Originally posted by DigiMark007
If this is what you think I said, you didn't read all of it. It's the "how" of it that holds people up, because there's various ways to tackle the problem, and no easy solution...but the general aim is the same. So is it a moral issue? Sure. But not in the sense that there's disagreement morally...simply logistically.
I happen to know that guy...and he knew exactly what you were saying. As do I (also disagreeing).
Originally posted by DigiMark007
If this is what you think I said, you didn't read all of it. It's the "how" of it that holds people up, because there's various ways to tackle the problem, and no easy solution...but the general aim is the same. So is it a moral issue? Sure. But not in the sense that there's disagreement morally...simply logistically.
The Bible- A Violent Book
Let me make it Clear, that the Bible is indeed full of Wisdom. There are wondorful quotes such as "Treat others the Way Thou Wish to be Treated" and "Love Thy Neighbor"
But for every beautiful and loving quote, you can also find a hateful and violent one:
The Bible is not perfect. It is entirely fallible. IT is simply human word, human tradition, human wisdom and emotion. There is no way an All-Loving God inspired it 100%.
If the All-Loving Father exists, then Either God only inspired parts of it, or God is both Good and Evil.
Let us begin: This is the Evidense which shows how Violent, Unreasonable, and Malignant the Bible can be:
************************************************************
(Deuteronomy 3:1-7 NLT)******
"Next we headed for the land of Bashan, where King Og and his army attacked us at Edrei. But the LORD told me, 'Do not be afraid of him, for I have given you victory over Og and his army, giving you his entire land. Treat him just as you treated King Sihon of the Amorites, who ruled in Heshbon.' So the LORD our God handed King Og and all his people over to us, and we killed them all. We conquered all sixty of his towns, the entire Argob region in his kingdom of Bashan. These were all fortified cities with high walls and barred gates. We also took many unwalled villages at the same time. We completely destroyed the kingdom of Bashan, just as we had destroyed King Sihon of Heshbon. We destroyed all the people in every town we conquered – men, women, and children alike. But we kept all the livestock for ourselves and took plunder from all the towns."
(Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)*******
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything.
(Leviticus 21:16-23 NLT)
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Tell Aaron that in all future generations, his descendants who have physical defects will not qualify to offer food to their God. No one who has a defect may come near to me, whether he is blind or lame, stunted or deformed, or has a broken foot or hand, or has a humped back or is a dwarf, or has a defective eye, or has oozing sores or scabs on his skin, or has damaged testicles. Even though he is a descendant of Aaron, his physical defects disqualify him from presenting offerings to the LORD by fire. Since he has a blemish, he may not offer food to his God. However, he may eat from the food offered to God, including the holy offerings and the most holy offerings. Yet because of his physical defect, he must never go behind the inner curtain or come near the altar, for this would desecrate my holy places. I am the LORD who makes them holy."
(Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.
(1 Corinthians 14:33-35 NAB)
As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church.
(Luke 14:26 NAB)
If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he can not be my disciple.
(1 Samuel 19:9-10 NAB)
Then an evil spirit from the Lord came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with spear in hand and David was playing the harp nearby. Saul tried to nail David to the wall with the spear , but David eluded Saul, so that the spear struck only the wall, and David got away safe.
(Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NLT)
If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity.
(Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.
(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
(Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
(2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.
Dry Statement: What a shocking revelation.
Statement: The "little children" harassing Elisha were probably around eighteen years of age--the term has been used otherwise in Scripture and has such a meaning--and they were both mocking Elisha and telling him to die.
Statement: Some theologians believe that there was violence implied in the threats, though that cannot be ascertained.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Dry Statement: What a shocking revelation.Statement: The "little children" harassing Elisha were probably around eighteen years of age--the term has been used otherwise in Scripture and has such a meaning--and they were both mocking Elisha and telling him to die.
Statement: Some theologians believe that there was violence implied in the threats, though that cannot be ascertained.
My goal is not to antagonize or attack you or your religion.
However, if you claim that your Bible is infallible, and that you speak absolute truth in your Faith, then I will challenge that.
I am a Buddhist, but even I question my own religion, even I try to make sense of what I learn everyday. And I invite all who question, challenge, or investigate my religion to do so.
The Bible preaches violence as part of its teachings. There is no denying it. I can supply you with dozens more references of scripture from the Bible which will promote and encourage violence and intolerance of some form.
