i see where you're trying to ome from...I just don't agree with it....at all....here's the thing...wolverine being brash isn't quite accurate.... whether you meant to or not...you implied that wolverine was hasty and unthinking; or impetuous. this isn't quite his character at all....wolverine is a cunning and calculating warrior, he's great at spotting weak points and taking advantage of them and is just as good a thinker on his feet as spiderman.
But you seem to be overlooking something.... when wolverine is in a true berserker fury and does become unthinking...it doesn't hinder him...unlike other fighters or most realistic fighters his fighting ability is not contingent on his state of calm. Infact, when wolverine does start to lose it his reflexes become faster, his hits harder, his abilities as well as his healing factor increase in just about every aspect... when angry, wolverine's instincts take over...being closer to an animal than man in those regards....his anger only makes the evidence of said instincts more superb....his movements flow from one to the next with amazing grace speed and skill.....making wolverine angry isn't a good sign...but really...thus far when spidey as ticked wolverine off...it hasn't worked...not once....it only continues to work against him....on the other hand spiderman's problem solving skills deminish some due to fear...it clouds his mind, obscures his judgement, and ultimately leads to defeat....wolverine doesn't become a worse fighter or lose fighting ability when he fights deadpool and deadpool is way worse at his use of mind games than spiderman...so wolverine should be fine for this fight...
wolverine/sabretooth comparison....this really isn't all that valid....wolverine at his best is able to take down sabretooth...but sabretooth on the other hand has beaten wolverine so many times it's not even funny...a decent percentage of wolverine's wins over sabes are because sabretooth let him....sabretooth is his superior and only proved it again back in the native storyline...but sabretooth has another weapon spiderman doesn't when facing wolverine...in terms of mind games at least....sabretooth makes wolverine remember things, painful things, like the rape and death of his lover silver fox on his birthday, the weapon x expirement, ant tons of other memories false or not...it allows wolverine to think about things OTHER than those instincts and allow his emotions and thoughts to get the better of him....then sabretooth does....when wolverine just lets losse on sabretooth it's usually a different story...but I hardly think that sabretooth fights at his full...given the fact that he's laughing in half the fights he has with logan...
spiderman/venom-carnage comparison.....spiderman is neve able to pull off a defeat over thse guys without sonics, fire, help, and tons of luck.....he tried to out-think venom on an island but it didn't help against venom's raw power and instincts....all spidermn could do with his problem solving ability was to trick venom into believing he was dead...I'd hardly call that a victory....almost every time spiderman fights a symbiotic villain one on one it usually ends up looking like this before it's over....
No I hear you,most of the comparisons weren't about victory,but just outthinking. Or getting them into the fighters terms.
Wolverine is saucy, cocky, and quick to anger. He's great, however, he definitely is impetuous, but a great tactical fighter. As problem solving goes, not at all, spiderman is around batman in that aspect.
Though wolvie is more adapt at going beserk,like a barbarian, spidey's is not to shabby either. You seem to forget that spidey's villans are villans, simply because he let most of them live.An angry spidey is no differen't wanting to continue, then only realising that he makes things worse, with great power comes great responsibility.
However the way wolvie is going to have to win is by claws and a critical or fatal strike of some sort, and for that he will have to get spidey on his own terms and close him inl.
On the other hand,spidey has a greater chance of getting him on his own terms and can dodge these weapons, not as great as ocks, not saying ock is a better threat though, and counter attack him fine. Despite what people think spidey's attacks can hurt and even ko wolverine.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellHe was lying to let someone he respected off with out a bruised ego.
statistics dont favor wolvie at all he has to get spidey on his terms.Wolvie admitted to having his neck capable of being broken
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellYes, we know he's inconsistant, but we have to use him at his worse while spiderman is at his best?
He also survived, a nuke, but then gets floored by an angry cyclops, nailed across a room by dd, stunned out by a taser, and then stood up to punches from namor w/o falling hmmmmmmmmm.
And how do you explain 100% consistency in his fights with spiderman?
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellWolverine could tear through it. I've already shown that Wolverine's strength is stronger than the tensile strength of steel.
Anyway, there is something to argue, how is wolvie escaping a vehicle on top of him,
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellAnd I think that Spiderman destroying too much of another person's property being able to help it is out of character for him, it goes against his personality.
without the sufficient strengeth to remove it, and his palms are up or down rendering claws useless. Another car on top of another and another get my point.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
And wolverine's healing factor only accelerated, he can't do any special healing feats, which is why there is the skeleton. if he is webbed then drowned, he cannot regenerate his own damaged brain cells, and he needs air to breathe right.
