Originally posted by Branlor Swift
For ****'s sake. The only logical conclusion is that all three created/reinforced the shield.And Surfer was on his knees because he was being dragged down, as evidenced by them grabbing the dick out of his arms and looking like they were pulling him down. Thor was grabbing his face because they were crawling in his ****ing eyeholes.
Neither were really hurt if the next time we see them is any indication, but they would have been absolutely crushed if it had continued.Neither was superior to the other in the Scrier annual. And neither looked better either. But they were both written tremendously high
Hmm, I guess that is the only fair conclusion to reach based on the evidence we have, or the lack there-of in this case.
Lol, what?
I don't think either came off as explicitly more powerful but Mjolnir definitely came off as the most potent resource.
Originally posted by janus77
I presume that Surfer created it and that is what is being depicted because he often (though not always) blasts energy attacks from his hands, because he uses his hands to channel the Power Cosmic for many effects and because whatever did originate it, it would be reasonable to imagine that it would be at the origin point of it.I've not seen Rachel use her toes to shape and discharge energy attacks, so yes that is a "lawlz" worthy idea, same as Thor's hammer being responsible I guess.
Agree to disagree.
I'm going to go with all three of them pitching in. Seems to make the most sense.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What would be a sufficient number? And what would you except? If we see Superman standing while Diana is brought to her knees by an attack, is that valid? We of course already know that Superman is more durable but shouldn't that further support my point?Both were in agony, but I think standing on your feet indicates Thor took it better.
I personally don't know what a "sufficient number is". I guess "sufficient enough to establish it as forum fact" would be the correct amount.
Bear in mind that this ISN'T about "standing" vs "on knees" like you keep repeating, this is about "clutching face in agony" vs "doubled over in pain".
Bran, I think, explained it the best. This was about how they were attacked. They were both equally as screwed in the scene. Neither looked better than the other.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, both are near the center (Surfer's off to the right a bit just as Rachel is to the left) but Rachel is in between both of them and has both her arms raised up. The majority of light is also around her body, and not Surfer's. No, I don't think Rachel's heel created the force field which is why I think this observation of lighting doesn't really indicate anything.I'm not certain if the glow had anything to do with the creation of the force field, angular lighting or just random coincidence. Personally I believe it was there in-conjunction with the creation of the force field but I don't think it means anything conclusive.
You would have a much more concrete argument if the light was emanating from Surfer's hand. I'd agree with you then, but it's not. I think that lighting is completely independent of Surfer and if he had been removed from the scene, it would still be in that same position.
I, for one, cannot fathom how one could even consider Rachel as being "just as center" as Surfer's hand here.
This is the panel in question:
This is the center of a circle:
To me, it is blatantly obvious that Surfer's hand was def nearly dead center (a bit off to the right but by a tiny bit) in the force field.
Also, the flash of light was there in the creation of the force field. It was absent on the panel directly following it. "Flash of lights" are a common medium used whenever something is quickly created via energy in comics. It is obviously used the same way im this panel. Again, i can't fathom how one can see it any other way.
Lastly, here is the center of the "flash of light":
Notice the position of Surfer's hand? It's nearly dead center. How can one see this as anything other than "the light emanated from his hand"? I cannot fathom how can even think that it came from anywhere from Rachel? I mean, light tends to emanate outwards from its source.
Art-wise, there is IMO, more evidence here that Surfer created the force field as there was Thor's Mjolnir strikes creating shockwaves that were cracking the distant planet but no one (beyond the random disgruntled anti-Thor poster) seemed to have problems giving credit on it to Thor (I fought just as hard to defend that "feat" as well).
All I'm asking is that we give credit where credit is due.
At the very least, it throws doubt on the interpretation you posted that (which has always been my primary point of contention from the very beginning):
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Mjolnir is able to protect them from an assault from the Other/Scrier/Galactus and channels the power of Rachel/Surfer/Thor into the other 3:
Surfer seemingly created the force field and the 3 of them focused their powers to reinforce it.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusWe see Surfer look like he's being dragged downwards when they first land on him. Then we see them crawling in Thor's eyes.
Hmm, I guess that is the only fair conclusion to reach based on the evidence we have, or the lack there-of in this case.Lol, what?
I don't think either came off as explicitly more powerful but Mjolnir definitely came off as the most potent resource.
Because of the super Godblast? To be expected, but no one was in anyway making the other look bad. He even made them pool their power so one wasn't left behind watching. It was about as even as writing gets tbh.
Fact is, all three managed to hold off against beings who were actively destroying the universe at the time, and one was able to create a thousand Thors and Surfers while one was able to eat those characters. And one was able to fight both off...
You split that into three and it's still insanely way above herald level.
