Wolverine vs. Spider-Man

Originally posted by jinzin
granted.. but how would you tell during fights? like i said comic posses are notoriously ambiguous for displayine martial arts form.. i mean that even holds true for comics like SF...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Actually, I've noticed that some comic book writers and artists do study martial arts...that's why I loved Claremont era Wolverine stories...he used his skills much often. Nowadays it's just slashing and hacking in most stories. As for Cap, it doesn't seem that he uses much anything else then blocks with his shield, american-style boxing punches, Judo type throws, and perhaps Tae Kwan Do type kicks? I have never really seen him display a wide array of different martial arts.

Perfect words, with that said: Spiderman wins

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Actually, I've noticed that some comic book writers and artists do study martial arts...that's why I loved Claremont era Wolverine stories...he used his skills much often. Nowadays it's just slashing and hacking in most stories. As for Cap, it doesn't seem that he uses much anything else then blocks with his shield, american-style boxing punches, Judo type throws, and perhaps Tae Kwan Do type kicks? I have never really seen him display a wide array of different martial arts.

oh please, don't act for a second that the well educated artists that can draw martial arts the way that martial arts should actually be presented is in the majority rather than the minority...

I don't think it's even possible to count how many times I've seen a side kick where the foot basically in a stomping position rather than knife edge as it should be...

as for cap I agree... I've yet to see him display a vast amount of different disciplines. But that doesn't change the fact that he's been stated on various occasions to know X amount of M.A. styles...

Originally posted by Arahan
Perfect words, with that said: Spiderman wins

Originally posted by jinzin
oh please, don't act for a second that the well educated artists that can draw martial arts the way that martial arts should actually be presented is in the majority rather than the minority...

I don't think it's even possible to count how many times I've seen a side kick where the foot basically in a stomping position rather than knife edge as it should be...

And I never said it was the majority. I said "some". Some artists do have very good knowledge of anatomy and fighting, especially if they have illustrated a martial artist for a long time.

Originally posted by jinzin
as for cap I agree... I've yet to see him display a vast amount of different disciplines. But that doesn't change the fact that he's been stated on various occasions to know X amount of M.A. styles...

On handbooks and...one comic where he fought Zemo?

I'd say from what I have seen, he could know five or seven at most. No mention of him learning from more then few trainers during WWII. No mention of him learning from anyone else then his Avengers buddies after that. No stories really where he practices anything else then the same fighting styles he has practiced for years.

It's pretty clear that he doesn't know all the martial arts in the world, especially where there is no mention of him never had slept, eaten or done anything else then training after super-soldier treatment.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And I never said it was the majority. I said "some". Some artists do have very good knowledge of anatomy and fighting, especially if they have illustrated a martial artist for a long time.

nor did I say you did.. i said that's the way you're acting...

"actually......"

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
On handbooks and...one comic where he fought Zemo?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It's pretty clear that he doesn't know all the martial arts in the world, especially where there is no mention of him never had slept, eaten or done anything else then training after super-soldier treatment.

it's pretty clear that it wouldn't make sense if he knew every M.A. in the world.. as to whether or not he actually does.. that's rather ambiguous...

Originally posted by jinzin
and the fact that he's pretty much adapted to and outfought everybody he ever fights.. and the fact that I don't think cap's one for lying for no apparent reason.

And outfighting your enemy means that you automatically know all the martial arts in the world? I don't think so. Cap has simply well-rounded array of martial arts that can respond to many situations.

And like I said before, Cap during his older days bragged often.

Don't actually see him fighting gifted martial artists that often either. Nowhere as close as Batman for example fights.

Originally posted by jinzin
it's pretty clear that it wouldn't make sense if he knew every M.A. in the world.. as to whether or not he actually does.. that's rather ambiguous...

Proof and common logic says so, especially as you have about...one (?) comic book evidence that he does and even that can be counted as bragging/hyperbole...out of thousands of comic book appearences which don't show that he has recieved that kind of training, travelled to places where you learn them, met any of the masters who have trained him everything they know or had the time to learn them at all.