*points to his own signature* He heals those back instantly.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellThat have been shot down before. . .
Regardless these are just some points of view and i am interested in hearing an explanation. this isn't saying you are wrong, just throwing possibilities.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellSpiderman can't do anything to him anymore. the organic webbing can't hold wolverine, and spiderman can't knock Wolverine out.
Secondly, what is the biggest problem YOU see of spidey winning this battle, explain.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellNo they can't. If they could they would have by now.
Despite what people think spidey's attacks can hurt and even ko wolverine.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3735807
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http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3735842
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And after that accident spidey whooped all over wolverines ass, I saw it posted earlier on this thread, and Cap knocking wolverine 30 feet and hurting him.
Wolverine has to get spidey to fight on his terms, not spideys, unless wolverine all the sudden got superioity on movement and wall crawling
And he can't heal his own brain cell, lost organs at all, and he can drown.
Man oh man I love those pictures! ( I don't own nearly as many comics as I've read!)
But seriously though the fact is that Spidey's not dead and wouldn't underestimate Wolvy now more than ever.
I think that many people think Spidey would lose because he's a FAIR fighter (meaning he's only fighting in self-defense or to incapacitate, rarely ever trying to kill.)
The truth is that Spider-man doesn't have to fight fair and if he simply stays out of Wolverines claw reach and just fires glob after glob of webbing, he'll eventually have the opportunity to cocoon him. It may take an hour but he doesn't HAVE TO get within striking distance ever.
It's very similar to a fighting game technique that everyone hates. Using the same move over and over because it's nigh IMPOSSIBLE to defend against. Especially when it's a glitch.
Spidey has a large supply of a projectile that wolverine CAN be COMPLETELY INCAPACITATED BY.
If Spidey were to fight up close I would have to agree that wolverine could kill him.
In the same way if a person were stupid enough to grab at a mamba with thier bare hands while they have the tool to incapacitate it, they could be killed.
Spidey isn't stupid. Wolverine can't match his manueverability (match is the key word). Wolverine can't escape a cocoon of webbing.
Almost forgot....pimp
( I got an upgrade too!)
Originally posted by jinzin
seriously...he's literally been punched out of orbit....and was fine...but spidey's gonna knock him unconsious? nu-uh.anyways.... MISTER here's my point....we've already gave plenty of reasons theories and PROOF to back them up.... so far the most consistant argument from the spidey side of things is that we should ignore the various accounts of direct comparisons that show wolverine in a combative situation against spiderman because bad writing, lack of reality, popularity, lack of consistancy, etc etc.... thus, we should be using their stats......you know this has been a huge argument from the spidey fans, that stats take priority over comic book showings....you also know this isn't how I feel....I'm just making a point here.....at this moment in time spiderman fans have to consent to one of two options...that either stats don't matter all that much because statistics factor out a lot of information and don't always factor in the most important infomormation thus it's possible for characters like batman, captain america, and dd to beat spiderman....or stick to the "stats are all that matters" or "stats matter the most" argument and concede to the fact that marvel has given wolverine better stats than spidey....we (wolverine supporters) have everything we need now...we have the comic book feats on our side, we have spiderman's own thoughts about having to deal with wolverine on our side, we have statistics on our side.....all that's left on the spidey side of the field is speculation and wishful thinking......what else is there to debate? honestly....
I'm not just imagining that Spider-man can best Wolverine. For some odd reason Spidey doesn't choose the path of least resistance when fighting cool characters.
I also agree with Wolverine ripping out of webbing before it hardens. But he would not be able to rip out of a cocoon of it because he's not strong enough.
A perfect example of Spidey not using his webbing when it could have saved him a lot of trouble is when he used to fight the Kingpin. He would knock him down over and over, complain about him not staying down, but he wouldn't web him up completly.
That doesn't make much sense to me but I'm guessing that would make the fight come to an end too quckly and nobody wants that.
As far as the stats go I still believe that they are very important and also accurate. Wolverine does bring more to a battle than Spidey because a nuke can't kill him and it might not knock him out for long.
He's practically invincible to bodily harm. Plus he's a lethal berserker who won't hesitate to kill an evil enemy. Spidey doesn't like killing and wolverine does.
