Vader Vs. Dr. Doom

Originally posted by who?-kid
Well, Lucas can say whatever he wants. The fact remains (and this is a fact) that Lucas absolutely had no idea the first SW movie would become so popular. The story he had written, was nothing special, just some kind of fairy tale : young boy rescues princess from the dark sorcerer. It had a beginning, middle and a clean end.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Star Wars and The Empire strikes Back, but when he wrote down the story of Star Wars, he hadn't a clue about the real Anakin Skywalker. Vader was just an impressive bad guy with a cool helmet, and with some tricks upon his sleeve. Why should he concern himself with writing down all the powers and so of Vader ? There was never meant to be a second and third movie, so why bother ?

But when the years passed by (how poetic) and the popularity of Vader grew and grew, each time Vader appeared in a Star Wars novel or a Star Wars comic, he was - or at least seemed - more dangerous than before (I'm exaggerating, I know, but just to give you the idea). Exactly the same with Boba Fett by the way ! In the second and third movie, he was a not that impressive mercenary with only a few lines, and thanks to his popularity, he's become the most dangerous and feared bountyhunter ever, who ever battled Vader once and walked away alive.

I just don't by the "I planned everything"-theory Lucas came up with years later because it's not true.

Back to topic: Doom has more than enough weapons in his armour to completely destroy Vader. Vader can be hit just like you and me (happened a lot in the movies when he was fighting his son), he felt it, and I don't think it's a secret Doom will hit 20 times harder.

Actually, no, he did have a back story. He just didn't have a backstory to make three movies, that's why he had to go back and write them for the new trilogy. He always had the origin of Anakin in his mind, from the very beginning. He also always had a higher power level for Anakin/Vader in his mind, and he STILL hasn't shown it, even in the new movies. Anakin is not depicted at near his capability, and never will be evidently. Lucas pays more attention to his discipline than raw power.
Also, Lucas always had in mind to make the original trilogy, he just wasn't sure if the first one would be very successful. He didn't come up with Empire and Return after Star Wars was successful. You don't have to buy the theory, it's not a theory. It's a fact and has been for years. I've known this for twenty years, as have many. As for Fett, that's entirely different as Lucas didn't write his story. He was never an important character. Novelists wrote his story. Lucas wrote the story of Anakin Skywalker from the beginning, novelists cannot touch that without his permission.

Doom does not have enough weapons because Vader would not likely let him get close. If Doom cannot fight with a lightsaber he isn't going to get in a hand-to-hand confrontation with him. He was hit fighting his son because it was a sword-fight. Vader can deflect any blast Doom sends against him.

Originally posted by Kontraz
damn, i havent posted in over 10 pages (i think) and STILL the exact same arguements are being used by BOTH sides. GOOD GOD! Okay, doom would OWN the lightsabre, plain and simple. But Doom has no protection against the force choke. Why? Because it's not telekenisis. Its not crushing the windpipe. In the comics/novels it says that the "force choke" is actually draining the life force directly out of the victim. Its not suffocating them, but the sensation they feel as the very essense of their life is escaping their body is very similar to suffocation, hence they act as if they couldn't breathe.

Thank you. You said it better than I did, lol. Hopefully people will get it now.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
No it isn't. The process of telekinesis is not controlling something from a distance, it's moving something across a distance. Vader isn't moving anything. He can and has, but the force choke is not a reflection of telekinesis, it's just a reflection of his control over the Force.

Although Kontraz says it's not crushing at all, crushing a windpipe involves no movement? It's not closing the distance between the walls?

Telekinesis is the act of moving energy from a distance, Vader is not moving anything, he is simply taking control of the windpipe and crushing it.

Crushing is an action that involves movement. If Vader didn't wasn't moving it, he wouldn't be crushing it. If he was crushing something, he'd be moving that object inward on itself. Contradiction!

Tele involves moving an object rather than psycho which is manipulation of energy. It's not a contradiction, it's a scientific explanation.

It's a contradiction because you said he doesn't move anything but crushes, which is a movement. He doesn't move anything, he just moves it.

Primo : the overrated force-choke is not the most effective weapon against Doom, because it's quite slow (like most Force-stuff by the way). And if it were that simple, Vader is invincible, he can just choke anyone who crosses him. And yet, he doesn't. Strange.

Secundo : Vader can deflect laser blasts, sure, he did it in the movies. But since when does Doom attack with some lousy little laser shooter ? He has some pretty impressive weapons in his armor, enough to destroy a little moon, I even read once. Vader is no little moon and Doom only needs, what, 2 seconds to aim and shoot his all-destroying and big beam to Vader, like he did with Magnus and Warlock. I'd like to see Vader deflect an all-destroying beam the size of a horse with his hands 😉.

