Two things: the novelists didn't augment Vader's power. George Lucas always had Vader at that power level. He did not exhibit it much during the movies because Lucas said he didn't want to depict Vader as being too powerful otherwise it would not fit in with the storyline of him being Palpatine's puppet. There IS an endless supply of the Force, but Vader wouldn't necessarily be capable of tapping into it because eventually he would tire if he tried to do too much at once.
That is asinine, lol. Vader has no way of harming Doom? You really don't know Vader very well at all, that's pretty obvious. 'Home-court advantage' does have a part to play in this because if Doom is caught off-guard and he doesn't know where he is or what's around him, he's basically screwed. It's apparent you don't understand lightsabers or the Force, because there is nothing in Doom's arsenal that can destroy his lightsaber, which can be used to block virtually anything Doom can throw at him, as can his own powers as Gilgamesh noted; not to mention Vader has the power to kill Doom from a considerable distance. Having the emperor nearby makes no difference, he doesn't need him.
Doom is not protected from telekinesis, he may have some sort of forcefield to protect him from thrown objects *I don't know*, but the Force Choke is not actually a product of telekinesis. Telekinesis is the act of moving energy from a distance, Vader is not moving anything, he is simply taking control of the windpipe and crushing it. You cannot block that. Before I was saying it could go either way, now I'm saying Vader hands down for the simple fact that none of you seem to know anything about him...
Originally posted by wrathofachilles
there is nothing in Doom's arsenal that can destroy his lightsaber
I saw Anakin's lightsaber squashed in the Clone Wars, I'd say Doom has more power than one of those metal-squashy things. 🤣 All I can go by is the movies, so I'm probably the least qualified person to talk about Vader. I'm just saying.
Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Two things: the novelists didn't augment Vader's power. George Lucas always had Vader at that power level. He did not exhibit it much during the movies because Lucas said he didn't want to depict Vader as being too powerful otherwise it would not fit in with the storyline of him being Palpatine's puppet. There IS an endless supply of the Force, but Vader wouldn't necessarily be capable of tapping into it because eventually he would tire if he tried to do too much at once.
George Lucas did not exhibit the powers of Vader much during the movies because George Lucas had no idea Star Wars (the first one) would become so successful. If you think he had a masterplan in his head, with detailled biographies of the past and future of every character, forget it.
Much later, he realized something like : hey, this Vader dude seems pretty popular, damn, I should made him even more impressive. Ah well, nevermind, I'll fix his powers in the comics and the novels. So he is very powerful, but you just don't see it in the movies.
Yeah right... 😛
I didn't say he had a detailed biography. The simple fact remains he SAID himself that Vader was always more powerful than he portrayed him as in the movies. He even said he included Grand Moff Tarkin for the simple fact that he wanted a bureaucrat that helped to balance out Vader's authoritarian rule. He said it was no fun if you had one super-powered villain with nobody to keep him n check. I disagre completely, but that's what he did. He doesn't write the novels anyway. That's just the way it is. You really don't want to get into a Vader debate with me, I grew up with him, hell I modeled my life on the guy!
Originally posted by Krissy Von Doom
I saw Anakin's lightsaber squashed in the Clone Wars, I'd say Doom has more power than one of those metal-squashy things. 🤣 All I can go by is the movies, so I'm probably the least qualified person to talk about Vader. I'm just saying.
Yes but Anakin is nowhere near as disciplined as Vader. That was one of the selling points of the first trilogy, the fact that Anakin is too reckless. Vader isn't going to allow Doom to get ahold of the lightsaber, and besides which, he would leave it on.
Someone as tough as Doom is going to be choked to death? That's a little unbelievable. How long do you think it takes for the average person to pass out from that? And Doom's not an average person. In that time, Doom would have turned Vader into a puddle of goo or a stain on the wall. Or what if Doom uses magic to turn Vader into a mouse or teleport himself away (if Vader's choke is effective) or use the crimson bands to subdue him and break his concentration?
And if telepaths have a difficult time getting past Dooms armour and into his head, how would Vader's force-choke do it?
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Contradiction!
No it isn't. The process of telekinesis is not controlling something from a distance, it's moving something across a distance. Vader isn't moving anything. He can and has, but the force choke is not a reflection of telekinesis, it's just a reflection of his control over the Force.
