Spider-Man vs Batman

those are excellent examples of his scientific knowledge being used in a combat situation (this is stuff Batman does in his sleep) they are NOT examples of strategy... being a solo superhero, spider-man is not devoid of strategy, he has some... Batman, however, is the strategist supreme rivalled only by X-Men's Cyclops and the Authority's Midnighter. Spider-Man has a lot on his side in this fight, Strategy is NOT one of them. He's got ingenuity, but nowhere near on the scale of Batman. The joke is "Robin, get my anti-villain bat-spray" but the fact is that Batman has resources and ingenuity (sp?) which is simply off the charts. Spider-Man simply does not stack up here.

But, you ARE more knowledgeable than I on Spidey... (applause)... also keep in mind I never said Peter relies only on experience: just that "his intelligence doesn't factor in like Batman's does" that means it factors in, but not all the time as the decisive factor, just every once in a while, as you so eloquently pointed out... now...

Batman goes toe to toe with Daredevil who goes toe to toe with Spider-Man, all stalemates... that's the truth (at least from the crossovers I've read)... In addition Batman regularly tangles with people stronger (Bane), Faster (Catwoman) and more mobile (Man-Bat) than he is and he ranks on all of those people, except for Bane... why? Because Bane is on Batman's level as a stratgist... that's why he's the only one to beat Batman because he's the only one who ever outsmarted him...

So, you see, I'll take my Batman against anyone's spider-man simply because agility, speed and strength don't really mean that much...

and Green Goblin has nothing on Batman when it comes to chemistry...

i never knew bane was actually smart, anyhow spider-man can work a lot of people he face'd wolvie and lived(its hard to imagine him unarmed and fighting that friggin chainsaw) so i say spider-man.

Originally posted by Hypester
those are excellent examples of his scientific knowledge being used in a combat situation (this is stuff Batman does in his sleep) they are NOT examples of strategy... being a solo superhero, spider-man is not devoid of strategy, he has some... Batman, however, is the strategist supreme rivalled only by X-Men's Cyclops and the Authority's Midnighter. Spider-Man has a lot on his side in this fight, Strategy is NOT one of them. He's got ingenuity, but nowhere near on the scale of Batman. The joke is "Robin, get my anti-villain bat-spray" but the fact is that Batman has resources and ingenuity (sp?) which is simply off the charts. Spider-Man simply does not stack up here.

But, you ARE more knowledgeable than I on Spidey... (applause)... also keep in mind I never said Peter relies only on experience: just that "his intelligence doesn't factor in like Batman's does" that means it factors in, but not all the time as the decisive factor, just every once in a while, as you so eloquently pointed out... now...

Batman goes toe to toe with Daredevil who goes toe to toe with Spider-Man, all stalemates... that's the truth (at least from the crossovers I've read)... In addition Batman regularly tangles with people stronger (Bane), Faster (Catwoman) and more mobile (Man-Bat) than he is and he ranks on all of those people, except for Bane... why? Because Bane is on Batman's level as a stratgist... that's why he's the only one to beat Batman because he's the only one who ever outsmarted him...

So, you see, I'll take my Batman against anyone's spider-man simply because agility, speed and strength don't really mean that much...

and Green Goblin has nothing on Batman when it comes to chemistry...

Batman is not a super genius otherwise he'd be building things like forcefields, portals,and time machines.That is Reed Richards level.Batman is not on this level yet.And the things I mentioned about Spider-Man was not considered him being a strategist.That was prep time.Strategy is what I would use when he out thinks a person in a heat of battle without having to go home -- like traps or scheming plots.Therefore,having a person fight him on his level while completely forgetting about their own.

And Spider-Man is not equal to Daredevil in a straight fight.Daredevil mentioned this himself back in Spectacular Spider-Man #108 in the forest where Spider-Man was chasing him in.Daredevil is only a challenge when Spider-Man underestimates him -- as in treating him like your average street punk.The strongest villain I know that Spider-Man has is Morlun -- who is able to lift about 100 tons,then there's Rhino who can lift 80 tons,Sandman who lifts 70 tons,Molten Man who lifts 40 tons,Carnage who lifts about 25 tons,Lizard who lifts 12 tons,Venom who lifts 11 tons,and so on.

His fastest and most agile fighters are Electro,Venom,Carnage,Scorpion,and Lizard from what's on my head at this very second.These people are more agile than he is by the way.

The most mobile of them all has got to be the Vultures.But,unlike Mabat,these guys are durable and stronger.

in terms of all out acrobatic ability spider man/and villains that you mentioned are on a whole nother planet, batman could not react fast enuf to touch him. that alone is all that spidey needs to win

Originally posted by Domination
Y'know,the only useful thing about your message compared to lot of them that I read is the humor,and I am dead serious.From the likes of your response,you're inches away from breaking your keyboard in two.

