i agree, movie version gets owned (unless episode III shows something insanely amazing... but then again, movie doom might not be all that bad-ass, either...)
I think this is a very even fight going on the comic versions, but if its comic doom vs movie vader, theres not a chane vader could win. Cant wait for episode III and Fantastic 4 movies to come out... then we can have a good movie vader vs movie doom fight
Originally posted by Kontraz
i agree, movie version gets owned (unless episode III shows something insanely amazing... but then again, movie doom might not be all that bad-ass, either...)
well i saw the 1994 unreleased (for very good reason) Fantastic Four movie...... it sucked ballz Doom was absolutely f*cking useless..... as was everyone else
forget Vader, Jar Jar could have killed that movie version of Doom
Originally posted by demigawd
The structure of their suits are entirely different. The tech is entirely different. IM is walking tech - that's why he's so big and bulky. Doom is more barebones - he has some basic weaponry and one hell of a shield. That's like assuming that because IM has a proton canon that Doom has one too. The reason we know IM has a self-repairing mechanism is because he's shown it. For all we know, Doom is so confident in his shielding that he wouldn't need to put one in. Either way, you can't just assume that because someone else has a suit of armor with something that Doom has it too. Unless Doom has shown self-repair capabilities, he doesn't have it.
Doom isn't actually basic, that's what I'm trying to say. Anyone who's actually read the comics knows that's why Doom is lethal. Because his suit just looks like a suit of armour, it's not. We all know this.
Well that depends on how well you know Doom's character, seeing as that's what we're going by too. Judging by Doom's character, I believe he would almost definately have something like that. You don't, I respect that.
Originally posted by demigawd
But metal is still metal. Welding is still welding. When Thing ripped him apart, smashing his gauntlets and ripping the wires out of him, we saw...they're still just metal and wires. They're wired to do incredibly advanced things, but the base elements are exactly the same. Again, there's no reason one arrangement of metal and wires (automated door) could bend to the Force but another (suit of armor) can't. And it's not like Doom force-proofs his armor the way he may proof it against psi attacks....he doesn't even know what The Force is.
The force is the most overrated entity there is. Doom doesn't know what it is, fair enough. Vader doesn't know Doom or his abilities, so we're even.
Vader has pulled the odd door off a starship, yes. I've read a good amount of Star Wars comics (or I wouldn't comment), nothing I've seen impresses me to the degree that I think "Wow he could beat Doom by doing that". Because what's realistic to one set of writers isn't to another. You said yourself, on this forum, we are the writers. I won't go into that, my point is, you I don't equate pulling doors off (which Hulk could do) to being able to pull off Doom's armour. Just not a logical step.
Originally posted by demigawd
Well, without his gun, what are some of the weapons he can use against Vader?
Are you asking me because you don't know or asking me for the sake of it?
Originally posted by demigawd
that's step one. Step two is to crush his gauntlets. Step three - start disabling his armor.
You have quite the habit of, against Doom, saying that the person could do this this and this and then win. Which is as unrealistic as you can get, especially with someone of Doom's calivre. If Vader's MASK so much as ruptures, he's dying.
Originally posted by demigawd
But if Vader's been able to deflect far more powerful blasts, what's Doom going to do that he can't defect?
It took a toll on him, and he only deflected one. If it kept firing he'd be dead.
Originally posted by demigawd
He not going to just be standing there blocking all day - he has his own offensive capabilities. Doom isn't going have the chance to keep pelting Vader.
So says you though. You believe something I do not, you believe that the force is the deciding factor. I do not.
Originally posted by demigawd
This coming from the guy who found nothing wrong with Torch flaming on in space? Pfft. I could say I noticed the exact same thing about you, lol.
Considering the man was made that way in space, no.
Originally posted by demigawd
Well, on THIS Vs. board that would be true. Doom gets an unusual amount of combat respect here. I've been on other boards where people would unianmously vote for Warlock in both fights. It's all subjective - but there's nothing in comic canon that makes Doom more or less likely to repeat against Warlock than Spider-Man.
Besides the fact that he's actually the more powerful character? Ok then.
-AC
heres your quote, right after i mentioned moving the fleet from the nova...
"Vader has pulled the odd door off a starship, yes. I've read a good amount of Star Wars comics (or I wouldn't comment), nothing I've seen impresses me to the degree that I think "Wow he could beat Doom by doing that". Because what's realistic to one set of writers isn't to another. You said yourself, on this forum, we are the writers. I won't go into that, my point is, you I don't equate pulling doors off (which Hulk could do) to being able to pull off Doom's armour. Just not a logical step."
so, looks like i'm not lying at all....
you said that he pulled off a door, and then said that you throw out a lot of arguements because some writers dont agree with it... umm.. you're argueing for a marvel character, do you realize just how screwed up marvel continuity is???? And who are you to decide which of the comics are acceptable for an arguement? As i said, you ignored my example and replaced it with your own, weaker version to better your arguement...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Doom isn't actually basic, that's what I'm trying to say. Anyone who's actually read the comics knows that's why Doom is lethal. Because his suit just looks like a suit of armour, it's not. We all know this.
But Doom's default weapons are only his gun, which Vader would disarm, and his gauntlet, which by default only shoots extreme amounts of electricity. What are some of his other default weapons that he always has? And no, I'm asking asking to be rhetorical, lol.
The force is the most overrated entity there is. Doom doesn't know what it is, fair enough. Vader doesn't know Doom or his abilities, so we're even.
