Silver Surfer vs Thor

Started by celeyhyga1792 pages
celeyhyga17 Yawning Void

Originally posted by Epicurus
Nope, Mjolnir is external equipment which is standard gear as far as Thor goes. Thor's own natural abilities include energy projection, electricity/electromagnetic manip, weather manip, and insane strength/durability which most high heralds short of Superman would kill to have. Not a very versatile powerset sans Mjolnir if you ask me.

Surfer's abilities on the other hand stem directly from the PC imparted upon him by Galactus. Not external equipment like the board. If his board gets smashed, Surfer can simply restore it with a wave of his hand. If Mjolnir gets smashed, Thor would need the help of Odin to repair it.

It's fairly simple; between the 2 of them, Superman is clearly more powerful than the Martian Manhunter, however for him to match J'onn's versatility, Kal would need an external device like a gl ring or the motherbox. Same goes for Thor/Surfer.


I think we're stuck on semantics here. The character Thor would not be the same without Mjolnir. It is synonymous with his character and should not be separated.

It's like me saying the character Iron Man's powers are his intellect and ability to drop panties, while his armor is just standard equipment.

Tar-Antado Secret Dunadain King

Surfer also has the edge in senses.

h1a8 Senior Member

Surfer is much faster and more mobile. Thor would have serious trouble defending if Surfer decides to use his mobility and speed and blast Thor from all angles. Also a black hole blast or board from behind hit would serious phuck Thor up and give Surfer the advantage. And if Surfer decides to phase through attacks or shield himself with force fields while manuevering then this fight is easy for him.

One-Punch B-Class Hero

Originally posted by abhilegend
And that tactic failed against Thor, repeatedly I might add. So what's the point in bringing that up? Its like saying someone knocked out hercules so he would knock out Thor too.

Guess who got his skull dented with a headbutt and cried out in pain on mars?

Again with this post-annihilation BS? Post-annihilation surfer got oneshot KTFO by Karnilla, pre-annihilation surfer no sold Karnilla. His amp is stuff of past, its like arguing Iron man's amps. If we take all the upgrades he had made to his armors, he'd be skyfather level now. Surfer got an ambiguous amp in Annihilation, that doesn't eradicate all his showings before that. And bill tapped that ass in B&T.


You're talking about the board to the back right? Because that worked every single time on Thor. He kept falling for it multiple times in battle. But Surfer used the board differently against Bill, he used it to create an opening so he could beat Bill down. He used it against Thor to just tag him, but didn't bother to follow up with other attacks, but instead followed up with monologues.

Yeah Surfer's skull was dented but reformed after what? 3 panels? Dents don't matter to Fraction's Surfer who can turn into snow, and enlarge his head like a helium balloon. BTW, did you see Thor's forehead afterwards? Quite a lot of blood.

Because post-annihilation Surfer is part of continuity and is the most recent incarnation of Surfer. His most recent fight with Bill was very close to Annihilation event, and should be taken into account. Hmm I wonder if you'd uphold the same standards for different Supermen of different eras.

One-Punch B-Class Hero

Originally posted by abhilegend
It absorbed Surfer's energy attacks just fine before surfer cheapshotted him.

Using your board to create an opening mid-fight isn't a cheap shot. If it is, then Thor is the king of cheap shots because he's hammer tossed people from the back countless times, even when they're not fighting. The hammer worked to absorb Surfer's blast, but that left a huge opening for Surfer to hit him with his board. Again, it just goes to show that the hammer isn't an auto-win against Surfer like some people are implying.

Even you wouldn't argue Surfer is going to beat Thor in h2h or are surfer's punches and board are energy blasts too now?

I don't even know what your point is in this sentence. Who's saying Surfer beats Thor h2h or boards are energy? Like what? :/


Are you talking about sonic shark? His depowerment was only due to Surfer's imprisonment on earth which was retconned later BTW. When Loki freed him from the barrier, he was back to the full power and there was no mention of him being depowered after that issue.

What are you talking about? Prove that the depowerement was only due to being trapped in Earth.

Also Loki never freed Surfer from the barrier, he only offered it as a reward for defeating Thor. Get your facts straight.

It was mentioned Surfer was still depowered in SS #2...one issue before Surfer's fight with Thor in SS#4
http://i.imgur.com/1U7f4b3.jpg?1

Like I said (as usual), get your facts straight.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member

I don't know about after (Pretty sure he'd still be depowered as Loki never freed him), but Loki took Surfer past Galactus' barrier in order to enter Asgard. Which is the reason why he was depowered during the era, cut off from the Power Cosmic. Not to mention Loki amped him further beyond anything he'd experienced even as Herald of Galactus.

One-Punch B-Class Hero

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well, let's look at their respective fights, shall we?

The tactic Surfer used to gain an advantage over Bill did not turn the fight for him against Thor. And Bill was actually doing just fine against Surfer with Stormbreaker countering his Power Cosmic.

I hope the two get a rematch soon and Bill pays him back. It's about time I think that this blemish on Bill's record was removed.

Edit: I almost forgot that Bill (While injured IIRC) did two piece Surfer.

