Jla vs X-men

Any lead pipe moving at the speed of light would vaporize almost instanly due to friction, which would happen as soon as the object left the Flash's "magical speed-force thing."

Also how could the Flash run up a bunch of sand particles thrown up into the air? I don't care how fast you can move you can't run up a bunch of falling sand particles. The Flash has way more mass which means the sand particles would just be pushed down faster and out of the way giving the Flash no actual lift up. (I know it happened in the comic, but thats just plain stupid)

No object with mass can move at the speed of light anyway considering the law which states "an object's mass increases exponentially towards infinity as it approaches the speed of light."

Note the term "approaches" - used because, again, no object with mass can travel at the speed of light.

This includes the lead pipe, by the way.

yeah but DCcomics science is different. In a recent JLA comic I read, the flash was taking on a speedster with superman class strength, Flash mentioned that stuff about infinite mass approaching light speed and punched him across the planet and said'I think he felt that'.

So flash used his infinite mass in levering his punch

Matters not which X-Man lineup you are using considering the one I am using includes Phoenix. What is the point of this rather childish t!t for tat? Are someone's feelings actually hurt that Phoenix (Jean Grey AND Rachel) would own the JLA by themselves? The JLA CLASSIC lineup is not weak, it just so happens that Phoenix is damn powerful, and she happens to be an X-Man.

It's got nothing to do with that. I stated eariler than it was possible for the JLA Vs X-Men match-up to go many ways. One of them I was refering to was if Phoenix was not present.

WHAT!? LoL, Superman is NOT invulnerable in his current incarnation. Hello, kryptonite? Hello, magic? Hello anyone with sufficient power? Or shall we say "Superman is invulnerable but...? Kind of diminishes the term "invulnerable," does it not?

Negative. Kryptonite strips him of his powers, I.e Invulnerability, and magic is a form of attack he is not Invulnerable too. This does not diminish the fact that he Invulnerable to everything else. You can be Invulnerable to fire, yet not ice. It does not mean you can't die.

Hello anyone with sufficient power?

I clearly stated why anyone with sufficient power can get past his Invulnerability. Through wearing down his solar reserves, he no longer possesses this trait.

Captain Marvel also knocked Superman the hell out in Grant Morrison's run on JLA. Knocked him out cold.

Since when does being knocked out mean you're hurt?

Doomsday battle? Cannot be hurt? Er, was he not bleeding during this battle? His solar reserves were not even remotely CLOSE to being depleted. Wowzers, did anyone here read "Kingdom Come?" Recall the part where Shazam said...well, "Shazam?" Superman was on his knees, smoking. "Shazam!" Superman was bleeding from his ears. "Shazam!" Superman was bleeding from his nose. So much for that quite flawed posit that "he cannot be hurt."

Shazam? Is that not the guy with the magic. Doomsday battle? Is there fact stating they were not depleted, or close to being depleted?

Is THANOS invulnerable?

Does he need to be? Supreme durability mean he can take it. If Phoenix possesses this trait also, then why didn't you just say. I'm not trying to dispute any facts here, but I presumed being a human/mutant she wouldn't be far more resistant to attack than normal.

"Invulnerable" is quite the misnomer as it is used in comics.

Indeed. But not in this case.

Is Loki invulnerable? Is Galactus invulnerable? Is Dr. Strange invulnerable? Is Mephisto invulnerable?

Never said they were.

Rogue is "invulnerable," Magneto is not. Care to guess who would hand the other her ass in a battle? Invulnerability has zero bearing on the outcome of a battle between Phoenix and the JLA.

Different circumstances between Magneto and Rogue. And since when did I say because someone was Invulnerable they would win?

I clearly stated that Superman can lose his Invulnerability.

It's not a possibility. She's a telepath. Her telepathy has been magnified infinitely per the Phoenix Force.

So you're saying she can read minds at the speed of light? Yes?

Prove it - and you did say, quote, "far far more." Willing to bet you will be quite surprised.

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Maze/8681/jla.html

Current, Reserve, Former, and Honorary. Total= 48

X-Men;

Yet to find a list that's accurate. 🙁 If you know of a place with something like that setup, post away. I've seen a few sites with lists, but each had other members included which the other had not.

However, my statement of far far more is definitely wrong. I had absolutely no idea the JLA had so many members. I'd be willing to bet on far more though. 😉

Also how could the Flash run up a bunch of sand particles thrown up into the air? I don't care how fast you can move you can't run up a bunch of falling sand particles. The Flash has way more mass which means the sand particles would just be pushed down faster and out of the way giving the Flash no actual lift up. (I know it happened in the comic, but thats just plain stupid)

Uh-huh. Mind providing scientific fact to backup your claim? I find it pretty obvious this is the case, but weirder things have happened. Especially since this is the speed of light we're talking about.