The difference is it's not that hard for Vader to react to projectile shooting on the fly - when I said "basic" earlier, I mean Doom uses gun and projectile weapons and things of that sort. Doom's default weapons don't include pocket nukes, or anti-matter or fusion bombs or anything that Vader would never be able to react to. On the other hand, Doom has never encountered the Force - he'd have no way in a non-prep fight to create the means of proofing his armor against being crushed like a can.
Vader has pulled the odd door off a starship, yes. I've read a good amount of Star Wars comics (or I wouldn't comment), nothing I've seen impresses me to the degree that I think "Wow he could beat Doom by doing that". Because what's realistic to one set of writers isn't to another. You said yourself, on this forum, we are the writers. I won't go into that, my point is, you I don't equate pulling doors off (which Hulk could do) to being able to pull off Doom's armour. Just not a logical step.
The door-pulling off thing was just an example. My grand total of experience in the comic star wars universe is about a day and a half with some trades, so for more sophisicated feats, I'll defer to some of the other SW posters. Kontraz has already given a great example of the extent of Vader's Force powers. I'm fully confident that someone with the power to move a fleet of starships away from a supernova is able to crush or remove iron and wires off a man.
You have quite the habit of, against Doom, saying that the person could do this this and this and then win. Which is as unrealistic as you can get, especially with someone of Doom's calivre. If Vader's MASK so much as ruptures, he's dying.
Well, you're the one saying that Doom would shoot and shoot and shoot as though Vader will do nothing in response. I'm just saying what Vader could do, as you say what Doom could do. I don't have to play both sides, do I?
It took a toll on him, and he only deflected one. If it kept firing he'd be dead.
But none of Doom's default weapons have that kind of firepower. More powerful than a laser gun? Sure. Anywhere near as powerful as a cannon? Absolutely not. So Vader could deflect Doom's shots for as long as he needs to close in or start affecting Doom's armor.
So says you though. You believe something I do not, you believe that the force is the deciding factor. I do not.
I call it a deciding factor because Doom's forcefield is usually the universal saving grace for Doom. the Force counters the Forcefield. If Vader didn't use Force telekinesis and Doom didn't use his forcefield, I'd still give the victory to Vader because of how easily it's sliced through metal.
Considering the man was made that way in space, no.
So? He was bombarded by cosmic rays from space - doesn't mean he should be able to flame on in space.
Originally posted by Kontraz
you said that he pulled off a door, and then said that you throw out a lot of arguements because some writers dont agree with it... umm.. you're argueing for a marvel character, do you realize just how screwed up marvel continuity is???? And who are you to decide which of the comics are acceptable for an arguement? As i said, you ignored my example and replaced it with your own, weaker version to better your arguement...
What the hell....? I never said I throw out stories depending on writers. Where in God's name are you getting this? I said that SOME writers have different ideas of what realistic is. Then followed it with, 'I won't go into that'. Stop falsifying things.
Screwed up Marvel continuity? All we ever see in the comics OR the movies, is Vader walking around, performing the occasional feat with the alleged force that has never been seen. The force is the product of one man and one man only. Doom has done many things under many different writers that remain consistant.
I never ignored your example. If telling yourself that makes you sleep better, rock and roll 😆.
-AC
Actually not going to get into another essay exchange with you on a thread such as Doom Vs Vader, but I'll reply to that which is relevant.
Originally posted by demigawd
But Doom's default weapons are only his gun, which Vader would disarm, and his gauntlet, which by default only shoots extreme amounts of electricity. What are some of his other default weapons that he always has? And no, I'm asking asking to be rhetorical, lol.
His gauntlets don't fire ONE type of energy, they fire multiple types of varying intensity.
Originally posted by demigawd
difference is it's not that hard for Vader to react to projectile shooting on the fly - when I said "basic" earlier, I mean Doom uses gun and projectile weapons and things of that sort. Doom's default weapons don't include pocket nukes, or anti-matter or fusion bombs or anything that Vader would never be able to react to. On the other hand, Doom has never encountered the Force - he'd have no way in a non-prep fight to create the means of proofing his armor against being crushed like a can.
Oh? Doom's suit doesn't involve any kind of bomb? I suggest you review some of his appearances in the New Avengers my friend.
Originally posted by demigawd
The door-pulling off thing was just an example. My grand total of experience in the comic star wars universe is about a day and a half with some trades, so for more sophisicated feats, I'll defer to some of the other SW posters. Kontraz has already given a great example of the extent of Vader's Force powers. I'm fully confident that someone with the power to move a fleet of starships away from a supernova is able to crush or remove iron and wires off a man.
Exactly, I read Star Wars comics for about 5 months. Vader never done anything so impressive that would suggest he can beat Doom via armour removal. You haven't read the comic and you're gonna assume that it's dead true? There were men piloting the ships, Vader didn't solely move them away from the star. It wasn't as superb as him moving the fleet on his own, decisively.
Originally posted by demigawd
But none of Doom's default weapons have that kind of firepower. More powerful than a laser gun? Sure. Anywhere near as powerful as a cannon? Absolutely not. So Vader could deflect Doom's shots for as long as he needs to close in or start affecting Doom's armor.
Besides Doom's body swap technique that you seem to have forgetten, he doesn't just have beams and stuff. He has explosive methods.
Originally posted by demigawd
I call it a deciding factor because Doom's forcefield is usually the universal saving grace for Doom. the Force counters the Forcefield. If Vader didn't use Force telekinesis and Doom didn't use his forcefield, I'd still give the victory to Vader because of how easily it's sliced through metal.
Of course it's not. Why do you assume that just because you think Doom is at one level, we all adhere to it? His forcefield is a large asset yes, it's not the be and end all of his repetoire, by a long stroke.
In summation, your belief that Vader would win is purely based on removing his armour with the force. I don't buy into "the force".
-AC