That book is just evidence of how crazy high Surfer and Thor can be written, not of a power difference.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I personally don't know what a "sufficient number is". I guess "sufficient enough to establish it as forum fact" would be the correct amount.Bear in mind that this ISN'T about "standing" vs "on knees" like you keep repeating, this is about "clutching face in agony" vs "doubled over in pain".
Bran, I think, explained it the best. This was about how they were attacked. They were both equally as screwed in the scene. Neither looked better than the other.
Well, that's a bit of a problem. I could post two, twelve or 200 instances, as long as your mind isn't made up, you could just say it's not enough. You get what I mean?
Meh, I think Thor came off better because he was still on his feet. If you disagree that's fine but I don't see why you would tbh.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I, for one, cannot fathom how one could even consider Rachel as being "just as center" as Surfer's hand here.This is the panel in question:
This is a center of a circle:
To me, it is blatantly obvious that Surfer's hand was def nearly dead center (a bit off to the right but by a tiny bit) in the force field.
Also, the flash of light was there in the creation of the force field. It was absent on the panel directly following it. "Flash of lights" are a common medium used whenever something is quickly created via energy in comics. It is obviously used the same way im this panel. Again, i can't fathom how one can see it any other way.
Lastly, here is the center of the "flash of light":
Notice the position of Surfer's hand? It's nearly dead center. How can one see this as anything other than "the light emanated from his hand"? I cannot fathom how can even think that it came from anywhere from Rachel? I mean, light tends to emanate outwards from its source.
Art-wise, there is IMO, more evidence here that Surfer created the force field as there was Thor's Mjolnir strikes creating shockwaves that were cracking the distant planet but no one (beyond the random disgruntled anti-Thor poster) seemed to have problems giving credit on it to Thor (I fought just as hard to defend that "feat" as well).
All I'm asking is that we give credit where credit is due.
At the very least, it throws doubt on the interpretation you posted that:
Surfer seemingly created the force field and the 3 of them focused their powers to reinforce it.
I don't understand why you're so befuddled by my stance. The light is not emanating or originating from Surfer's hand. Surfer's arm is simply closer to the center and I think it's completely independent from him.
You yourself just admitted it's a bit off to the right and yet have no problem attributing the feat to him. That to me, makes no real sense tbh.
What are you talking about? Rachel's ankle is as close to the center as Surfer's hand. Would you attribute the feat to her? No, because it would probably be stupid. Which is entirely my point.
If this is all about giving each character their due, then like Bran said, attributing it to all three is a big deal.
Like I told what's his face, I wasn't sure who created the force field so I didn't mind if it was attributed to Rachel or whatever, I just said Mjolnir cause it looked like the force field he created earlier. And it was too late to edit my post. Also, I like Thor more, but it really doesn't make any difference to me. The force field didn't even do anything particularly insane.
I just find a hard giving Surfer credit because of a lighting effect. Frankly, I'd have an easier time accepting you crediting it to Surfer just because you like him more.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
We see Surfer look like he's being dragged downwards when they first land on him. Then we see them crawling in Thor's eyes.
Thor grasps his face because really... while Surfer is powered to the floor. They were probably in pain, but I don't think the pain itself was what put them in that position.
We've already seen the beings like one panel Thor. If they were actually attacking the two's minds the entire time instead of working towards attacking their minds, they would have both been on the floor unconscious. Which was immediately about to happen had Scrier not came along. It was his book afterall, and he needed them.Because of the super Godblast? To be expected, but no one was in anyway making the other look bad. He even made them pool their power so one wasn't left behind watching. It was about as even as writing gets tbh.
Fact is, all three managed to hold off against beings who were actively destroying the universe at the time, and one was able to create a thousand Thors and Surfers while one was able to eat those characters. And one was able to fight both off...
You split that into three and it's still insanely way above herald level.That book is just evidence of how crazy high Surfer and Thor can be written, not of a power difference.
Just agree to disagree then. It's really this simple to me: Surfer was floored and Thor was standing, ergo Thor looks more resilient to me in this case. Also, we saw those kinky little aliens crawling into their minds and they were definitely in pain. It should be noted, Thor was swarmed by all of them.
I didn't say Thor made Surfer look bad. I just said he looked more resourceful etc. Which he did with the triple blast through Mjolnir and finding his balance long enough to create the Anti-Vortex.
Yup, very impressive. For the record, they weren't actually real Surfer's and Thor's. They were shadow constructs from their mind etc.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusPain, yes, but considering how little we know they need to take out Surfer and Thor, I can't imagine that being the main factor there. Subduing so it makes it easier to destroy them seems likely to me. Basically put, they were about to be crushed and it didn't matter if Surfer or Thor fell a second before the other, both were going down.