I say about 95%,Batman has used his gadgets to bring down someone stronger than himself -- not to mention a few petty purse-snatching creeps.His belt is like a tool supply to him.Without it,he cannot disarm a person shooting at him from afar unless he has some kind of a shadow to work with.He cannot get around the city on foot alone.He cannot escape traps without his belt.The options are teeming.Mainly everything he does is done through his belt -- rather you'd like to believe it or not.Batman's belt is his weakness.

Tell me,did any of this martial arts training,years experienced,ingenuity,enlightenment and all that other garbage help him any when an unarmed Death Stroke,Longshot,or Predator villain beat him into the ground?No.I don't care what kind of training you insist on bring up here,it is not enough to aid him in a fight to someone out of his league.He can barely handle a person like Killer Croc,a lunatic like Joker,and a guy with some powdered dust name Scarecrow.But,[b]you want me to believe that he can handle somebody like Spider-Man in a fair fight,....and without his belt at that.He does not have a spider-sense nor anything else related to it,some super dupper fighting technique,and certainly no brain to that of Reed Richards or some psychic.

What Spider-Man brings to the table is a lot more than a wanna be spider-sense and a belt of manual gadgets. [/B]

yeah but that batman issue was back in the day were comics didnt make sense now with the somewhat sense of reality Batman probably could not hurt hulk no matter how hard he hit him. i think batman hits with a force of about tops of 500 pnds spiderman has a force of 10 tons.
all gadgets are useless becuase each has so many like everyone said, batman has bombs bla bla spidey has web bla bla...just post their stats and let the tale of the tape settle this

Originally posted by Hypester
those are excellent examples of his scientific knowledge being used in a combat situation (this is stuff Batman does in his sleep) they are NOT examples of strategy... being a solo superhero, spider-man is not devoid of strategy, he has some... Batman, however, is the strategist supreme rivalled only by X-Men's Cyclops and the Authority's Midnighter. Spider-Man has a lot on his side in this fight, Strategy is NOT one of them. He's got ingenuity, but nowhere near on the scale of Batman. The joke is "Robin, get my anti-villain bat-spray" but the fact is that Batman has resources and ingenuity (sp?) which is simply off the charts. Spider-Man simply does not stack up here.

But, you ARE more knowledgeable than I on Spidey... (applause)... also keep in mind I never said Peter relies only on experience: just that "his intelligence doesn't factor in like Batman's does" that means it factors in, but not all the time as the decisive factor, just every once in a while, as you so eloquently pointed out... now...

Batman goes toe to toe with Daredevil who goes toe to toe with Spider-Man, all stalemates... that's the truth (at least from the crossovers I've read)... In addition Batman regularly tangles with people stronger (Bane), Faster (Catwoman) and more mobile (Man-Bat) than he is and he ranks on all of those people, except for Bane... why? Because Bane is on Batman's level as a stratgist... that's why he's the only one to beat Batman because he's the only one who ever outsmarted him...

So, you see, I'll take my Batman against anyone's spider-man simply because agility, speed and strength don't really mean that much...

and Green Goblin has nothing on Batman when it comes to chemistry...

Originally posted by venomfan
yeah but that batman issue was back in the day were comics didnt make sense now with the somewhat sense of reality Batman probably could not hurt hulk no matter how hard he hit him. i think batman hits with a force of about tops of 500 pnds spiderman has a force of 10 tons.
all gadgets are useless becuase each has so many like everyone said, batman has bombs bla bla spidey has web bla bla...just post their stats and let the tale of the tape settle this

Originally posted by Domination

Obviously,you know nothing about Parker if you believe he only relies on experience in a fight instead of his ingenuity.One of the books I have right infront of my face is Marvel Tales:The Sensational Spider-Man #194 where he creates a stabilizer gun to defeat a person called Equinox.Another is Amazing Spider-Man #34 where he takes a drop of Morlun's blood and studies how to break down his DNA to where he would become weak.The other is Amazing Spider-Man #54 where he fights a guy called Digger;he studies his DNA and makes a anti-serum that causes his gamma powered body to break down and explode.Do you want me to go on,cause I will?Point is,Peter is a genius -- not only in science (that just happen to be his favorite subject) but in a vast sum of intellectual areas,including strategist.What he knows but is no real genius or master of is criminology and martial arts.He only knows just above average in those areas.You need to really stop watching the twisted movie version and pay more attention to the comic.There is reason,you know,that he was able to crack the code to develop his own [b]synthetic webs to that of any scientist and was able to score the highest of the highest grade point average in the history of high schools. [/B]

yah i saw the way batman won, trust me i think hulk is infinitley over rated all out brawn is nothing i think you should post batmans bio or stats and then compare this would be the best way to judge this thread. dont leave out any details this isnt either bats or spider man its just what im talking about