Surfer followed up the board attack with a flurry of cosmic punches on Bill. He followed up the board attack with a monologue about not fighting when he used it against Thor. Somewhat of a difference. But it's clear Thor couldn't counter getting hit by the board, since it worked like thrice. Even at the end of the fight when Thor saw the board coming from a mile away, he couldn't counter it, except with an "oh shit."

When did Bill two piece Surfer?

One-Punch B-Class Hero

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is getting silly.

Bill would be a decent benchmark if Thor/Surfer had never encountered each other. Except they have.

And I have no idea how you think that scene disproves the hammers countering the Power Cosmic? It was doing JUST that:

There's a reason none of Surfer's attacks broke through his defenses and he resorted to an attack from behind to get his opening. And at that point it turns into a comparison of physical competence between Thor/Bill and not hammers vs. Power Cosmic. I.e. Bill should have turned to defend himself or been faster to react against Surfer's punches.

What difference does it make if Thor never encountered Surfer? Bill knew all about Surfer during their fight in Godhunter. They were acquainted in Blood and Thunder and Star Masters(?). Didn't make a difference.

I'm not trying to disprove the hammer countering Surfer. I'm saying the hammer isn't an auto-win against Surfer. Please, I'm not in the mood to point out strawmans every two seconds.

Well it goes to my point all along. Having a hammer absorbing Surfer's energy doesn't mean an auto-win against Surfer, since it leaves a huge opening to the board. This is clear even with the recent fight with Thor, when the board attack was landed like thrice.

If Bill turned to defend against the board he would be blasted. If he doesn't turn, then he gets rammed. The hammer is a strong defense against Surfer's energy blast, but it has it's weakness, clearly.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member

Originally posted by One-Punch
Surfer followed up the board attack with a flurry of cosmic punches on Bill. He followed up the board attack with a monologue about not fighting when he used it against Thor. Somewhat of a difference. But it's clear Thor couldn't counter getting hit by the board, since it worked like thrice. Even at the end of the fight when Thor saw the board coming from a mile away, he couldn't counter it, except with an "oh shit."

When did Bill two piece Surfer?

Wait, are you saying that if Surfer had followed up with some punches, he'd have been able to beat Thor? Lol. Fraction's Thor would laugh at that shit, let's be serious here. Not to mention, the board flew Thor right into a headbutt from Surfer (The go-to technique under Fraction it seems) and an energy blast or whatever and Thor handled it just fine.

It IS difficult to counter a faster then light object catching you by surprise from behind. That doesn't mean Thor CAN'T counter the board anymore then it means Surfer can't counter a hammer throw, it's just problematic, which I personally never denied.

Blood and Thunder.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member
Originally posted by One-Punch
What difference does it make if Thor never encountered Surfer? Bill knew all about Surfer during their fight in Godhunter. They were acquainted in Blood and Thunder and Star Masters(?). Didn't make a difference.

Because it means we have direct showings between Surfer/Thor, heck, even multiple different forms of comparison. Which means that saying Surfer this and that and pointing to his encounter with Beta Ray Bill is not really that relevant.

Originally posted by One-Punch
I'm not trying to disprove the hammer countering Surfer. I'm saying the hammer isn't an auto-win against Surfer. Please, I'm not in the mood to point out strawmans every two seconds.

Well it goes to my point all along. Having a hammer absorbing Surfer's energy doesn't mean an auto-win against Surfer, since it leaves a huge opening to the board. This is clear even with the recent fight with Thor, when the board attack was landed like thrice.

If Bill turned to defend against the board he would be blasted. If he doesn't turn, then he gets rammed. The hammer is a strong defense against Surfer's energy blast, but it has it's weakness, clearly.

I never said it was an auto-win. Do I get to call strawman now?

Anyways, hammer counters Surfer's energy attacks but is potentially vulnerable to board behind the back. I get it. Just so long as you understand that it doesn't mean an auto-win for Surfer either.

And if he's anything like Thor, he'd tank that energy blast no problem. One of the strongest capabilities of Mjolnir's energy absorption is being able to draw in energy from practically anything and from all directions. Turning around to block the board doesn't leave one vulnerable to energy projection. Not to mention dodging, ducking or using both hands. Basically common sense shit but whatever.

Epicurus True Killer

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I think we're stuck on semantics here. The character Thor would not be the same without Mjolnir. It is synonymous with his character and should not be separated.

It's like me saying the character Iron Man's powers are his intellect and ability to drop panties, while his armor is just standard equipment.


Nah, not really. And I am not separating it, since standard gear is counted as part and parcel of a character. What I am objecting to is it being included as part of Thor's powerse, which it is not.

Technically speaking, that is true. Tony without the armor is just another ******* who also happens to be a genius, billionaire, playboy etc.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by One-Punch
You're talking about the board to the back right? Because that worked every single time on Thor. He kept falling for it multiple times in battle.
Yet it did nothing whatsoever to him.
But Surfer used the board differently against Bill, he used it to create an opening so he could beat Bill down. He used it against Thor to just tag him, but didn't bother to follow up with other attacks, but instead followed up with monologues.
That's his nature in the fights. CIS is still on in this fight, y'know.

Yeah Surfer's skull was dented but reformed after what? 3 panels?
And?
Dents don't matter to Fraction's Surfer who can turn into snow, and enlarge his head like a helium balloon.
That's saying punches don't matter to J'onn because he can shape-shift.
BTW, did you see Thor's forehead afterwards? Quite a lot of blood.
So?