Just agree to disagree then. It's really this simple to me: Surfer was floored and Thor was standing, ergo Thor looks more resilient to me in this case. Also, we saw those kinky little aliens crawling into their minds and they were definitely in pain. It should be noted, Thor was swarmed by all of them.I didn't say Thor made Surfer look bad. I just said he looked more resourceful etc. Which he did with the triple blast through Mjolnir and finding his balance long enough to create the Anti-Vortex.
Yup, very impressive. For the record, they weren't actually real Surfer's and Thor's. They were shadow constructs from their mind etc.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
For those curious, the last time we saw the two side by side, was in the annual. And surprise, surprise, Thor looked -arguably- more impressive. He was even the one pulling off the versatility powers:
They were as real as Surfer and Thor at the time as evidenced by them also wrecking the Other beings. They were presumably just empty shells though.
Rachel was created in a dream as well, and she was quite real.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusWell, at least you changed your abhi stance of "Thor created it because of a similar one he created earlier!" (even though he didn't)
Lol.Yeah, I'm done with this discussion.
All three contributed to the force field as far as we know and Thor > Surfer because Bran touches little boys.
You skirt around with your abhi side too much to be judgmental of a little fingerbanging.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Well, at least you changed your abhi stance of "Thor created it because of a similar one he created earlier!" (even though he didn't)You skirt around with your abhi side too much to be judgmental of a little fingerbanging.
My stance was always that you can credit the field to whoever the hell you want as you can't prove anything conclusively. He did though, it was that Anti-Force Vortex thing, looked similar enough.
No need to get mean bro.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Pain, yes, but considering how little we know they need to take out Surfer and Thor, I can't imagine that being the main factor there. Subduing so it makes it easier to destroy them seems likely to me. Basically put, they were about to be crushed and it didn't matter if Surfer or Thor fell a second before the other, both were going down.
If you want to play the "all of them" angle, then it should be noted that way more were on Surfer at the time of him being "floored"They were as real as Surfer and Thor at the time as evidenced by them also wrecking the Other beings. They were presumably just empty shells though.
Rachel was created in a dream as well, and she was quite real.
How little they know what? I'm confused. It looked like they entered their minds and were about to do collapse them mentally like they did to Thor earlier, supported by Surfer's comment about how he knew what it felt to have the Other eating away at his core. Not really.
They were called aspects of their consciousness and so on. Oblivion also referred to them as an army of the mind. They apparently had some form of their own individuality but they were still shadow selves of Surfer/Thor, pieces of their mind brought forth and an extension of them. Rachel was birthed into Scrier's own mind IIRC and I'm not attributing her to these personalities brought forth from their minds.
Quick question, where was the wall built to imprison the Other created? At the edge of reality as implied in the second scan?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How little they know what? I'm confused. It looked like they entered their minds and were about to do collapse them mentally like they did to Thor earlier, supported by Surfer's comment about how he knew what it felt to have the Other eating away at his core. Not really.They were called aspects of their consciousness and so on. Oblivion also referred to them as an army of the mind. They apparently had some form of their own individuality but they were still shadow selves of Surfer/Thor, pieces of their mind brought forth and an extension of them. Rachel was birthed into Scrier's own mind IIRC and I'm not attributing her to these personalities brought forth from their minds.
Quick question, where was the wall built to imprison the Other created? At the edge of reality as implied in the second scan?
- RageofAbhi
July 21, 2013
How little we know it takes for the Other to defeat both of them. The Other literally killed Surfer before in a page.
If the little greys were actively attacking their minds at the time, both would have been put to sleep instantly. Which is why I think it had less to do with pain, as opposed to subduing them to 'kill' them. Hell, they even managed to wrestle around Scrier for a little bit in Scrier 137
Because really, Thor is not resisting the Other attacking his mind, let alone better than anyone.
That's not the whole scene...
But, they were formed from Surfer/Thor's mind. They evidently weren't just mental warriors either considering the physical aspect of it. He created thousands of Surfer's and Thor's from their minds. I'm not sure what you're arguing here... that they were illusions, mental projections?
And Rachel was created in a dream (supposedly), he actively plucked these warriors from Thor/Surfer. He also seemingly activated hundreds of other Rachels as well.
http://i42.tinypic.com/30wpdeo.jpg
Though that doesn't rule out it being at the edge of reality.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusYeah, that seemed obvious by you abhi'ing up feats and arguing that he looked -arguably- more impressive
My stance was always that you can credit the field to whoever the hell you want as you can't prove anything conclusively. He did though, it was that Anti-Force Vortex thing, looked similar enough.No need to get mean bro.
That anti force looked nothing like it though. For one thing, one was a shield...
I could see if you were saying this issue made Thor superior to Superman, but not the guy he was equal to in the issue