Appearance
Height: 6' 3"
Weight: 260 lbs
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Reddish Blond
Features: As Venom, Brock has an elongated jaw, teeth, and tongue which are really part of the alien costume
Summary
Created By: David Michelinie, Todd McFarlane, Symbiote Costume created by, Tom DeFalco, Ron Frenz, Brett Breeding
Real Name: Edward "Eddie" Brock
Current Aliases: None
Former Aliases: None
Dual Identity: Known to local authorites
Current Occupation: Mad killer bent on revenge
Former Occupation: Journalist for the Daily Globe, short stint as a Vigilante between murdering sprees
Citizenship: United States of America
Legal Status: Criminal record in U.S.
Place of Birth: San-Francisco, California
Marital Status: Divorced
Known Relatives: Carol Brock (father), Anne Weying (ex-wife, deceased in Amazing v.2 #19), Mary Brock (younger sister, mentioned in Nova v.3 #6-7)
Known Confidants: "Beck"
Known Allies: Spider-Man, Morbius, Vengeance
Major Enemies: Spider-Man, Carnage, Life Foundation, Juggernaut, Scarlet-Spider, Jury
Usual Bases: New York City (again)
Former Bases: New York City, San-Francisco, California
Current Groups: None
Former Groups: None
Education: BA in Journalism
Powers & Paraphenalia
Strength Level: 11 tons under optimal contditons
Powers: Brock's powers stem from his symbiotic relationship with the alien that serves as his costume. The symbiote can mimic any type of clothing whatsoever, as well as blending Venom in his surroundings, rendering him invisible. The symbiote has augmented all of Brock's physical abilities to superhuman levels equal to, and in some cases greater than, Spider-Man's.
Abilities: Venom also possesses the ability to adhere to most sufaces. Venom can animate any part of his costume and can fire a web-like substance from his hands. Because the symbiote was previously attached to Peter, it knows how to shield itself from Spider-Man's spider-sense.
Equipment: None
Weapons: None
Limitations: The symbiote is extremely sensitive to sonic and thermal attacks.
Background
It all started with a simple mistake. While participating in the first Secret Wars, Spider-Man really trashed his costume. He came across two other heroes who earlier had similar problems and told him there was a wondrous machine capable of making any article of clothing you can think of. Unfortunately for poor Spidey, they neglected to tell him where to find it. Spider-Man did find a device that he thought looked like "it wants to make a costume". It produced a small, black ball that initially set off his spider-sense as he picked it up. The ball oozed over the confused hero and became a black costume. Spider-Man wore the costume for a few months, enjoying the fact that it produced its own webbing and could change to mimic his civilian clothes.
This all came to an end when Spider-Man discovered his nifty new threads were actually an alien symbiote trying to bond to him permanently. Mr. Fantastic separated the two with his "sonic blaster" and captured the symbiote for study. It should be noted that during the period that Spider-Man wore the alien costume, there was evidence that the symbiote somehow fed on his adrenaline. The costume escaped and rejoined Spider-Man briefly, but the hero tried to kill the symbiote using the noise from a church's bell tower. The plan worked too well, and the symbiote saved Spidey's life before hiding itself in the church.
The other half of this future combo, Eddie Brock, was the star investigative reporter for the Daily Globe. Eddie was a particularly driven man driven to seek the approval of his stone-hearted father. It stands to reason that when his biggest score--a man confessing to be the then-active Sin-Eater--was exposed as a fraud when the real Sin-Eater was captured by Spider-Man, Brock went a little over the edge. The paper fired him, his father disowned him, and his marriage ended. Brock's mind locked onto Spider-Man as the source of all his woes and thus began Brock's burning hatred of the Wall-Crawler. But life continued to deal harshly with Brock, and soon he decided to commit suicide. Stopping by a church to pray before he did the fateful deed, Brock's intense hatred of Spider-Man was noticed by the symbiote who had been hidden there since its last confrontation with Spider-Man. The two bonded and became Venom.
Venom has battled Spider-Man, and anyone else who gets in his way, numerous times since then. Brock sees himself as a hero, protecting innocents from the "evil" Spider-Man. Venom desperately hates his "son", Carnage, who he sees as a perversion of all that he is. In truth Venom has acted as a hero on several occasions, but he believes anyone he sees as "evil" should die, and this puts him in the same dubious category as the Punisher. He still hates Spider-Man, but for a while regarded him as a necessary evil since the Wall-Crawler also protects the "innocent". Venom served a homeless community of "under people" in San Francisco as their "protector" for a while but make no mistake: that Venom was insane. Shortly after that, Venom had an epic struggle with the returned Spider-Clone, Ben Reilly, who was Scarlet Spider at the time and managed to separate Brock and the symbiote.
After being rejoined, Venom's killer instincts surfaced once again, and little by little he became a threat to innocent people as well. He acquired selective amnesia (Brock no longer remembers Peter is Spider-Man, and the symbiote doesn't seem to make any effort to remind him of that). Brock absorbed Cletus Kasady's symbiote (who then found another one) and joined the Sinister Six shortly after the reboot. But he soon regretted it and then tried to kill his former teammates. He left Sandman near death, after biting a great chunk out of him, and attacked Electro, leaving him also for dead. He made some sort of peace with Spidey (again), only to foolishly blame him for something as farfetched as his wife's suicide. When the powerful human/alien hybrid known as Senator Ward, Venom lost his chance for revenge, since Ward split Brock and the symbiote apart (again).