Because post-annihilation Surfer is part of continuity and is the most recent incarnation of Surfer.
And his performance against the likes of Thor, Karnilla and any other heralds was essentially same as before or even worse.
His most recent fight with Bill was very close to Annihilation event, and should be taken into account.
The most recent depiction of surfer after Annihilation showed him getting armbarred by Black Panther and getting his energy absorbed by Doom's machine like always. But that doesn't account, right?
Hmm I wonder if you'd uphold the same standards for different Supermen of different eras.
Of course. Superman has several amps in the past but only one or two have been refernced regularly. One after DOS and one after before OWAW. If I start counting his amps he would start beating skyfathers here. Take it this way, superman was stalemated by Captain Marvel and Orion before his amps and was still stalemated by them after his amps. These types of amps rarely stick on characters.

Using your board to create an opening mid-fight isn't a cheap shot.
Of course it is. If an opponent can't see the attack coming, its a cheapshot.
If it is, then Thor is the king of cheap shots because he's hammer tossed people from the back countless times, even when they're not fighting.
And who said he isn't? Certainly not me.
The hammer worked to absorb Surfer's blast, but that left a huge opening for Surfer to hit him with his board.
After bill attacked surfer, not just after the absorbing trick.
Again, it just goes to show that the hammer isn't an auto-win against Surfer like some people are implying.
And it isn't. Surfer can certainly wins despite mjolnir but his record against it isn't stellar.

I don't even know what your point is in this sentence. Who's saying Surfer beats Thor h2h or boards are energy? Like what? :/
Did you even read what you wrote which I quoted?

What are you talking about? Prove that the depowerement was only due to being trapped in Earth.
Easy-peasy.

It was again retconned in Marvel Age 25 that surfer was never depowered.

Also Loki never freed Surfer from the barrier, he only offered it as a reward for defeating Thor. Get your facts straight.
You mean Loki never breached Galactus' barrier and took surfer to asgard? How strange!!!

It was mentioned Surfer was still depowered in SS #2...one issue before Surfer's fight with Thor in SS#4
http://i.imgur.com/1U7f4b3.jpg?1
2+1=4?

Also Surfer was taken out of Galactus barrier in SS 4 and was directly stated to be more powerful than ever.

Like I said (as usual), get your facts straight.
And here I thought you knew about surfer. How silly of me.

One-Punch B-Class Hero

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yet it did nothing whatsoever to him. That's his nature in the fights.
The board did about as much damage as Thor's hammer toss and hammer strike. Neither Thor nor Surfer did any lasting damage to each other. I'm focusing on the fact that the board landed a hit on Thor thrice, and Thor couldn't react to it.

CIS is still on in this fight, y'know.

Using your board as a method of attack and then following up with some other attacks is still in-character for Surfer. But preaching non-violence is also in character unfortunately. The latter is what he did with Thor.

And? That's saying punches don't matter to J'onn because he can shape-shift.

No, it means Surfer's form is naturally more malleable, and that dent did no lasting damage to Surfer since it was reformed a couple panels later.

So?

Are you that dense? Thor's face was covered in blood, that head-butt hurt Thor too.

And his performance against the likes of Thor, Karnilla and any other heralds was essentially same as before or even worse.
Prove it. He did well against Thor in the first encounter with Loki's amp (while depowered though), did worse in BT, and stalemated Thor in the recent encounter.

The most recent depiction of surfer after Annihilation showed him getting armbarred by Black Panther and getting his energy absorbed by Doom's machine like always. But that doesn't account, right?

McDuffie (the writer) explained that armbar scene a long time ago. You're pretty dense if you think Surfer was in trouble against BP. Even if you believed that, it'd fall under PIS based on the forum rules. Being upgraded by Galactus doesn't make you immune to Doom's energy absorbing. Do you know the type of cosmic beings Doom has screwed over?

Of course. Superman has several amps in the past but only one or two have been refernced regularly. One after DOS and one after before OWAW. If I start counting his amps he would start beating skyfathers here. Take it this way, superman was stalemated by Captain Marvel and Orion before his amps and was still stalemated by them after his amps. These types of amps rarely stick on characters.

Whether these amps stick on is dependent on the appearances after the upgrade, and whether they seem more powerful. Before the upgrade I would've never guessed Surfer could manipulate crunch energies, or beat Bill to a blood pulp with his fists, or beat the shit out of Super Skaar and seal away his old power, or humiliate Nova, etc etc. But to be fair, Surfer has barely any comic appearances compared to people like Superman, Spiderman, Thor etc. He roughly averages 12 appearances a year. The more popular characters have that many appearances in a week...

Of course it is. If an opponent can't see the attack coming, its a cheapshot.
No it's not. If Thor recalled his hammer and hit an opponent from behind MID-BATTLE, I'd call it smart battle tactics because its part of his power-set. Same with Surfer's board. A cheapshot would be if you surprised attack someone behind before the fight even starts.

What If Cyclops was held down by a physically superior enemy, and he shoots an optic blast that ricochets off a wall, and hits the enemy in the back of the head. Based on your definition that's a cheapshot, for me it's a f'ing smart way to use your powers. That's essentially what Surfer did.