No object with mass can move at the speed of light anyway considering the law which states "an object's mass increases exponentially towards infinity as it approaches the speed of light." Note the term "approaches" - used because, again, no object with mass can travel at the speed of light. This includes the lead pipe, by the way.

Well it's the comics. Not everything is proven with scientific fact, you theorize why you think it's happened, but it's doubtful it's correct.

It's like the Hulk. Since when did people turn green, with super-strength because of an odd genetic DNA makeup, and exposure to gamma radiation.

LoL, this is going nowhere. With Phoenix in the lineup, JLA loses. That is my only point.

Superman is not invulnerable to everything else. Jesus God. Is Superman invulnerable to telepathic attacks, for example? The power cosmic? Concussive blasts? As I stated, invulnerability, when used in reference to comic book characters, does NOT mean that a character is impervious to ALL physical attacks. Can Superman TODAY survive a direct hit from nuke? NO, fully powered or not.

I also stated that ROGUE is invulnerable. Binary knocked her ass into orbit with ONE punch, and she (Rogue) was about to get her ass handed to her until the other X-Men intervened. Invulnerability, if nothing else, gives one an IDEA of how much physical punishment a certain character can absorb. Nothing more.

Dark Phoenix, for example, would INCINERATE Superman - absolutely DEMOLISH him. Let him marinate in the sun for 20 years and she would STILL dismiss him with just a thought. It has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with his "solar reserves."

Getting knocked out does not necessarily mean you are hurt. Superman is not impervious to physical injury. He was hurt. Read the issue yourself. Like the number?

Superman's "reserves" were not depleted during the Doomsday battle. Let it go. Superman's reserves do NOT have to be depleted for him to get CRUSHED. LoL, if they WERE depleted, the fight would have lasted 1 1/2 minutes - you fail to realize just how powerful Doomsday is. Superman CANNOT defeat Doomsday again, reserves or otherwise. Doomsday CAN defeat Superman again. Superman CANNOT defeat The Shaggy Man. The Shaggy Man CAN defeat Superman, reserves or otherwise. You are incorrect as regards to Superman. Read up on more Superman battles all across the internet and you will see WHY.

Supreme durability does NOT mean that one is invulnerable. Hulk's durability is listed as demi-godlike. Wolverine walked through him in the #340's (although Hulk was about to kick his runt ass before they stopped the fight). Seen Spiderman's rating for durability?

"Read minds at the speed of light." What does this have to do with anything?

X-Men do not even have "far" more members than the JLA does. Will give you a list after giving you - or anyone else - a little more time to research their roster.

Re: Speed of light, wrong again. This is exactly why they say Superman and others CANNOT exceed the speed of light. Read JLA #2 with the Flash battle. LoL, why do you THINK that Flash NEVER runs at the speed of light on earth (or otherwise)? Like some quotes? And by the way, he cannot throw an object at light speed if he cannot RUN at light speed, now can he?

"Now able to run at speeds >>> approaching<<<< the speed of light, West donned the scarlet costume of The Flash to protect his hometown of Central City from any rogues who would consider causing it harm."

"The effect of the Speed Force on the original two Flashes was to grant them the ability to move at superhuman speeds, often at their peak moving at >>>a good fraction of light speed.<<<"

"This allows him not only to run at >>>near<<< light speed, but also to "vibrate" his body's molecules, enabling him to pass through solid matter. The Flash's speed has deteriorated somewhat with age."

"Powered by the extradimensional Speed Force, he can not only move at >>>near-lightspeed,<<<< but can transfer speed to and from others."

Like other "scientific" references when discussing moving at light-speed? This is AURORA from Alpha Flight.

"It was once theoretically possible for her to reach 99% of the speed of light (286,272 miles per second in a vacuum), although she never traveled at anywhere near that speed since if she did, >>>>she would wreak great damage upon herself end her environment.<<<<"

Wonder why it states that she would wreak great damage upon herself and the environment? Need other references of comic book feats being bound by the laws of physics when discussing objects moving at light speed on EARTH?

I did not "theorize," I have been debating Flash's abilities/battles - and others - for years. I know I am correct, and I know why I am correct. We also had this very same discussion on the other messageboard (comixfan.com) wherein the moderators backed me up. Like that link as well?

Does the x-men line up include only members of the x-men main team, or all mutants who have lived at the institute, including members of:

other teams (New mutants, x-factor, x-force, x-factor 2, GenX, x-statix, x-treme, new,)

What about other non x-men teams (alpha flight, avengers, excalibur, defenders, britain psi-corps, SHIELD, STRIKE, HYDRA, starjammers, imperial guard, hellfire club, morlocks, weapon x, brotherhood,)

What about x-men from alternate universes/timelines?
(days of future past, age of apocolypse, mojoworld, 2099, cable's future, garrison kane's future, bishops future, ultimate universe, doom's Cosmic cube reality, magnteo's cosmic cube reality, red skull's cosmic cube reality, etc..)
?