Tertio : Vader needs his armor, without it, he's weakened. Doom doesn't. The moment Doom knows the armor of Vader really is a life-support system, he will destroy it.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Primo : the overrated force-choke is not the most effective weapon against Doom, because it's quite slow (like most Force-stuff by the way). And if it were that simple, Vader is invincible, he can just choke anyone who crosses him. And yet, he doesn't. Strange.

Secundo : Vader can deflect laser blasts, sure, he did it in the movies. But since when does Doom attack with some lousy little laser shooter ? He has some pretty impressive weapons in his armor, enough to destroy a little moon, I even read once. Vader is no little moon and Doom only needs, what, 2 seconds to aim and shoot his all-destroying and big beam to Vader, like he did with Magnus and Warlock. I'd like to see Vader deflect an all-destroying beam the size of a horse with his hands 😉.

Tertio : Vader needs his armor, without it, he's weakened. Doom doesn't. The moment Doom knows the armor of Vader really is a life-support system, he will destroy it.

Primo: why kill someone instantly with a force choke when you can make them suffer? I mean, if it felt like every cell in doom's body was about to explode, i dont think doom would just stand there and try to fight, honestly.

Secundo: Anikan (pre-vader, as in his "weaker" self) ABSORBED (not deflected, absorbed, which is much harder) a direct blast from a turbo-lazer, which is capable of destoying cities in a single blast...

Tertio: irrelivant. Its a given vader would most likely lose with out his armor. Let's just say they both get their armor and not go back into that one...

Doom was dissected alive by the Beyonder, and still stole his power. His armor was peeling off, his flesh was coming off, and his body was being torn apart, by the -omnipotent- Beyonder. You think a choke hold/life sucking thing is going to crush Doom's determination to win?(since when was it "every cell is about to explode"? What happened to "life draining"? Or did you add that to make it sound worse?) You severely underestimate the Good Doctor.

well, seeing as even mediocre siths are able to cause sensations of pain throughout the foe's body with relative ease, i don't think vader would have much trouble doing it either...

o god, who reserected this thread.

doom has vader beat. doom doenst need a bigass starship that blows up planets to take over a world, he took over the world like twice, all by himself, and every thing he used he built, and earths beings are way stronger than anything in starwars

doom also has a funky little death ray capable of vaporizing thor in one shot.

yea what the hell?...why is this back up for discussion, i thought i totally stomped out this argument. Doom, the master of technology and robotics in a universe of vastly more developed technology get beaten by a guy with a mediocre robot body and a ventilator and questionable health?...ur kiding right?...Doom would not need to fight him straight up...he could use nanotech or EMP to disable Vader's sh!tty @ss body...or he could contaminate Vader's ventilator...Vader has the immune system of a 70yr old AIDS patient, Doom could infect him with some nasty bacteria or something...all the while Vader is distracted with trying to lightsaber or "Force" Doom to death. Doom's hand to hand fighting skills r not bad, um he did kill a lion with his bare hands when a celestial stripped him of his armor and tech...i dont even think wolverine could do that with no claws...no matter how many lasers Anakin has absorbed, Doom's armor is at a minimal strong enough to let him engage any opponent on the planet. His base armor was able to take on Terrax when he was ressurected by Doom's technology with the cosmic power of Silver Surfer Doom stored on a previous occasion...granted Tyros still beat him in that armor. Doom was also able to engage Hyperstorm's monster for a brief period with his base power. Hyperstorm's monster was easily the strongest creature on the planet at the time...Doom said he hadnt encountered a being of such power since the beyonder i think....ill have to check the issue

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
It's a contradiction because you said he doesn't move anything but crushes, which is a movement. He doesn't move anything, he just moves it.

It is NOT a contradiction, you're not listening. Tele involves moving an object across a distance, the Force Choke is not moving an object across a distance, it is manipulating energy. It's not about 'moving' something, it's about causing something to happen from a distance, no movement of objects required. Choking someone is not moving something.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Primo : the overrated force-choke is not the most effective weapon against Doom, because it's quite slow (like most Force-stuff by the way). And if it were that simple, Vader is invincible, he can just choke anyone who crosses him. And yet, he doesn't. Strange.

Secundo : Vader can deflect laser blasts, sure, he did it in the movies. But since when does Doom attack with some lousy little laser shooter ? He has some pretty impressive weapons in his armor, enough to destroy a little moon, I even read once. Vader is no little moon and Doom only needs, what, 2 seconds to aim and shoot his all-destroying and big beam to Vader, like he did with Magnus and Warlock. I'd like to see Vader deflect an all-destroying beam the size of a horse with his hands 😉.