POST SPIDERMAN AND BATMANS BIO

Originally posted by batmanrules
wtf? what batman brings to the table is a shit load of stuff. didnt u read where i put what spiderman is going up against. spidermans only holds as a super hero. advanced knowledge, superstrengh, enhanced reflexes, enhanced speed, webbing and a spidersense. all of it can be matched with something of batmans, skills. knowledge - useless against bruce waynes knowledge. superstrength - also useless since batman beat up hulk(without gadgets) who is much more then 10 x stronger then spiderman. enhanced reflexes - also useless seeing as how batman knows ALL 127 different forms of major combat(which i would rather have over enhanced reflexes). webbing - useless, since batman has acids which im sure as hell can melt webbing, and also useless because of batmans skills with a bolas. enhanced speed - this one spiderman has the advantage, but batman has dissapeared before martian manhuthers mind before, so that manhunter found himself talking to himself in his head, thats gotta be something. go back and read it. im losing confidence in what you know about batman.

OMG! Your debate is based on total garbage.Batman has nothing,and I mean nothing to deal with the things he has to face.

If Spider-Man's knowledge is sooooooo useless to Batman's knowledge,then what possible chance did Predator have?Why don't you answer that question instead of beating around the bush.

Batman beat the Hulk,yes,but the entire issue was total bullcrap for two reasons... The Hulk can take war heads to the body and even a freakin' nuke;Spider-Man has even said it himself that even when hitting Hulk with full force (with punches that could turn cars into jello),he would not even feel it,and this was a VERY old issue of the Hulk.Yet,BATMAN (a normal guy) was able to break this barrier with a stiff kick to the stomach.But,just moments into the fight,the author is showing Batman using pressure points on the Hulk that doesn't do as much as make the big guy blink wrong but then shows us later that a stiff kick does...infact,it makes him gasp for air and GAS takes him out.Hulk can not be weakned or KO'd by some freakin' gas because his system flushes anything harmful to his body straight out in seconds.This writer either didn't know a thing about Hulk or he was on some heavy stuff when he came to work that morning.DC is always trying to make Batman out as some god.In every crossover I've seen him in with a Marvel character,not once has DC made him look bad.The majority of his victories were handed to him.Batman cannot beat the Hulk and he never could.So you might as well throw the "Batman beat Hulk" story out the window.

Do you mine telling me what 127 styles is going to do to a person that can act without thinking?Do you even know what a reflex is?

involuntary/reflex:not subject to conscious control; unconscious or automatic.not determined by choice, will, or desire.

Spider-Man's "reflexes" are 40x that of a human.He can dodge gun fire at about two feet away.Do you really THINK any one of Batman's punches is able to travel 1,500 feet per second before Spider-Man has already gotten the warning and moved before the thought of hitting him is fully passed through his brain?He could dodge several blows,web you,and hit you about three or four times without even having to make one conscious move of his own.A normal human would only flinch or throw their hands in the air -- hoping to brace or block a single blow.You're talking about a guy that could move completely out of the way to something as fast as a bullet atlease a hundred times.

Umm...what if Batman's face gets glued or his utility belt or his cape to the ground or his hand to his belt?Do you mine telling me how "acid" is going to get him out of this situation?If he plans on burning his face off or cutting his face up,that would be his only hope.If you can't picture this,just think of a person throwing tar in your face or on you that instantly dry faster than crazy glue but acts as an unbreakable mozzarella cheese.How much of this stuff do you really think you'll be able to pull from your face or your body before it begins taking your skin with it or just plain tiring you out -- not to mention that second you have to defend and free yourself before its light out?

