Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Originally posted by jinzin
How am I being hostile? 🤨

I didn't insult you, nor did I impose a threatening manner...

You're bringing up red herrings like crazy whether you mean to or not... and I keep having to explain to you the concept I'm trying to convey. You're innacurate comparisons/explainations consistently show that you're not grasping at least SOME part of what I'm saying.. so again.. which part is it?

Innacurate? What the heck are you babbling about? 🤨 What I said about Slade's ability isn't innacurate at all. I just missed part of what you were saying.

It's an innacurate comparison of an example to counter a point the premise to which I never made...

what you said was correct.. why you brought it up was innacrate.

Originally posted by jinzin
so if spiderman isn't bound by what we recognise as something that doesn't make sense why are human characters in a comic book world?

It has still been explained how and where he got it.

Originally posted by jinzin
a lot about logan's past has been omitted there's so many x-factors and missing chapters in his life it's not even funny... that's hardly a reason to discard an attribute he's been stated to have.

But it hasn't been explained how and where he got the 1000+ martial arts.

Let's explain it like this, with Captain America and Spider-Man.

About Year 1920 or so. Captain America is born.

He is scrawny child with no martial arts training whatsoever until he goes to Super-Soldier program in about Year 1940.
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<-------During this time period (Five years) He should have gotten nearly all his martial arts knowledge.
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Year 1945, The plane explodes. Cap is iced.

Twenty years pass, and Cap is found from ice by Namor. Avengers save him.

We don't really see him meeting much martial art trainers or spending more then a week in other countries. So most of his martial arts knowledge should have come from the aforementioned five year period. Let's assume that there is about 400 martial arts in the world (which is a understatement). Five years is about 1825 days. Let's divide that with 400. That makes 4,5 DAYS.

So, Cap would have to master one martial art per four and a half day. If he didn't sleep, eat or do anything else then practiced 24/7 for five years. He ALSO wouldn't have time to travel the entire globe, OR have any rest. Once he had completed one art, he would have had continued to the next one. No time for explaining from his teachers.

That doesn't make sense in EITHER comic book world or real world. Comic books have stated on numerous occasions that perfecting martial arts isn't easy.

(Let's do the same with Wolverine...365 x 100(years) / 400. That's about 91 days. He would need to master one martial art in three months. During his entire life, he also couldn't eat, sleep or do anything else then practice, practice, practice.)

Now Spider-Man's life was completely normal until the day he got bitten by radioactive Spider and acquired his powers. He got them in one day. Like 90% of people who have powers in comics.

Now, that doesn't make sense in real world, BUT it makes sense in comic book world. They have different science then we do.

But martial arts don't have science in them. It's all about learning. So, if someone didn't have photographic memory and superspeed/endless time, it wouldn't possibly in any of these worlds to learn martial arts THAT fast.

But it hasn't been explained how and where he got the 1000+ martial arts.

We don't really see him meeting much martial art trainers or spending more then a week in other countries. So most of his martial arts knowledge should have come from the aforementioned five year period. Let's assume that there is about 400 martial arts in the world (which is a understatement). Five years is about 1825 days. Let's divide that with 400. That makes 4,5 DAYS.

(Let's do the same with Wolverine...365 x 100(years) / 400. That's about 91 days. He would need to master one martial art in three months. During his entire life, he also couldn't eat, sleep or do anything else then practice, practice, practice.)

But martial arts don't have science in them. It's all about learning. So, if someone didn't have photographic memory and superspeed/endless time, it wouldn't possibly in any of these worlds to learn martial arts THAT fast.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It has still been explained how and where he got it.

But it hasn't been explained how and where he got the 1000+ martial arts.

Let's explain it like this, with Captain America and Spider-Man.

About Year [b]1920 or so. Captain America is born.

He is scrawny child with no martial arts training whatsoever until he goes to Super-Soldier program in about Year 1940.
-
-
-
-
<-------During this time period (Five years) He should have gotten nearly all his martial arts knowledge.
-
-
-
-
Year 1945, The plane explodes. Cap is iced.

Twenty years pass, and Cap is found from ice by Namor. Avengers save him.