Tertio : Vader needs his armor, without it, he's weakened. Doom doesn't. The moment Doom knows the armor of Vader really is a life-support system, he will destroy it.

He does choke everyone. He chokes anyone who isn't Obi-Wan or Luke because they're Force-users. It's not going to work so easily on them, and besides which, Vader is a warrior. He's not going to cheat, that would give him no satisfaction whatsoever.

What big beams does Doom have in his armor? Like I said, we're not talking about Doom bringing an arsenal of weapons with him. This is a hand-to-hand battle. I never said Doom wasn't capable of blowing Vader away with his weapons, I'm saying Vader is capable of deflecting his blasts. That's the point of the 'it could go either way' argument.

Again, the armor argument is ridiculous. You can't have Vader fight without his armor, anyone can beat him without it. Besides, yes Doom can destroy the armor, but that's where Vader's deflecting and Force abilities come in. He can breathe on his own long enough to kill Doom anyway if he were to lose control of his life-support system.

Originally posted by crazyspinz
o god, who reserected this thread.

doom has vader beat. doom doenst need a bigass starship that blows up planets to take over a world, he took over the world like twice, all by himself, and every thing he used he built, and earths beings are way stronger than anything in starwars

Virtually none of this makes sense. Doom doesn't need a bigass starship to take over the world? Nor does Vader. But this isn't a 'who can take over the world faster' argument. Earh beings are way stronger than anything in Star Wars? First of all, not true. Certain heroes on Earth are stronger than anything in Star Wars, but any average 'earth being' is not. Besides, this is Doom vs. Vader, not Earth beings vs. Star Wars beings. None of these arguments supports anything.

Originally posted by Wynndar
yea what the hell?...why is this back up for discussion, i thought i totally stomped out this argument. Doom, the master of technology and robotics in a universe of vastly more developed technology get beaten by a guy with a mediocre robot body and a ventilator and questionable health?...ur kiding right?...Doom would not need to fight him straight up...he could use nanotech or EMP to disable Vader's sh!tty @ss body...or he could contaminate Vader's ventilator...Vader has the immune system of a 70yr old AIDS patient, Doom could infect him with some nasty bacteria or something...all the while Vader is distracted with trying to lightsaber or "Force" Doom to death. Doom's hand to hand fighting skills r not bad, um he did kill a lion with his bare hands when a celestial stripped him of his armor and tech...i dont even think wolverine could do that with no claws...no matter how many lasers Anakin has absorbed, Doom's armor is at a minimal strong enough to let him engage any opponent on the planet. His base armor was able to take on Terrax when he was ressurected by Doom's technology with the cosmic power of Silver Surfer Doom stored on a previous occasion...granted Tyros still beat him in that armor. Doom was also able to engage Hyperstorm's monster for a brief period with his base power. Hyperstorm's monster was easily the strongest creature on the planet at the time...Doom said he hadnt encountered a being of such power since the beyonder i think....ill have to check the issue

You didn't 'stomp' out anything. You seem to think you know how it would go down, that doesn't mean you're right. This is not Vader the cancer patient. This is Vader the Chosen One, the master of the Force, the Dark Lord of the Sith. His 'mediocre robot body with questionable health' means nothing. Doom is all screwed up too inside his armor. It's not a beauty contest. Nor is it a who can disrupt whose life-support system. Infecting Vader with bacteria is not how a fight would go down and anyone with common sense knows this. Doom is just as much a warrior as Vader and he's going to fight him, not give him a virus. Furthermore, killing a lion means nothing. People always use that argument. Normal humans can kill a lion if sufficiently trained. Anakin can control beasts anyway so that wouldn't matter. Nobody said Doom wasn't a trained hand-to-hand fighter, but he is not a match for Anakin/Vader in a hand-to-hand match. He is significantly stronger yes, but again, the fight would likely end before either one got ahold of the other. It could end with Doom disrupting Vader's armor and leaving him there to die, or it could end with Vader crushing Doom's body within his armor. No technology Doom has is going to protect his own body when Vader can manipulate the energy around him. Again, this fight is not one-sided and is not as clear to you as you think. That's just the way it is.

Actually, Doom isn't "screwed up" in his armour. Only his face.

Right, but what difference does it make which one needs their armor more? Like I said, if Doom disrupted Vader's armor, he could win, but Vader also is capable of surviving for a limited period of time without it, so it may not make a difference. The armor is pretty irelevant.

I didn't say anything about anyone needing their armour more, I'm only disagreeing when you said Doom is screwed up in his armour like Vader because that's just a false statement.

I didn't mean exactly like Vader, I just mean he hides his scars with his armor like Vader. I didn't imply it was also used as a life-support system like it is for Vader.