And please,...do tell me,....what in the hell is a darn bola going to do to Spider-Man?You must have circus on your mind either that or Tarzan cause a bola isn't going to do much of anything except getting you knocked out a lot quicker.Kraven has the majority of these weapons plus his enhanced abilities,and it took him several times to bring Spider-Man down.

What is Batman running going to do to Spider-Man?So what,Martian lost the dude.Big deal.If he flees the fight,he loses.If he tries sneaking up behind him -- hoping to pull the same disappearing act in which he used on Martian's telepathy but only to Spider-Man's spider-sense,Spider-Man will still spot him because the spider-sense does not just work on mentally thought out dangers;it works on all threats,even if the threat isn't considered a dangerous threat to him.For instance,if a pillow was placed over a doorway as a trap if the door is open,his spider-sense will be triggered.If a friend tried to surprise him from behind as a part of a joke,his spider-sense will be triggered.If he was going to bump into something/someone or vice-versa on the street without knowing he would,his spider-sense will be triggered,and I'm not talking about meeting someone neither.Batman disguising himself as a civilian to where he can get close to Spider-Man to study him more,his spider-sense will be triggered.Batman cannot sneak up on him in any way without setting it off because it acts as a radar as well as an early sense for dangers.In short,it reacts to potential and immediate threats.Therefore,running is of any good.Now,if Batman decides to fight him,that is when "speed" will be used -- as well as agility and reflex.

Like I said before,Spider-Man brings way too much to the table for Batman to cope with without some kind of prep time.

Okay, you Spidey fans are obviously disconnected from reality... which I guess is good, especially for comic book fans... but check it:

Domination: You have made some wrong assumptions because, to put it simply, you are not a Batman fan, therefore you don't know what you're talking about. Batman is indeed a supergenious. He is not a world-class inventor for several reasons, and even though he has access to Kryptonian, Martian and Futuristic technologies 24/7, he doesn't use them, even in Gotham. He probably considers them weaknesses since he knows how to get around each and every one of them. They are not absolute and therefore he doesn't rely on them. And looks down on (and defeats if need be) those that do... to reiterate: Batman doesn't need super gadgets, he just needs good gadgets for super-people. Also, Batman is always underestimated, Spider-Man would never, on his most wise day, Assume that Batman is the monstrous mind that he is... there would never be any reason to... until spider-man is defeated of course...

Venomfan: You say Batman can't react fast enough, but I say you're wrong. Kingpin, Kraven, Mysterio... all of these guys are 99.9% human, and Spider-Man has trouble with them all, once AGAIN, Agility is not everything.
And that Hulk crossover is Batman at his finest. That's what Batman DOES, he does something very logical (stiff kick to abdomen that will get him to gasp in the bat-gas) that produces an otherwise illogical effect (Batman beats the Hulk)... Things like that is why we say Batman can beat Spider-Man, cuz there's always a way...

Domination: You are SO playing down all of Batman's strengths... you actually have the unmitigated GALL to bring up Kraven? First of all, Kraven loses for the same reason every villain loses: they're the villain. Tell me, how many of Spider-Man's villains have truly defeated him? How many of Batman's? Superman's? I can only count a very few: Doomsday, Bane... Kraven. If you read K's Last Hunt, he had his way with Spider-Man. Had. His. Way. Goblin terrorized Peter, Octopus beat him up pretty bad, But Kraven had his WAY with the boy... no other villain has buried Spider-Man... because they rely on the super-powers which are eventually overcome by Spider-Man's ingenuity.

And so, when Spidey goes to fight Batman, he gets his own medicine. He underestimates, gets his webbing melted and, while relying on his powers to pull him through (agility and webbing) Batman's superior strategy and ingenuity will level him. Just like it did Hulk. And Captain America (exaggeration), and Superman, and Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern, and Flash, and Aquaman, and Martian Manhunter, and Plastic Man and Prometheus, and Bane, and Killer Croc, and Man-Bat... (insert physically superior character here)... and just like Spidey does to all his physically superior villains...

p.s. (YOUR Batman might lose, the one that throws batarangs and runs up and punches people... yes, the Movie Batman, TV Batman, etc would call get trounced by the comic version of Spider-Man, but I know the Comic version of Batman, and he always does what you don't expect, that's what makes him fun to read, and that's why you telling me how Spider-Man will overcome this and that is pointless, because Batman's already thought of that and thought of a way to overcome it...)

