put a large amount of stock into bios, I just checked Marvel.com and it's bio of Wolverine only states that he has mastered virtually every fighting style. Which in my mind is a rather vague description. I am willing to (and have in past post) accept that Wolverine knows a lot of fighting styles, just not that he has mastered them all without some kind of proof.

To be honest, Wolverine doesn't know EVERY martial art out there. Neither does Shang-chi, or even Ogun. Shang-chi is the master of all forms of Kung-fu, which is more than enough anyway. It wouldn't suprise me if Wolverine knew nearly all of Japan's martial arts and swordplay techniques, and then what Ogun taught him. However, there is only one character in Marvel that's the TRUE master of all forms of Martial Arts, and that's Champion. He has one benefit though: He's immortal.

Don't take the handbooks seriously when it says: "Master of all forms of martial arts" because they're yanking your chain. They're basicallyl saying, "knows more martial arts then you will ever learn in your own lifetime."

Its a bunch of hyperbole just all all these infinitetly strong types, indestructible types and Skyfather types.......................say it with me HYPERBOLE🙂

Hyperbole

To be honest Shang Chi is a master of ever martial art. His book was called "Master of Kung-fu" he (like his father who he killed) is a master of every martial art. When he was training with the Monks in the temple where his father trained he fought half a dozen monks at the same time and everyone of them was a master of... (get ready) every martial art!

Seriously, you said that very clearly!

Wolverine's fans like to really stretch that one out as well as his stats.......................................................................................like more stretched then that.

Yeah, I wouldn't take the whole "master of every form" thing seriously. It's basically the comic book way of saying "this guy is wicked awesome at martial arts."

Originally posted by Murda Mase
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Its a comic.

Hey I know that, I was just trying to make a point, tell them that, because thats really my excuse for what happens when some'n crazy happens in a comic and that's all the time

Originally posted by TheKahn
If there is on panel evidence please post it. I'm always willing to reconsider my positions if I'm presented with evidence to the contrary. The reason I've taken issue with this claim is that it is often made but isn't, to my knowledge, supported with on panel evidence. While I usually don't put a large amount of stock into bios, I just checked Marvel.com and it's bio of Wolverine only states that he has mastered virtually every fighting style. Which in my mind is a rather vague description. I am willing to (and have in past post) accept that Wolverine knows a lot of fighting styles, just not that he has mastered them all without some kind of proof.

Define "Virtually"

And then tell me why such a distinction is needed in context of the topic.

Originally posted by Creshosk
[B]What's funny is it doesn't matter if you don't want to accept it. Your denial of the truth has no impact on it. Marvel has stated that he does in many diffferent ways. Denying that falling into a volcano will kill you, will not save you from being killed by the volcano. Denying that the sun is there will not make it go away.[B]

Whats this subjective truth you keep speaking of..................lol TheKahn is denying something you hold as truth.

its Hyperbole......................hell I have never seen so many masters of all martial arts at one time..............................everytime you turn around a new one pops up and yet they get their arse handed to them time and time again..............................

Originally posted by Soleran
Whats this subjective truth you keep speaking of..................lol TheKahn is denying something you hold as truth.

Originally posted by Soleran
its Hyperbole......................hell I have never seen so many masters of all martial arts at one time..............................everytime you turn around a new one pops up and yet they get their arse handed to them time and time again..............................

Like in a contest of seeing how far through a theoretical brick wall a person can punch. Marvel Universe Martial artists for all their skill can not compete with the poorman's ninja that is spiderman.

h2h dfor all Batmans skill, with out an humongous plot device or some gadget or what have ytou etc etc. Superman would still cream him.

In this fight however the distinctions I've pointed out are not nearly so great. All of Wolverine's skill will be used simply trying to keep pace with Spiderman.

And as I have said the only thing that allows Wolverine a win, is those claws and his durability (healing factor & stamina etc)

Originally posted by Soleran
Whats this subjective truth you keep speaking of..................lol TheKahn is denying something you hold as truth.

its Hyperbole......................hell I have never seen so many masters of all martial arts at one time..............................everytime you turn around a new one pops up and yet they get their arse handed to them time and time again..............................

There are only four people in Marvel to have been stated to be masters of every Martial Art in an actually comic (excluding random monks from the temple where Shang Chi trained). 1.) Captain America 2) Fu-man Chu 3) Shang Chi and 4) Dragon Fly.

Moving Shadow is likely to be as well but it was never said. Is Wolverine? How could we know? He didn't even have memory of his paste to be able to give an answer himself until recently. What he know is that Marvel says he does in the hand books and he has out fought every single one of marvel's A list martial arts at one time or another.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Better, but you're still grasping.

Define "Virtually"

And then tell me why such a distinction is needed in context of the topic.

The topic of how many martial arts Wolverine knows came up several pages ago (I'm not sure who first brought it up). And I decided to post my opinion on the subject. People kept claiming that Wolverine was a master of every style of martial arts on earth but they would not and have not posted any on panel evidence to support this. While "virtually" is a rather flexible term, imo it isn't interchangeable with "every". I could understand how someone could see this as "grasping" as you put it or as "nit picking" as Capt it up said but it is a claim I've heard in many a Wolverine threads and I wanted to see some evidence to support it. Is it terribly important to this fight? Most likely not, but again it is something I thought might could be cleared up here.