We don't really see him meeting much martial art trainers or spending more then a week in other countries. So most of his martial arts knowledge should have come from the aforementioned five year period. Let's assume that there is about 400 martial arts in the world (which is a understatement). Five years is about 1825 days. Let's divide that with 400. That makes 4,5 DAYS.

So, Cap would have to master one martial art per four and a half day. If he didn't sleep, eat or do anything else then practiced 24/7 for five years. He ALSO wouldn't have time to travel the entire globe, OR have any rest. Once he had completed one art, he would have had continued to the next one. No time for explaining from his teachers.

That doesn't make sense in EITHER comic book world or real world. Comic books have stated on numerous occasions that perfecting martial arts isn't easy.

(Let's do the same with Wolverine...365 x 100(years) / 400. That's about 91 days. He would need to master one martial art in three months. During his entire life, he also couldn't eat, sleep or do anything else then practice, practice, practice.)

Now Spider-Man's life was completely normal until the day he got bitten by radioactive Spider and acquired his powers. He got them in one day. Like 90% of people who have powers in comics.

Now, that doesn't make sense in real world, BUT it makes sense in comic book world. They have different science then we do.

But martial arts don't have science in them. It's all about learning. So, if someone didn't have photographic memory and superspeed/endless time, it wouldn't possibly in any of these worlds to learn martial arts THAT fast. [/B]

again... you're arguing a point that I agree with to logical extents.. i just don't agree with discarding described abilities.. look.. how do half the characters that fly fly? change trajectories? speed up or slow down? That doesn't make any sense but we take it at face value don't we?

same goes for characters who know every M.A.

like I said.. i agree with your rationale.. I just don't agree with where you're choosing to apply it.

Originally posted by Tshern
Is that amount just an assumption or what? I haven't read every post in this thread so I'm just wondering whether you meant that there's a shitload of martial arts or is that just a figure you use as an example...

Maybe he learnt them while being in suspended animation by dreams. And yes, that was a joke.

I'm pretty sure I understand what are you looking for here, but that logic does take out pretty much every single peak human characters' skill set. Batman, Nightwing, partially Daredevil, Captain America, Shang Chi... I suppose it is not wise to fight against it since so many characters are relying on it.

True dat. Though as I said, it's no use questioning it, Batman is said to know 127 martial arts and it's okay, Cap is said to know all, it should be okay too if it's given as a standard value in comics. But isn't there a handbook or something saying that Cap only knows like judo and boxing?

handbook's put cap at a seven which automatically places him in the 'every martial art in the world" category...

Cap's an extremely fast learner. He has mastered the art of subconcious training in which he trains grueling discipline even asleep. That and he assigned parts of his brain to train in his mind while he's occupied with other things in the real world......😖hifty: 🤣

Originally posted by Tshern

I'm pretty sure I understand what are you looking for here, but that logic does take out pretty much every single peak human characters' skill set. Batman, Nightwing, partially Daredevil, Captain America, Shang Chi... I suppose it is not wise to fight against it since so many characters are relying on it.

True dat. Though as I said, it's no use questioning it, Batman is said to know 127 martial arts and it's okay, Cap is said to know all, it should be okay too if it's given as a standard value in comics. But isn't there a handbook or something saying that Cap only knows like judo and boxing?

And I am applying the logic in ALL characters. Nobody at all should know that many.

I don't think Batman is a master of 127 styles. The assumption probably comes from Batgirl #7, where Batman shows BASICS of 127 styles of martial arts.
http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=2d8_batcd1b.jpg

He knows them. Nothing bad there. But a MASTER of 127 styles. Nope...

Originally posted by jinzin
handbook's put cap at a seven which automatically places him in the 'every martial art in the world" category...

And handbooks are the holy word of comic and facts...?

I think I, among others have disproven the fact not to be a fact multiple times...

Originally posted by jinzin
again... you're arguing a point that I agree with to logical extents.. i just don't agree with discarding described abilities.. look.. how do half the characters that fly fly? change trajectories? speed up or slow down? That doesn't make any sense but we take it at face value don't we?

Tacticle telekinesis.
Wings.
Usage of wind.
Mystical levitation.
Technology.

99% of flight powers, and ALL powers in comics are explained. In comic book science, magic, technology...yes, but still explained.