Okay, you Spidey fans are obviously disconnected from reality... which I guess is good, especially for comic book fans... but check it:

Domination: You have made some wrong assumptions because, to put it simply, you are not a Batman fan, therefore you don't know what you're talking about. Batman is indeed a supergenious. He is not a world-class inventor for several reasons, and even though he has access to Kryptonian, Martian and Futuristic technologies 24/7, he doesn't use them, even in Gotham. He probably considers them weaknesses since he knows how to get around each and every one of them. They are not absolute and therefore he doesn't rely on them. And looks down on (and defeats if need be) those that do... to reiterate: Batman doesn't need super gadgets, he just needs good gadgets for super-people. Also, Batman is always underestimated, Spider-Man would never, on his most wise day, Assume that Batman is the monstrous mind that he is... there would never be any reason to... until spider-man is defeated of course...

I might not be a hardcore Bat fan,but I do know quite a bit about Batman...more than you think I would,and I know that he's no Reed Richards or psychic as you are making him out to be.

And why would Spider-Man want to assume how "monstrous" Batman's mind is to defeat him?Does this help him in a fight?When Death Stroke kicked Batman around,did you really think he was trying to first find out how "monstrous" Batman's mind was before he leveled him?No.His intentions were to level him,and he did just that.Batman's mind is only "monstrous" when he's preparing himself.

Venomfan: You say Batman can't react fast enough, but I say you're wrong. Kingpin, Kraven, Mysterio... all of these guys are 99.9% human, and Spider-Man has trouble with them all, once AGAIN, Agility is not everything.
And that Hulk crossover is Batman at his finest. That's what Batman DOES, he does something very logical (stiff kick to abdomen that will get him to gasp in the bat-gas) that produces an otherwise illogical effect (Batman beats the Hulk)... Things like that is why we say Batman can beat Spider-Man, cuz there's always a way...

Dude,can you even begun to tell me who the Hulk is?Obviously,you can't judging by the way you are describing him.The way you see it,Batman is able to punch through a tank,and Hulk can get a paper-cut.

As for the guys you mentioned above that is in Spider-Man's league,I can already tell by your writing that you probably got your information from either a cartoon series,bio chart,or from someone on a message board.The writer himself has already said that King Pin is only equal to Spider-Man in hand combat if Spider-Man holds back tremendously with most of his spider powers.

Kraven is about Spider-Man's equal,...if you knew anything about him at all.He took a serum called an herbal jungle potion that increases all of his abilities to that of the top wild animals😖peed of a cheetah,strength of an elephant,sight of a hawk,agility and balance of a lion,stamina/smell/hearing of a dog,etc... Without this,he was not able to defeat Spider-Man.I can show you an issue where he tries to face Spider-Man without this formula,and Spider-Man literally toys with him (thinking that he's a super powered villain as Kraven tries his damnest to hit 'em) and Spider-Man KO's him with one clean uppercut to his mouth that sends Kraven soring atlease 15 to 20 feet way as he sets completely outcold against a tire,and all of this was seconds AFTER he just got done beating the crap out of Doc Ock.The story where Kraven buries Spider-Man is when he took the Serum.If you don't believe me,look it up for yourself.

Mysterio never fights Spider-Man hand to hand.Why do you think they call him Mysterio?The guy only faces you with holographic images that may or may not be real -- depends on what he's actually trying to do to you,which could be an entire city or a needle on the floor or maybe even your worst fear.He uses this to negate or overwhelm the spider-sense or the person,period,into thinking that they're in trouble to where he can unleash the real thing.That is the only way he fights.The last time he tried without this,Spider-Man cleaned his clock in one blow.

Domination: You are SO playing down all of Batman's strengths... you actually have the unmitigated GALL to bring up Kraven? First of all, Kraven loses for the same reason every villain loses: they're the villain. Tell me, how many of Spider-Man's villains have truly defeated him? How many of Batman's? Superman's? I can only count a very few: Doomsday, Bane... Kraven. If you read K's Last Hunt, he had his way with Spider-Man. Had. His. Way. Goblin terrorized Peter, Octopus beat him up pretty bad, But Kraven had his WAY with the boy... no other villain has buried Spider-Man... because they rely on the super-powers which are eventually overcome by Spider-Man's ingenuity.

And so, when Spidey goes to fight Batman, he gets his own medicine. He underestimates, gets his webbing melted and, while relying on his powers to pull him through (agility and webbing) Batman's superior strategy and ingenuity will level him. Just like it did Hulk. And Captain America (exaggeration), and Superman, and Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern, and Flash, and Aquaman, and Martian Manhunter, and Plastic Man and Prometheus, and Bane, and Killer Croc, and Man-Bat... (insert physically superior character here)... and just like Spidey does to all his physically superior villains...

p.s. (YOUR Batman might lose, the one that throws batarangs and runs up and punches people... yes, the Movie Batman, TV Batman, etc would call get trounced by the comic version of Spider-Man, but I know the Comic version of Batman, and he always does what you don't expect, that's what makes him fun to read, and that's why you telling me how Spider-Man will overcome this and that is pointless, because Batman's already thought of that and thought of a way to overcome it...) [/B]

I can point out many times where Spider-Man NEVER defeated a villain.What you're trying to do is raise the bar by throwing a useless comment in writing to justify Batman's place in this fight.