I was infact refering to those who have been at the institute. I didn't realise there was a difference between living there, and being an X-Man.

as a word invulnerable (in the dictionary)means 'cannot be hurt physically or mentally' but it is very loosely used in the comic book world.

Oh my God. Accidentally hit the "back" button and lost every damn thing I typed. 😠

Spent 15 minutes typing this. GOD!

X-Men have had roughly 38 members. I will type them **again** when I calm the hell down.

The Uncanny X-Men roster only comprises members (current and past) of the Uncanny X-Men...residents do not count. For example, Victor Creed briefly resided at the Xavier Institute. He is no X-Man.

X-Factor was just that - X-Factor. Same with New Mutants, Starjammers, et cetera. SOME of those teams had X-Men members and vice versa; however, they are seperate entities.

X-Force, X-SE - NOT Uncanny X-Men, just like JLA is seperate from JSA.

Omg...cannot believe I lost all that I just typed 😠

Okay, will try this again.

Original/classic members: Marvel Girl, Professor X, Hank McCoy, Cyclops, Ice Man, Angel, Havok, Polaris. I named the last two because of how early they joined - Polaris, Uncanny #49; Havoc, Uncanny #54. This is the purpose of my "original/classic" designation.

Giant Size #1 additions (I HAD this issue. Lost it): Storm, Thunderbird, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus.

95 issues, 13 characters. Sweating yet? No?

Kitty Pryde, Cecilia Reyes, Joseph, Juggernaut, Husk, Chamber, Cannonball, Sunfire, Magneto (sorry, Magneto was an X-Man), Maggott, Banshee, Illyana/Magik, Cable, Dazzler, Sage, Rogue, Emma Frost, Gambit, Gateway, Husk, Jubilee, Longshot, Marrow, Northstar, Psylocke.

Moonstar = part-time. Lockheed? Add him if you like.

Grand total of 38-40, depending on whether or not one wishes to include Dani and Lockheed. I **just might** have left out a very few on accident. Allow me that small margin of error. Questions?

And..."far more," sir...?

Like I said. I was just informed that there is infact a difference between living at the institute, and being an X-Man. Nor was I aware of the vast numbers of JLA members (Probably because of the classic line-up that seems to be spoken of, rather than X-Men's which people constantly rotate.)

Omg...cannot believe I lost all that I just typed

Happen's to the best of us. I once typed out a review of Matrix Reloaded (When the hype was enourmous) and had someone link me to another website, I lost the whole 1 hour or so review that I'd written. Made me feel sick to my stomach with anger, and obviously I blocked the guy who linked me for a good deal of months. 😈

Lil' update on where the Phoenix Force ranks amongst celestial beings in the Marvel Universe (in case some honestly thought I was being biased). Thread was asking where Odin-Thor or any skyfather would rank amongst the following.

Oblivion, Death, Eternity, Infinity
The Celestials
Phoenix Force, Galactus, The Stranger, Master Order, Lord Chaos
The Watchers, Skyfather
Mesphistos
The Elders of the Universe
Silver Surfer

Have you read the Infinity Gauntlet? The abstacts are slightly higher than Phoenix, I think.... But I'm not sure.

You know, I have never actually read The Infinity Gauntlet? Long story short, my best friend and I have been collecting comic books since we were ~10 years old (I am...er, 30-something and my best friend was killed on a motorcyle in '97) and both had "favorites." He had the series (I did not like Thanos then) whilst I collected Uncanny, FF, Alpha Flight, Cerebus, TMNT, et al. Never read it.

Threw away all of my comic books in the mid-80's as a way of pissing off my parents who would hide them as a form of punishment.

Silly, silly, silly me.

Abstracts...? On par with The Celestials?

I'm surprised you never read that. I would recommend it. Heck, its only six issues and I dont think its going for a whole bunch. I would stay away from the infinity crusade and the infinity war though (rubbish). The only reason to read the latter two would be for historical aspects.

Originally posted by Never

Abstracts...? On par with The Celestials?

They are actually believed to be above celestials. Have you read Earth X?

Originally posted by Never
Lil' update on where the Phoenix Force ranks amongst celestial beings in the Marvel Universe (in case some honestly thought I was being biased). Thread was asking where Odin-Thor or any skyfather would rank amongst the following.

Oblivion, Death, Eternity, Infinity
The Celestials
Phoenix Force, Galactus, The Stranger, Master Order, Lord Chaos
The Watchers, Skyfather
Mesphistos
The Elders of the Universe
Silver Surfer

Actually Death is an Abstract, this is my list:

1😮ne Above all (aka God)
2: Living Tribunal
3:Inifity, Cosmic Cube
4: Abstracts (also, Captain Marvel destroyed the universe by him self, no gaunlet or cube, he's up here, he's a future Avenger, currently insane)
5: Celestials
6: Watchers,Phoenix Force, etc

Cosmic cube is not a character, it's an item

Genis (re)created the universe by himseelf as well