On the other hand, if Cyclops starts a fight by surprise blasting an enemy in the back, that's a cheap shot.

Do you see the difference?

After bill attacked surfer, not just after the absorbing trick. And it isn't. Surfer can certainly wins despite mjolnir but his record against it isn't stellar.

He only really lost to Thor in BT, which isn't that bad because Thor was written as a powerhouse in that comic. But his first fight with Thor he did really well against Mjolnir, even separating Thor from it. He also did well against Bill who has a Mjolnir clone (Storm Breaker). And most recently, he did perfectly fine against crazy Fraction Thor.

Did you even read what you wrote which I quoted?

I did, it didn't make sense. What's this talk about boards being energy?

Easy-peasy.

.

It was again retconned in Marvel Age 25 that surfer was never depowered.


😂

How does that retcon the depowerement? All the scan said was that the ozone blocks some energy Surfer uses, and that he resorts to another method of getting power, which burned a hole in the ozone.

How does that retcon this?

I asked for scans of when Surfer was restored to full power in the comic-book question thread. Post them if you have them.

You mean Loki never breached Galactus' barrier and took surfer to asgard? How strange!!!


Loki transporting Surfer to Asgard doesn't necessarily mean Surfer was free, it just meant they passed the barrier just to get to Asgard, which is just another dimension. You left out the part of the panel that said Surfer would only be free if he accomplished his mission in Asgard. But what does it matter? You still haven't posted actual proof that he wasn't depowered.

2+1=4?

Surfer was permanently depowered very recently prior to his fight with Thor.

Also Surfer was taken out of Galactus barrier in SS 4 and was directly stated to be more powerful than ever.

SS 4 is when he fought Thor, what are you talking about?

And here I thought you knew about surfer. How silly of me.

😆

Says the person who has a legendary reputation to low-ball, post out of context scans, and misrepresent Surfer (and just about any other herald that can challenge Superman).

Oh god I haven't laughed this hard in ages.

celeyhyga17 Yawning Void

Originally posted by Epicurus
Nah, not really. And I am not separating it, since standard gear is counted as part and parcel of a character. What I am objecting to is it being included as part of Thor's powerse, which it is not.

Technically speaking, that is true. Tony without the armor is just another ******* who also happens to be a genius, billionaire, playboy etc.


Objection overruled!

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Holy wall of text Batman!!!

Originally posted by One-Punch
The board did about as much damage as Thor's hammer toss and hammer strike.
Haha, its cute how you think that.
Neither Thor nor Surfer did any lasting damage to each other.
Surfer cried out in pain by his own shot on mars, Thor didn't.
I'm focusing on the fact that the board landed a hit on Thor thrice, and Thor couldn't react to it.
He didn't need to. He was just that damn durable that he could tank those love taps all day long.

Using your board as a method of attack and then following up with some other attacks is still in-character for Surfer. But preaching non-violence is also in character unfortunately. The latter is what he did with Thor.
Its in-character for surfer for a long time, it doesn't always proves so good for him though. Thor might pull a Lunatik on him and bash his head in with his own board.

No, it means Surfer's form is naturally more malleable, and that dent did no lasting damage to Surfer since it was reformed a couple panels later.
You mean healing from a wound means someone got no damage from a dented skull? How amazing!!

Are you that dense? Thor's face was covered in blood, that head-butt hurt Thor too.
And I asked what about it? Nobody said it didn't hurt thor.

Prove it. He did well against Thor in the first encounter with Loki's amp (while depowered though), did worse in BT, and stalemated Thor in the recent encounter.
First thing first, he was more powerful than ever against Thor in first fight by Loki himself, nearly killed Thor with a warning shot by his own admission, knocked out a stunned thor with one attack in the same issue where he is supposed to be weaker and got oneshotted twice when he isn't supposed to be.

McDuffie (the writer) explained that armbar scene a long time ago.
He did? In which comic?
You're pretty dense if you think Surfer was in trouble against BP.
When he got drained like always and got oneshotted? Yeah, he was classic surfer all the same.
Even if you believed that, it'd fall under PIS based on the forum rules.
Not when surfer has the worst record against energy draining among all the high heralds.
Being upgraded by Galactus doesn't make you immune to Doom's energy absorbing. Do you know the type of cosmic beings Doom has screwed over?
By inductors? Because panther just randomly copied Doom's inductor based draining device and drained him like always.

Whether these amps stick on is dependent on the appearances after the upgrade, and whether they seem more powerful.
And annihilation amp never stuck.
Before the upgrade I would've never guessed Surfer could manipulate crunch energies, or beat Bill to a blood pulp with his fists, or beat the shit out of Super Skaar and seal away his old power, or humiliate Nova, etc etc.
Why? Classic surfer has better feats than that.
But to be fair, Surfer has barely any comic appearances compared to people like Superman, Spiderman, Thor etc. He roughly averages 12 appearances a year. The more popular characters have that many appearances in a week...
That doesn't excuses getting oneshotted by Karnilla or getting impaled by an Aleph robot.

No it's not. If Thor recalled his hammer and hit an opponent from behind MID-BATTLE, I'd call it smart battle tactics because its part of his power-set.
Now you're just flip-flopping. Its a cheapshot in every way. Just because Thor does it all the time doesn't means its not.
Same with Surfer's board. A cheapshot would be if you surprised attack someone behind before the fight even starts.
Nope. Cheapshots means every shot where a character got surprised attacked and isn't prepared for an attack from behind.