Batman only had plans to beat the JLA because he was a regular member to them for over ten years.He knew their weaknesses and the way each individual thunk.As for the Hulk,you didn't even read the issue;you're basically taking my word for.The day Batman lifts the moon is the day I'll believe that a normal human can hurt the Hulk.Until then,your resources are garbage.And Batman beat Cap,yes,in the DC & Marvel crossover that was judged by fans and not the writers.But,if you want to go that route,then I'm quite sure Wolverine can beat Lobo,Storm can beat Wonder Woman,and Spider-Man mopping the floor with Superboy...making all of them easily targets for a normal human. 🙂 Now,if you're talking about the Avenger/JLA fight (which was an actual portrayal of the two),Batman admitted to defeat against Captain America (someone just a little above human level whom intellect is clearly beneath the area of Peter Parker).tsk tsk tsk 😆

Honestly,I really think you guys are all getting too much bent out of shape by a couple of fictional characters that arent even real,thats why I quit when I was ahead because I realised if I continued,I would start becoming obsessive like you all have become over this. 😄

wow... long posts make longer ones... lemme see what we can do here... On the intelligence bit, Batman has combat-oriented intelligence, so where as Reed or Xavier may (or may not be) more intelligent, Batman transfers all of his sizable intelligence into every fight directly and instantly. But good point, no one is as smart as Reed Richards (with the possible exception of Manga Reed Richards, or Ultimate Reed Richards...)

Deathstroke had a chance against Batman because he didn't underestimate him, had nothing to do with intentions.

I didn't know the serum Kraven took was so regularly taken or so powerful, consider me educated... But, the end result is the same, for whatever reason (you gave some good ones) normal humans can hang with Spider-Man. Batman finding one of those reasons, to me, is inevitable.

Which comment was useless? Was it the one that mentions how Batman outthinks all of his oppenents? Was it the one how Batman is smarter and weaker than Spidey just like Spidey is smarter and weaker than Venom? Sounds particularly useful to me... in fact, they sound like the nail in the coffin.

In JLA vs Avengers, Batman actually said, after a few moments battle with Capt. Am "It's conceivable that you could defeat me, Avenger." Which can be interpreted a number of ways. Conceding defeat is a long stretch. It's a LOT closer to "You've got a chance" than "you've got a victory." This is someone peter reverences, btw 🙂 I could do more details, but you really are trying to downplay the fact that Batman has overcome a massive number of enemies who are physically his superior because he outthinks him and puts circumstances in his favor, just like Spider-Man, except Batman is a LOT better at it cuz it's all he does.

Batman rocks, guys, admit it...

i dont know pal, the crossover made a hell of alot of sense to me. hulk isnt exacly a thinker, infact hes as dumb as a boot (green hulk) hes just as aggressive as, dare i say, wolverine. and as strong as superman. batman did a great deal of thinking during that fight, and took hulk down with a single blow.

So what you're saying is because Hulk is as dumb as a boot,he is as vulnerable as one as well,right?Don't make me laugh.If Hulk has about the same durability as Supes,that can also mean that Batman can hurt Supes with his bare hands as well,am I right?The same goes with gas,if,as you say,is true about Hulk being hurt by it.

And what great deal of thinking did he do?The room filled with gas and he kicks Hulk in the stomach.WOW! No one has ever done this before! 😮 The more I set and listen to you,the more ridiculous your messages become.The way it seems,you have no other resources pertaining to super villains or heroes to describe the feats Batman has been able to accomplish physically without cheating his way to the top.Therefore,you are reduced to digging for scraps and leftovers (even if it is considered garbage writing) to allow him a spot in higher leagues.I don't have to dig for any of this when it comes to Parker's intellect or his physical level because what he does is in damn near every....single....book....he is in.The majority of the things he do is never contradicted and omitted from his character a few other issues down the line.

Originally posted by batmanrules
what the hell? i dont think u can push any knowledge in spidermans direction in this fight. batmans not just scored the highest grade point in high schools ( probably just d.c world ) but they where euripion highschools and colledges and univercitys, which he came out on top of his class in ALL of them. u put he created a stabilizer gun to deveat equinox. who gives a damn? batman has all kinds of these crazy gadgets already packed in his belt. and the DNA stuff on Morlun and this Digger fellow, i have to also say to, who gives a damn? batmans the worlds greatest detective. he solves this kind of stuff all the time. im still not sure if u know jack about batman anymore, u seem to be a little overconfedent with your buddy spiderman. even i still think spiderman has a good chance. but theres to much batman holds against him, thats why im rooting for batman.