Learning one martial art per four and a half days hasn't been explained in any way.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And handbooks are the holy word of comic that are facts...?

I think I, among others have disproven the fact not to be a fact multiple times...

No handbooks are only good until a character out performs their stats then the feat takes precedence................

Wolverine mastering all forms of martial arts is hyperbole and probably meant to say he can fight gud, some of the best. His Marvel bio says Virtually all forms anyway..............yeah virtually.

Read Caps bio it says he uses a form of Judo and AMerican Boxing and he is a master of all styles...................BUNK his own bio refutes that possbility.

Wolverine is no Master of all forms he has NEVER shown that.

And I am applying the logic in ALL characters. Nobody at all should know that many.

I don't think Batman is a master of 127 styles. The assumption probably comes from Batgirl #7, where Batman shows BASICS of 127 styles of martial arts.
http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php...2d8_batcd1b.jpg

Edit:

Tacticle telekinesis.
Wings.
Usage of wind.
Mystical levitation.
Technology.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And handbooks are the holy word of comic that are facts...?

they are??? 🙄

Dude I was simply stating a fact which i thought should be addressed to our friend there... not implying "handbooks are the holy word of comic that are facts" so don't stuff implications in my mouth eh.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I think I, among others have disproven the fact not to be a fact multiple times...

agreed.. plenty of people have done that for mulptle aspects of various characters... But in turn it's kind of a hard thing to disprove for captain america's fighting ability.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Tacticle telekinesis.
Wings.
Usage of wind.
Mystical levitation.
Technology.

99% of flight powers, and ALL powers in comics are explained. In comic book science, magic, technology...yes, but still explained.

Learning one martial art per four and a half days hasn't been explained in any way.

All powers are not explained..

how did brue banner survive the gamma explosion to turn into a monster... yeah parts of that are explained.. and yet we know that it's B.S.

cap's master of X amount of fighting styles.. is it B.S? yup.. is it that much different from 99% of the other B.S. that goes down in comics? nope...

Originally posted by Tshern
And your logic has been virtually flawless, with some assumptions though. I just see absolutely no point in disregarding abilities given in comics, although they seem impossible to our eyes. It's clear that they haven't had the time to study all those martial arts, but I simply don't want defy the values that are given. Probably one topic that we won't agree on no matter how long we discuss it.

But it only doesn't seem to be impossible in our eyes, it would be impossible in comic book world too. For example, if a guy would walk to Captain America and say that he mastered all the martial arts in the world in five years, would Cap believe it...?

Originally posted by Tshern
A familiar scan indeed. And it sure is up to everyone's own interpretation.

It clearly doesn't prove that Batman has mastered 127 styles of combat. Only the basics. If he had shown the 127 styles completely there, all the moves and applications, I guanteree it to you, it would have taken MUCH more time then a day or two...

I think that is also the only scan where number 127 has been mentioned.

Originally posted by jinzin
All powers are not explained..

how did brue banner survive the gamma explosion to turn into a monster... yeah parts of that are explained.. and yet we know that it's B.S.

Gamma radiation turned him into a Hulk. It's been explained.

Originally posted by jinzin
cap's master of X amount of fighting styles.. is it B.S? yup.. is it that much different from 99% of the other B.S. that goes down in comics? nope...

The difference is that the 99% other B.S. has been explained...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Gamma radiation turned him into a Hulk. It's been explained.

how did he survive such amounts of radiation?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The difference is that the 99% other B.S. has been explained...

in terms that are not compatible with the world as we understand it to be...

What Jinzin is saying is this. Radation kills you, the mere fact that he was turned into the Hulk his bullshit. But that doesn't matter because no matter how stupid it is Banner is the Hulk, it can't be argued just like how Cap know ever martial art.

But it only doesn't seem to be impossible in our eyes, it would be impossible in comic book world too. For example, if a guy would walk to Captain America and say that he mastered all the martial arts in the world in five years, would Cap believe it...?

I think that is also the only scan where number 127 has been mentioned.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What Jinzin is saying is this. Radation kills you, the mere fact that he was turned into the Hulk his bullshit. But that doesn't matter because no matter how stupid it is Banner is the Hulk, it can't be argued just like how Cap know ever martial art.

thank you...