What If Cyclops was held down by a physically superior enemy, and he shoots an optic blast that ricochets off a wall, and hits the enemy in the back of the head. Based on your definition that's a cheapshot, for me it's a f'ing smart way to use your powers. That's essentially what Surfer did.
He fought smartly and cheapshotted the enemy I'd say. He did it against magneto and Logan of all people called him out on using a dirty tactic.

On the other hand, if Cyclops starts a fight by surprise blasting an enemy in the back, that's a cheap shot.
Nope. You're simply obfuscating a very simple idea.

Do you see the difference?
Between what actually?

He only really lost to Thor in BT, which isn't that bad because Thor was written as a powerhouse in that comic. But his first fight with Thor he did really well against Mjolnir, even separating Thor from it.
Which Thor shattered and was holding back by surfer's own admission. He also lost to Bill in B&T and Bill beat the shit out of the same Thor who beat surfer in Surfer's own comic no less.
He also did well against Bill who has a Mjolnir clone (Storm Breaker).
By cheapshotting him. When Bill cheapshotted surfer while being wounded he KTFO surfer in two hits.
And most recently, he did perfectly fine against crazy Fraction Thor.
Sure.


I did, it didn't make sense. What's this talk about boards being energy?
You said stormbreaker couldn't counter surfer's attacks when it did just that.

😂

How does that retcon the depowerement? All the scan said was that the ozone blocks some energy Surfer uses, and that he resorts to another method of getting power, which burned a hole in the ozone.

That tells us that the "depowered" surfer was just him not able to absorb power efficiently under earth's atmosphere.

How does that retcon this?

Retcon what in that? Surfer never mentioned Sonic Shark in SS 2. In the same comics he tells us how cosmos "replenishes" his strength.

But if you want to know where was surfer's power returned exactly to him, here it is told just after SS 18 in continuity.

There you go, surfer absorbed back all the power it had absorbed from him. Its the same sonic shark BTW.

Happy?

I asked for scans of when Surfer was restored to full power in the comic-book question thread. Post them if you have them.
Already did.

Loki transporting Surfer to Asgard doesn't necessarily mean Surfer was free, it just meant they passed the barrier just to get to Asgard, which is just another dimension. You left out the part of the panel that said Surfer would only be free if he accomplished his mission in Asgard.
Asgard is in a different dimension sure, but the depowered state was only on earth.
But what does it matter? You still haven't posted actual proof that he wasn't depowered.

Surfer was permanently depowered very recently prior to his fight with Thor.

And his mergence with Loki made him explicitly more powerful than ever.

So it matters little that he was depowered or not.

SS 4 is when he fought Thor, what are you talking about?
What?

😆

Says the person who has a legendary reputation to low-ball, post out of context scans, and misrepresent Surfer (and just about any other herald that can challenge Superman).

Oh god I haven't laughed this hard in ages.

Eh, I sure as heck don't get schooled by say carver in my superman knowledge.

Igniz I reign supreme!

Thor for the win 🙂

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by abhilegend
Holy wall of text Batman!!!

Haha, its cute how you think that. Surfer cried out in pain by his own shot on mars, Thor didn't. He didn't need to. He was just that damn durable that he could tank those love taps all day long.

Its in-character for surfer for a long time, it doesn't always proves so good for him though. Thor might pull a Lunatik on him and bash his head in with his own board.

You mean healing from a wound means someone got no damage from a dented skull? How amazing!!

And I asked what about it? Nobody said it didn't hurt thor.

First thing first, he was more powerful than ever against Thor in first fight by Loki himself, nearly killed Thor with a warning shot by his own admission, knocked out a stunned thor with one attack in the same issue where he is supposed to be weaker and got oneshotted twice when he isn't supposed to be.

He did? In which comic? When he got drained like always and got oneshotted? Yeah, he was classic surfer all the same. Not when surfer has the worst record against energy draining among all the high heralds. By inductors? Because panther just randomly copied Doom's inductor based draining device and drained him like always.

And annihilation amp never stuck. Why? Classic surfer has better feats than that. That doesn't excuses getting oneshotted by Karnilla or getting impaled by an Aleph robot.

Now you're just flip-flopping. Its a cheapshot in every way. Just because Thor does it all the time doesn't means its not. Nope. Cheapshots means every shot where a character got surprised attacked and isn't prepared for an attack from behind.

He fought smartly and cheapshotted the enemy I'd say. He did it against magneto and Logan of all people called him out on using a dirty tactic.

Nope. You're simply obfuscating a very simple idea.

Between what actually?

Which Thor shattered and was holding back by surfer's own admission. He also lost to Bill in B&T and Bill beat the shit out of the same Thor who beat surfer in Surfer's own comic no less. By cheapshotting him. When Bill cheapshotted surfer while being wounded he KTFO surfer in two hits. Sure.

You said stormbreaker couldn't counter surfer's attacks when it did just that.

That tells us that the "depowered" surfer was just him not able to absorb power efficiently under earth's atmosphere.