Holy sweet heavens,the people that comes to these boards these days. 😕 You sound overly envious of the Parker kid's intellect.I never said he was smarter than Bruce or as smart as he was.I said he's not too far behind.What I gave is when Peter FIRST got out of high school and how he IS able to use his head as well as his muscles in a fight.He's out of college now and is a teacher himself,one of the smartest,if I may add.He doesn't have to build some cave or car to intrigue me.The way I see it,he's smart enough.But,if a dumb dope like Jordy or Croc is able to smash the Batman into oblivion,why can't a person as smart as Peter do this very same thing,especially since he's done this,lord knows how may times,to intelligent people that are actually smarter than Batman,are as smart as him,and are almost as smart as him?Y'know what I believe,though?I believe you don't want to see this happening because Perter's a kid compared to Bruce,and that Bruce has worked so hard to get where he is today to just to a....well,kid. What you lean on for your comfort of confidence in the character is his intelligence,because without this,he would be basically nothing.

Although Spider-Man is Marvel's most versatile fighters,he can still be outsmarted by the most intelligent or the less intelligent,most powerful and less powerful of fighters,but he is still able to take most of these people the majority or even half the time on atlease on one of these levels.

What YOU people believe is that Batman can take people like Superman or equal to them in a grudge match and can't be outsmarted by no one with an IQ of less than his own unless you're the Joker when his very same villains are the ones doing these very samethings to him every single day in his own books.

Deathstroke had a chance against Batman because he didn't underestimate him, had nothing to do with intentions.

Then you have officially answered the very same question in which you've been denying for the pass couple days,which I have already stated:Batman cannot defeat Spider-Man UNLESS Spider-Man underestimates him.Leaving me to clarify that small statement for those of you who cannot muster its meaning...

Inorder for Batman to win a straight fight with Spider-Man,Spider-Man would have to underestimate him.This does not mean Batman can beat Spider-Man,however.It just means he is able to beat Spider-Man at that given time.Now,if it were Spider-Man in a situation where he wasn't in the mood for a lengthy fight,therefore not underestimating/toying with Batman first before taking him serious,then Batman will lose.This would be considered a DC vs Marvel crossover.It is both fighters at their best,and Batman can not beat Spider-Man at his best.

I didn't know the serum Kraven took was so regularly taken or so powerful, consider me educated... But, the end result is the same, for whatever reason (you gave some good ones) normal humans can hang with Spider-Man. Batman finding one of those reasons, to me, is inevitable.

It isn't regularly taken.It lasts for awhile,...possibly even part of his DNA now,I'm quite sure it is.And it is not a normal serum.It is made by a witch doctor over in Africa or something.Kraven is able to run/climb skyscrapers to the very peak with his bare hands and even sniff out Peter miles away,discovering his secret identity.That is one of the reasons he was able to beat him.

Which comment was useless? Was it the one that mentions how Batman outthinks all of his oppenents? Was it the one how Batman is smarter and weaker than Spidey just like Spidey is smarter and weaker than Venom? Sounds particularly useful to me... in fact, they sound like the nail in the coffin.

You mention every villain losing to a good guy due to them being a villain to begin with.It was your way of saying,"Spider-Man can not beat Batman because Batman isn't a villain",which makes all of his victories with villain irrelevant.

In JLA vs Avengers, Batman actually said, after a few moments battle with Capt. Am "It's conceivable that you could defeat me, Avenger." Which can be interpreted a number of ways. Conceding defeat is a long stretch. It's a LOT closer to "You've got a chance" than "you've got a victory." This is someone peter reverences, btw 🙂 I could do more details, but you really are trying to downplay the fact that Batman has overcome a massive number of enemies who are physically his superior because he outthinks him and puts circumstances in his favor, just like Spider-Man, except Batman is a LOT better at it cuz it's all he does.

Batman rocks, guys, admit it... [/B]

I hate to disappoint you but KURT the writer clarified this in the bombarded mail he got pertain to this small quote.Its was somewhere alone the lines of he was hoping the fans would figure it out themselves or something to that affect.

Anyway,Batman has had to cheat to defeat a high level opponent -- either with prep time of him already being aware of their weakness.

cant you guys just post thier abilites nothing else how much can batsy lift all his gadgets on hand(not somthin he whips up for a special occasion)spideys gadgets, if hes rockin the ben rieley suit of course.and i know how batman one here it is...still s like dc made everything in this issue but thats beside the point

Now isn't that ridiculous?That has got to be the worst portrayal of the Hulk ever.