Which is exactly why Wolverine VIRTUALLY knows all martial arts in the world....................virtually thats open for interpretation right there and not an absolute fact.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And outfighting your enemy means that you automatically know all the martial arts in the world?

no it's just one aspect that suggests captain american MIGHT not be lying...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I don't think so. Cap has simply well-rounded array of martial arts that can respond to many situations.

And like I said before, Cap during his older days bragged often.?

did he LIE often as well?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Don't actually see him fighting gifted martial artists that often either. Nowhere as close as Batman for example fights.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Proof

your assumptions and inferences about the matter can be considered proof?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
and common logic says so,

subjective logic that only applied when you want it to....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
especially as you have about...one (?) comic book evidence that he does and even that can be counted as bragging/hyperbole...out of thousands of comic book appearences which don't show that he has recieved that kind of training, travelled to places where you learn them, met any of the masters who have trained him everything they know or had the time to learn them at all.

again.. he's too busy actually handing people their asses to be shown training all the time..
There's never been anything that would suggest he couldn't learn these styles in a mystic fasion that has already been talked about...

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's just one aspect that suggests captain american MIGHT not be lying...

But not enough to show that he knows all martial arts.

Originally posted by jinzin
did he LIE often as well?

No...but bragging is basically lying.

Originally posted by jinzin
it's probably because he's too busy kicking the crap out of big level super heroe's and villians...

Once again something that doesn't show that he is a master of all martial arts. You don't need that to kick the crap out of people.

Originally posted by jinzin
your assumptions and inferences about the matter can be considered proof?

No, but he would have basically had to learn one martial art per few days, without sleep, eating or other stuff to master all martial arts for five year straight.

That's your proof right there.

Originally posted by jinzin
subjective logic that only applied when you want it to....

Nope, common logic. I apply this to all things.

Has it ever been explained where Spider-Man gets his powers? Yes. So I don't have to explain anything here.

Has it ever been even shown that Cap has

A) Trained in all martial arts?

B) Met the masters that taught him everything completely?

C) Had the time to master all martial arts?

D) Used more then few martial arts?

Nope, it hasn't. All you got is one mention in comic. Not enough to qualify that he actually has mastered them all, it's more like bragging or writers mistake.

See? Common logic. It's not hard to use.

Originally posted by jinzin
again.. he's too busy actually handing people their asses to be shown training all the time..
There's never been anything that would suggest he couldn't learn these styles in a mystic fasion that has already been talked about...

So, what you got is him not using all martial arts in the world, nor training in them...

And since USA Army didn't use magic or mystics for what I know, there wasn't anything mystic included in Captain America's training. Until you can show that there was...you don't have proof about him ever been trained OR mastering in all martial arts of the world.

And one panel of comic in eighty years of comicbook career is hardly enough to prove it.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But not enough to show that he knows all martial arts.

nope not alone.. but it does suggest that he could...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No...but bragging is basically lying.

let's try that again.. was he big on lying?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Once again something that doesn't show that he is a master of all martial arts. You don't need that to kick the crap out of people.

when you're a human fighting superhumans it helps... again it's not proof nor did I imagine that it would be I just said that for the sake of it seeing as this is becomeing as redundant as everything else in this thread.. (sigh) but i guess a sense of humor not needed in here either...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No, but he would have basically had to learn one martial art per few days, without sleep, eating or other stuff to master all martial arts for five year straight.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
That's your proof right there.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Nope, common logic. I apply this to all things.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Has it ever been explained where Spider-Man gets his powers? Yes. So I don't have to explain anything here..

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
A) Trained in all martial arts?

B) Met the masters that taught him everything completely?

C) Had the time to master all martial arts?

D) Used more then few martial arts?

as it ever shown in medical scientific fashion just how a radioactive spiderbite CAN AND WILL transform someone's abilities to be comparitive with a spider and grant them precognitive abilities?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Nope, it hasn't. All you got is one mention in comic. Not enough to qualify that he actually has mastered them all, it's more like bragging or writers mistake.