Retcon what in that? Surfer never mentioned Sonic Shark in SS 2. In the same comics he tells us how cosmos "replenishes" his strength.

But if you want to know where was surfer's power returned exactly to him, here it is told just after SS 18 in continuity.

There you go, surfer absorbed back all the power it had absorbed from him. Its the same sonic shark BTW.

Happy?

Already did.

Asgard is in a different dimension sure, but the depowered state was only on earth. And his mergence with Loki made him explicitly more powerful than ever.

So it matters little that he was depowered or not.

What?

Eh, I sure as heck don't get schooled by say carver in my superman knowledge.


Oops, I posted the same scan twice. Here is the correct scan where surfer re-absorbs his power.

http://i.imgur.com/fTIZsMb.jpg

One-Punch B-Class Hero

Originally posted by abhilegend
Holy wall of text Batman!!!

What's wrong? Don't like reading? Make sense based on your misleading interpretations of the comic.

Haha, its cute how you think that.

You think the truth is cute? Okay.

Surfer cried out in pain by his own shot on mars, Thor didn't.

Surfer ramming Thor into Mars and saying it hurt is proof that Thor was whooping Surfer's ass? What kind of garbage argument is that?

He didn't need to. He was just that damn durable that he could tank those love taps all day long.

Yeah that's why when the board was about to hit him the third time Thor was like "oh f*ck."

Its in-character for surfer for a long time, it doesn't always proves so good for him though. Thor might pull a Lunatik on him and bash his head in with his own board.

He had plenty of chances in their first fight, didn't happen. He had plenty of chances their recent fight, didn't happen. Instead the board kept being shoved up Thor's butt, almost literally.

You mean healing from a wound means someone got no damage from a dented skull? How amazing!!

😂

Fraction's Surfer doesn't have a skull to fracture, he's been show to turn into f'ing liquid, snow, cold air, and expand his head like a balloon. Bottom line is that dent did no lasting damage. I'll repeat so you understand, it did no lasting damage.

And I asked what about it? Nobody said it didn't hurt thor.
Is your memory that bad. You tried passing that initial head-butt as proof that Thor was whooping Surfer, even though that head-butt hurt Thor too with all that blood running down his face.

First thing first, he was more powerful than ever against Thor in first fight by Loki himself, nearly killed Thor with a warning shot by his own admission, knocked out a stunned thor with one attack in the same issue where he is supposed to be weaker and got oneshotted twice when he isn't supposed to be.

Surfer only said he felt powerful because of Loki's amp. But again, Surfer was depowered just prior to his first fight with Thor.

His depowerment was referenced in SS #2 http://i.imgur.com/1U7f4b3.jpg?1

He never regained his power in SS#3

And he fought Thor with Loki's amp in SS #4

He did? In which comic?

On his official website.

When he got drained like always and got oneshotted? Yeah, he was classic surfer all the same. Not when surfer has the worst record against energy draining among all the high heralds. By inductors? Because panther just randomly copied Doom's inductor based draining device and drained him like always.

We're talking about the arm bar here, not being drained. A high herald being armbarred is clearly PIS and can't be used in this forum. Surfer's not immune to being drained by super geniuses with prep. But neither are Galactus or Beyonder. 🙄

And annihilation amp never stuck.

Prove it. Or this another one of your countless baseless statements?

Why? Classic surfer has better feats than that. That doesn't excuses getting oneshotted by Karnilla or getting impaled by an Aleph robot.

Classic Surfer also has more low feats as well. You should know, you made it a hobby to collect low-feats for herald characters. 😱

Good thing we look at averages here.

Now you're just flip-flopping. Its a cheapshot in every way. Just because Thor does it all the time doesn't means its not. Nope. Cheapshots means every shot where a character got surprised attacked and isn't prepared for an attack from behind.He fought smartly and cheapshotted the enemy I'd say. He did it against magneto and Logan of all people called him out on using a dirty tactic.

See when you accuse me of flip-flopping it just proves you either have no reading comprehension or you just can't be bothered to read the text. My definition of cheapshot has been consistent this entire thread. Let me put it in terms that grade school kids can understand:

My definition = if a character surprise attacks someone from behind before a fight starts, that is a cheap shot

Your definition = if a character can't see the attack.

Based on your definition Invisible Woman's entire powerset is based on cheapshots, same with Super Skrull using her powers, same with Multiple Man surrounding his enemies with duplicates, same with Cyclops bouncing his optic blasts off walls.

If someone attacked Kitty and she phases through them, she should definitely not attack them from behind. She should wait for them to turn around and then attack. Other whys it's a cheapshot. Genius

I say all of the above are fair game as long as the fight has already started.

Nope. You're simply obfuscating a very simple idea.

No, more like your definition of cheapshot is asinine. Stop trying to perpetuate it.

Between what actually?

Can't help you see if you refuse to open your eyes.

Which Thor shattered and was holding back by surfer's own admission.

So? After he broke the force-field he was blasted into the ground and at Surfer's mercy. Read the scans, they're right above you.

He also lost to Bill in B&T and Bill beat the shit out of the same Thor who beat surfer in Surfer's own comic no less. By cheapshotting him. When Bill cheapshotted surfer while being wounded he KTFO surfer in two hits. Sure.