Originally posted by Krissy Von Doom
Someone as tough as Doom is going to be choked to death? That's a little unbelievable. How long do you think it takes for the average person to pass out from that? And Doom's not an average person. In that time, Doom would have turned Vader into a puddle of goo or a stain on the wall. Or what if Doom uses magic to turn Vader into a mouse or teleport himself away (if Vader's choke is effective) or use the crimson bands to subdue him and break his concentration?And if telepaths have a difficult time getting past Dooms armour and into his head, how would Vader's force-choke do it?
Again, you don't know much about Vader if you think Doom is going to 'turn Vader into a puddle of goo.' No way in hell would that happen. Period. Vader is NOT a telepath; this isn't some mutant power or anything, it is the Force. The Force is not going to be stopped by Doom's armor, plain and simple. You cannot use Doom's rules in the Marvel Universe in the Star Wars Universe, that is why these match-ups don't work. My entire point in my posts is to explain to Doom-fanatics who know nothing about Darth Vader how their arguments are invalid because Doom is not going to be the automatic victor. Vader may block against virtually any attack Doom has and possibly vice versa. Doom isn't turning Vader into anything.
Originally posted by Cosmo Kramer
Throw all of your posts out the window! As a matter of fact whose to say any of the comic characters of the World wouldnt be able to learn the ways of the force. If that prick Luke Skywaulker can then whose to say DareDevil, Spiderman, Nightwing, or even Jimi Hendrix couldnt.
He's not a prick genius. He's the son of the Chosen One. That's why he was so in tune to the ways of the Force.
Originally posted by wrathofachilles
No it isn't. The process of telekinesis is not controlling something from a distance, it's moving something across a distance. Vader isn't moving anything. He can and has, but the force choke is not a reflection of telekinesis, it's just a reflection of his control over the Force.
Umm, it still sounds like telekinesis to me.😐
Well I guess it would if you don't know what telekinesis is, I don't know how to explain it any further. Telekinesis is moving an object across a distance. Vader isn't moving anything across a distance by choking someone. He is crushing a person's windpipe. If anything, it's psychokinesis rather than telekinesis.
Originally posted by wrathofachilles
I didn't say he had a detailed biography. The simple fact remains he SAID himself that Vader was always more powerful than he portrayed him as in the movies. He even said he included Grand Moff Tarkin for the simple fact that he wanted a bureaucrat that helped to balance out Vader's authoritarian rule. He said it was no fun if you had one super-powered villain with nobody to keep him n check. I disagre completely, but that's what he did. He doesn't write the novels anyway. That's just the way it is. You really don't want to get into a Vader debate with me, I grew up with him, hell I modeled my life on the guy!
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Star Wars and The Empire strikes Back, but when he wrote down the story of Star Wars, he hadn't a clue about the real Anakin Skywalker. Vader was just an impressive bad guy with a cool helmet, and with some tricks upon his sleeve. Why should he concern himself with writing down all the powers and so of Vader ? There was never meant to be a second and third movie, so why bother ?
But when the years passed by (how poetic) and the popularity of Vader grew and grew, each time Vader appeared in a Star Wars novel or a Star Wars comic, he was - or at least seemed - more dangerous than before (I'm exaggerating, I know, but just to give you the idea). Exactly the same with Boba Fett by the way ! In the second and third movie, he was a not that impressive mercenary with only a few lines, and thanks to his popularity, he's become the most dangerous and feared bountyhunter ever, who ever battled Vader once and walked away alive.
I just don't by the "I planned everything"-theory Lucas came up with years later because it's not true.
Back to topic: Doom has more than enough weapons in his armour to completely destroy Vader. Vader can be hit just like you and me (happened a lot in the movies when he was fighting his son), he felt it, and I don't think it's a secret Doom will hit 20 times harder.
Is someone still using the Lightsaber as an argument? Didn't I aquash that idea 10 pages back?
Lightsaber = energy
Doom with an energy absorption grid on his armor, much like Ironman's, would completely take the lightsaber out of the battle. The ONLY thing Vader has is the Force, and that would only help him so much.
damn, i havent posted in over 10 pages (i think) and STILL the exact same arguements are being used by BOTH sides. GOOD GOD! Okay, doom would OWN the lightsabre, plain and simple. But Doom has no protection against the force choke. Why? Because it's not telekenisis. Its not crushing the windpipe. In the comics/novels it says that the "force choke" is actually draining the life force directly out of the victim. Its not suffocating them, but the sensation they feel as the very essense of their life is escaping their body is very similar to suffocation, hence they act as if they couldn't breathe.