See? Common logic. It's not hard to use.

yup... subjective common logic.. got it...😉

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So, what you got is him not using all martial arts in the world, nor training in them...

And since USA Army didn't use magic or mystics for what I know, there wasn't anything mystic included in Captain America's training. Until you can show that there was...you don't have proof about him ever been trained OR mastering in all martial arts of the world.

And one panel of comic in eighty years of comicbook career is hardly enough to prove it.

what we have is an x factor surrounded by ambiguity and your assumptions based on real worl experience... hardly enough to prove he doesn't... though you certainly have enough to suggest that he doesn't...

Originally posted by jinzin
nope not alone.. but it does suggest that he could...

Not really. Heroes who don't know more then few martial arts can still defeat their opponents.

Originally posted by jinzin
let's try that again.. was he big on lying?

Bragging, yes. "I could take hundred of people like you" type of stuff, which he really couldn't.

Originally posted by jinzin
according to the world as you understand it....

not really.. again you're making an assumption based on how you understand the world as it is...

common logic having to do with the real world...

Ah, so learning a martial art completely per week is normal in comics? Got any proof?

Why do martial artists say "It took me years to perfect this technique" if learning it in a day would be completely normal? Wouldn't that make them seem stupid and slow to learn?

Common logic having to do with comic book world...you should get that straight.

Originally posted by jinzin

as it ever been explained how spidey's radioactive infection acted in a different manner than radioactivity as we know it? how about how his bone density got harder in spite of that being physically impossible?

as it ever shown in medical scientific fashion just how a radioactive spiderbite CAN AND WILL transform someone's abilities to be comparitive with a spider and grant them precognitive abilities?

The precgonitive abilities come from the mystical side of Spider-Man, didn't you read that arc of JMS/JRJR? And most of the other things come from the modified DNA.

Originally posted by jinzin
yup... subjective common logic.. got it...😉

Remove the "subjective" and you get it. ✅

Originally posted by jinzin
what we have is an x factor surrounded by ambiguity and your assumptions based on real worl experience... hardly enough to prove he doesn't... though you certainly have enough to suggest that he doesn't...

It's not really based on real world experience...it takes years to learn a martial art in comics too. Hence, the aforementioned "It took me years to perfect this technique". It simply is impossible to master one martial art per five days in comics too.

Originally posted by capt it up
no impressive at all. see her ethe thing batman fights thug who haft the time are shitting shooter while wolverien on the other hand fight trained assassins and training special ops.

also this feat owns that one
http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinev1068170in.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverinev1068183cz.jpg

That's not about speed but about being carefull. Batman can be killed by guns and Wolvie can't so Bats acts more carefull.

Is still still on ? Pfft, I thought this thread would be buried by now, but surprise surprise, it's still alive and kicking.

Another surprise : Spider-Man is STILL winning !! 🙂 My job here is finished, I am needed elsewhere...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Where has it been stated that he is master of every style on Earth? Because that is pretty much impossible, even if you had THOUSAND years. Comic book evidence, please, because handbooks state that Cap is master of every style too, and we all know that he is not.

I don't think anyone is master of so many styles. And I don't think Batman is master of 124 either.

I totally agree that even 1000 years wont be enough to become master in half of all fighting styles, but that's what people say about Bats. This is a comix after all.

Originally posted by Soleran
Cap doesn't know all martial arts. The Marvel power grid may say so but his bio specifically says otherwise.

Exactly. See, I've always had a problem with Cap saying that he was a master of every martial art on earth because, well, look at the way he fights. He combines JUDO and American BOXING into his own fighting style. If he knew EVERY SINGLE martial art on the planet, don't you think that he would find more powerful martial arts to combine into one other than judo and boxing?

Originally posted by who?-kid
Is still still on ? Pfft, I thought this thread would be buried by now, but surprise surprise, it's still alive and kicking.

Another surprise : Spider-Man is STILL winning !! 🙂 My job here is finished, I am needed elsewhere...

bump... 😛

Originally posted by Creshosk
And the biggest shocker of all, you're still deluding yourself.

Yes long story short: Spidey wins 🙂