What happened to Surfer in BT was a real cheap-shot from Bill. Surfer was flying with the Infinity Watch and having a conversation with them when Bill initiates the fight by surprise attacking him from behind.

Remember my definition = if a character surprise attacks someone from behind before a fight starts, that is a cheap shot

You said stormbreaker couldn't counter surfer's attacks when it did just that.[quote]
No didn't. I clearly said Storm Breaker and Mjolnir are not auto-wins against Surfer. I said the hammers can't counter EVERYTHING Surfer throws at them like some people are implying. Again, reading comprehension. Please don't skim through posts. You need to read them carefully, just like you should with comics too.

[quote]That tells us that the "depowered" surfer was just him not able to absorb power efficiently under earth's atmosphere.


No it doesn't. Stop making sh*t up. That scan in no way retcons his depowerement or even makes the slightest reference to his depowerement.

All it says is that the ozone blocks some energy, so he gathers energy another way, which burned a hole in the ozone. Again, reading comprehension.

Retcon what in that? Surfer never mentioned Sonic Shark in SS 2. In the same comics he tells us how cosmos "replenishes" his strength.

He clearly references his depowerement in SS #2

😂

Are you serious? You're trying to pass that scan as Surfer being back to full power? Surfer was making a statement about how he doesn't get energy from food like tea, he gets it from the cosmos.

But if you want to know where was surfer's power returned exactly to him, here it is told just after SS 18 in continuity.

http://i.imgur.com/fTIZsMb.jpg

There you go, surfer absorbed back all the power it had absorbed from him. Its the same sonic shark BTW.

Happy?

Now who's flip flopping? You said that Surfer was restored to full power during his fight with Thor. Now you post scans that supposedly show that he was restored to full power much later after the fight (multiple volumes later).

Asgard is in a different dimension sure, but the depowered state was only on earth. And his mergence with Loki made him explicitly more powerful than ever.

No it wasn't. You haven't proved that at all. He wasn't restored to full power when he went to Asgard. It was Loki's power added to his own that made him more powerful.

So it matters little that he was depowered or not.

Of course it matters. If he was at full power and had Loki's amp, he would've devastated Thor a lot worse. But he was permanently weakened before fighting Thor, but had Loki's amp. It puts the fight into perspective.

Earlier Khazra claimed Surfer amped with Loki's power still lost to Thor. When it turned out Surfer was winning, and was also permanently depowered before the fight. This is why context matters, we get people saying false BS, and everyone accepts it.

Eh, I sure as heck don't get schooled by say carver in my superman knowledge.

No but you get schooled by Rage, Bran, and even Galan and have your "myth busts" myth busted, and have your Superman feats either discredited or toned down to reality. 😛

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by One-Punch
What's wrong? Don't like reading? Make sense based on your misleading interpretations of the comic.
This again? You are repeating the same "misleading interpretation" argument? Sad.

You think the truth is cute? Okay.
Your delusions are.

Surfer ramming Thor into Mars and saying it hurt is proof that Thor was whooping Surfer's ass? What kind of garbage argument is that?
Surfer raging out and only able to hurt himself rather than Thor while Thor dents his skull and no sells his point blank blast means Surfer was getting his ass kicked.

Yeah that's why when the board was about to hit him the third time Thor was like "oh f*ck."
Was he?

He had plenty of chances in their first fight, didn't happen. He had plenty of chances their recent fight, didn't happen. Instead the board kept being shoved up Thor's butt, almost literally.
That's because Fraction Thor is a retarded brute. Thor kep shoving mjolnir up surfer's ass regularly too.

Fraction's Surfer doesn't have a skull to fracture, he's been show to turn into f'ing liquid, snow, cold air, and expand his head like a balloon.
So he's martian manhunter lite? Big deal, J'onn gets his head punched in often enough as it is.
Bottom line is that dent did no lasting damage. I'll repeat so you understand, it did no lasting damage.
You can repeat it as much you want, it would change nothing. By that definition nothing would beat hulk or wolverine because they can heal damage.

Is your memory that bad. You tried passing that initial head-butt as proof that Thor was whooping Surfer, even though that head-butt hurt Thor too with all that blood running down his face.
Thor's forehead was bloody, surfer's forehead was ****ing caved in. He healed back but who got worse by that attack is obvious to everybody but you.

Surfer only said he felt powerful because of Loki's amp. But again, Surfer was depowered just prior to his first fight with Thor.
And Loki said he is more powerful than ever. Without the amp Loki said he was no match for Thor at all.

His depowerment was referenced in SS #2 http://i.imgur.com/1U7f4b3.jpg?1

He never regained his power in SS#3

And he fought Thor with Loki's amp in SS #4

Which made him more powerful than ever.

On his official website.

That's invalid per rules here. He was backtracking anyway.

We're talking about the arm bar here, not being drained. A high herald being armbarred is clearly PIS and can't be used in this forum.
But both happened under the same writer, why is one PIS and other isn't?
Surfer's not immune to being drained by super geniuses with prep.
With inductors? Pretty much classic surfer.
But neither are Galactus or Beyonder. 🙄
Not with inductors. Johnny wielded his power and he didn't note any increase in surfer's power either.