All of this and wolverine is SLIGHTLY above Spider-man? C'mon man who's doing the wishful thinking?
If you can show me a picture of wolverine escaping being cocooned then I would have to say that Spidey's out matched. Wolverine isn't the only character that has torn through a little webbing by moving quickly.
[QUOTE=4082601]Originally posted by Creshosk
[B]
'And I think that Spiderman destroying too much of another person's property being able to help it is out of character for him, it goes against his personality.'
It's in no way out of Spider-man's character to fight to win. If you want him to fight with compassion while Wolverine fights with a killer instinct and berserker rage, isn't that similar to depowering? If that's the case Wolverine respects Spidey to much to use his claws. Sounds pretty silly doesn't it? Let's get real and say that they have equal motivation to kill one another and leave it at that. I'm not gonna act as a therapist for either.
'Spiderman can't do anything to him anymore. the organic webbing can't hold wolverine, and spiderman can't knock Wolverine out.'
PLease enlighten me on the differences between the organic webbing and the webbing in the webshooters. How do you know that it isn't stronger than the old webbing? If not, then why would he refrain from using his old original webshooters in THIS THREAD?
If Spidey were a monster again tomorrow in the comics then I guess we could just end this and say that a monster can't beat wolvy right?
Wolverine AND Spidey at their best has been just fine with me. What most people get frustrated with is that Wolverine at his best seems cosmic, all jokes aside. I wondered one time when I read a fight with him vs Venom why he wasn't even hurt when he was impaled on a sharp branch that was about 1 foot thick. He was still talking! At the same time I owned a comic where wolverine was knocked out by something that was odd because it wasn't that unique as far as knockout tactics go. It was in wolverine #1 if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not trying to use that as an example of weakness, but the question most people want answered is: What is wolverine at his best? Spider-man at his best can't knock out the hulk. Wolverine at his best can't survive a nuke. Both have done both.
Originally posted by who?-kidAre you blind by choice or do you really not see the times wolverine hit spiderman.
Hm, that makes.... zero fights ? In all their fights, Wolverine managed to stab Spider-Man [b]one time, and it was an accident.So much for a "clear victory" for Wolverine over Spider-Man. [/B]
Do you even know what "sheathed" means?
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellYou mis interpreted the fight, Wolverine wasn't fighting back and said that he deserved it, and he soaked up the damage like it was nothing, who was standing at the end of that encounter and who was passed out on the floor?
And after that accident spidey whooped all over wolverines ass, I saw it posted earlier on this thread, and Cap knocking wolverine 30 feet and hurting him.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellAnd there's nothing spiderman can do.
Wolverine has to get spidey to fight on his terms, not spideys, unless wolverine all the sudden got superioity on movement and wall crawling
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
And he can't heal his own brain cell, lost organs at all, and he can drown.
Originally posted by The MISTERHis organic webbing doesn't appear to be as strong, as wolverine tore out of it.
Man oh man I love those pictures! ( I don't own nearly as many comics as I've read!)But seriously though the fact is that Spidey's not dead and wouldn't underestimate Wolvy now more than ever.
I think that many people think Spidey would lose because he's a FAIR fighter (meaning he's only fighting in self-defense or to incapacitate, rarely ever trying to kill.)
The truth is that Spider-man doesn't have to fight fair and if he simply stays out of Wolverines claw reach and just fires glob after glob of webbing, he'll eventually have the opportunity to cocoon him. It may take an hour but he doesn't HAVE TO get within striking distance ever.
Originally posted by The MISTERDoesn't apply in this case, the webbing doesn't appear to be able to hold wolverine anymore.
It's very similar to a fighting game technique that everyone hates. Using the same move over and over because it's nigh IMPOSSIBLE to defend against. Especially when it's a glitch.
Originally posted by The MISTERNot anymore.
Spidey has a large supply of a projectile that wolverine CAN be COMPLETELY INCAPACITATED BY.
Originally posted by The MISTERHe doesn't have that tool anymore.
If Spidey were to fight up close I would have to agree that wolverine could kill him.In the same way if a person were stupid enough to grab at a mamba with thier bare hands while they have the tool to incapacitate it, they could be killed.
Originally posted by The MISTERFunny how he tore out of that bit in the avengers comic, eh?
Spidey isn't stupid. Wolverine can't match his manueverability (match is the key word). Wolverine can't escape a cocoon of webbing.