Prove it. Or this another one of your countless baseless statements?
Name one another instance where surfer mentioned his amp. Heck even in Annihilation its mentioned that Galactus merely restored his power, not augmented it. Its not my job to prove it didn't stuck, its your job to prove it stuck. Fraction made that surfer would be weakened away from earth but in Infinity there was no mention of it.

Classic Surfer also has more low feats as well. You should know, you made it a hobby to collect low-feats for herald characters. 😱
Nothing as low as armbarred by Black Panther though.

Good thing we look at averages here.
We do, not herald fans though. Surfer is back where he always was.

See when you accuse me of flip-flopping it just proves you either have no reading comprehension or you just can't be bothered to read the text.
I called it flip-flopping because you are applying different standards for surfer and Thor.
My definition of cheapshot has been consistent this entire thread. Let me put it in terms that grade school kids can understand:

My definition = [b]if a character surprise attacks someone from behind before a fight starts, that is a cheap shot

And you're ****ing wrong. Move on.

Your General definition = if a character can't see the attack.
That's right.

Based on your definition Invisible Woman's entire powerset is based on cheapshots, same with Super Skrull using her powers, same with Multiple Man surrounding his enemies with duplicates, same with Cyclops bouncing his optic blasts off walls.
You are grasping at straws now. Stop this foolishness.

If someone attacked Kitty and she phases through them, she should definitely not attack them from behind. She should wait for them to turn around and then attack. Other whys it's a cheapshot. Genius
If she phases someone from behind its most assuredly a cheapshot. Have you like ever read an X-men comic?

I say all of the above are fair game as long as the fight has already started.
Nope.

No, more like your definition of cheapshot is asinine. Stop trying to perpetuate it.
Stop. You are just being inane at this point with nonsensical analogies.

Can't help you see if you refuse to open your eyes.
Right back at ya.

So? After he broke the force-field he was blasted into the ground and at Surfer's mercy.
While he was holding back his power while surfer wasn't. He is a peer of Thor and he can bring Thor down if he gets his shots in. That was never in dispute.
Read the scans, they're right above you.
Funny thing coming from you.

What happened to Surfer in BT was a real cheap-shot from Bill. Surfer was flying with the Infinity Watch and having a conversation with them when Bill initiates the fight by surprise attacking him from behind.
While Bill was heavily weakened and wounded. But that's ignored, right?

Remember my definition = if a character surprise attacks someone from behind before a fight starts, that is a cheap shot
Did I ever say bill didn't cheapshotted surfer?

No it doesn't. Stop making sh*t up. That scan in no way retcons his depowerement or even makes the slightest reference to his depowerement.
Of course it does.

All it says is that the ozone blocks some energy, so he gathers energy another way, which burned a hole in the ozone. Again, reading comprehension.
Which he did just recently as FF discovered. "Recent depletion" of ozone layer means surfer just recently discovered ozone layer blocked the rays an he blasted a hole in it. That absolutely retcons why he seemed weaker.

He clearly references his depowerement in SS #2

Depowerment but not by a specific being. In FF 74 he described it because he was denied the power of endless cosmos, not because he was drained by sonic shark.

Are you serious? You're trying to pass that scan as Surfer being back to full power? Surfer was making a statement about how he doesn't get energy from food like tea, he gets it from the cosmos.
Nah, it was to show that when he went back to space after galactus' barrier, his strength is replenished. Your reading comprehension sucks.

Now who's flip flopping? You said that Surfer was restored to full power during his fight with Thor. Now you post scans that supposedly show that he was restored to full power much later after the fight (multiple volumes later).
I made a mistake as I remembered the scene taking place after SS 2. Honest mistake bro, that scene took place after SS 18.

http://i.imgur.com/RScydNw.jpg

"Merely hours ago."

No it wasn't. You haven't proved that at all. He wasn't restored to full power when he went to Asgard. It was Loki's power added to his own that made him more powerful.
And that's all that matters. He was more powerful than ever and even then he agreed that mjolnir>>PC.

Of course it matters. If he was at full power and had Loki's amp, he would've devastated Thor a lot worse. But he was permanently weakened before fighting Thor, but had Loki's amp. It puts the fight into perspective.
And what that perspective would be?

Earlier Khazra claimed Surfer amped with Loki's power still lost to Thor. When it turned out Surfer was winning, and was also permanently depowered before the fight. This is why context matters, we get people saying false BS, and everyone accepts it.
Surfer wasn't losing to Thor but he was more powerful than ever and still claimed mjolnir>>PC. Not hard to imagine what Stan had in mind.

No but you get schooled by Rage, Bran, and even Galan and have your "myth busts" myth busted, and have your Superman feats either discredited or toned down to reality. 😛 [/B]
Totally false.

uhuh

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member

Originally posted by One-Punch
Of course it matters. If he was at full power and had Loki's amp, he would've devastated Thor a lot worse. But he was permanently weakened before fighting Thor, but had Loki's amp. It puts the fight into perspective.

Earlier Khazra claimed Surfer amped with Loki's power still lost to Thor. When it turned out Surfer was winning, and was also permanently depowered before the fight. This is why context matters, we get people saying false BS, and everyone accepts it.

I thought one of the main reasons Surfer was depowered was because of Galactus' barrier, no? Loki specifically broke through Galactus' barrier and took Surfer to Asgard which allow him to access the Cosmic energies he would normally be denied.