This thread was created so that myself and others don't have to constantly bring up this point in every other thread. I will keep it here, any violence in regard to the Bible and its teachings will stay here in this thread.
But as long as another Christian claims thier Faith and Bible is infallible, or claims that the Christian-Judeo God is pure "Love" or pure "Peace", I will constantly challenge that claim with this thread.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Statement: The "little children" harassing Elisha were probably around eighteen years of age--the term has been used otherwise in Scripture and has such a meaning--and they were both mocking Elisha and telling him to die..
Question # 1- So that's enough justification to chop the kids into pieces ? 😬 🤨
Question # 2- How do you explain everything else ?
I agree, but perhaps God was just getting his little funsies out. After all, it is known that man was made in the image of God, therefore, God must not be perfect. He may have simply become frustrated with the people of Bashan, not saying it's justifiable, simply saying that I believe that God is not above emotion, or we would be emotionless.
Originally posted by FeceManThat would have been an awfully old age to be called a child back then.
Dry Statement: What a shocking revelation.Statement: The "little children" harassing Elisha were probably around eighteen years of age--the term has been used otherwise in Scripture and has such a meaning--and they were both mocking Elisha and telling him to die.
Statement: Some theologians believe that there was violence implied in the threats, though that cannot be ascertained.
Originally posted by lord xyz
YouTube video
Yeah... I read the bible and say to myself,"Self: why does he set everything up for failure." Like "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" in the book of genesis, why is it even there? Only to temp... I'm not talking about the symbolic interpretation. I know why man wrote it into the story and that is only to show there are consequences to breaking the rules. Why would a "god" do it? Mankind would be nothing but playthings to a god. We couldn't possibly have any real value to something that omnipotent... It would be incomprehensible.
Re: The Bible- A Violent Book
Originally posted by SpearofDestinyI'm Christian, and of course the Bible is fallible, it was made by man, and man are stupid.
Let me make it Clear, that the Bible [b]is indeed full of Wisdom. There are wondorful quotes such as "Treat others the Way Thou Wish to be Treated" and "Love Thy Neighbor"But for every beautiful and loving quote, you can also find a hateful and violent one:
The Bible is not perfect. It is entirely fallible. IT is simply human word, human tradition, human wisdom and emotion. There is no way an All-Loving God inspired it 100%.
If the All-Loving Father exists, then Either God only inspired parts of it, or God is both Good and Evil.
Let us begin: This is the Evidense which shows how Violent, Unreasonable, and Malignant the Bible can be:
************************************************************
(Deuteronomy 3:1-7 NLT)******
"Next we headed for the land of Bashan, where King Og and his army attacked us at Edrei. But the LORD told me, 'Do not be afraid of him, for I have given you victory over Og and his army, giving you his entire land. Treat him just as you treated King Sihon of the Amorites, who ruled in Heshbon.' So the LORD our God handed King Og and all his people over to us, and we killed them all. We conquered all sixty of his towns, the entire Argob region in his kingdom of Bashan. These were all fortified cities with high walls and barred gates. We also took many unwalled villages at the same time. We completely destroyed the kingdom of Bashan, just as we had destroyed King Sihon of Heshbon. We destroyed all the people in every town we conquered – men, women, and children alike. But we kept all the livestock for ourselves and took plunder from all the towns."
(Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)*******
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything.
(Leviticus 21:16-23 NLT)
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Tell Aaron that in all future generations, his descendants who have physical defects will not qualify to offer food to their God. No one who has a defect may come near to me, whether he is blind or lame, stunted or deformed, or has a broken foot or hand, or has a humped back or is a dwarf, or has a defective eye, or has oozing sores or scabs on his skin, or has damaged testicles. Even though he is a descendant of Aaron, his physical defects disqualify him from presenting offerings to the LORD by fire. Since he has a blemish, he may not offer food to his God. However, he may eat from the food offered to God, including the holy offerings and the most holy offerings. Yet because of his physical defect, he must never go behind the inner curtain or come near the altar, for this would desecrate my holy places. I am the LORD who makes them holy."
(Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.
(1 Corinthians 14:33-35 NAB)
As in all the churches of the holy ones, women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church.
(Luke 14:26 NAB)
If anyone comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he can not be my disciple.
(1 Samuel 19:9-10 NAB)
Then an evil spirit from the Lord came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with spear in hand and David was playing the harp nearby. Saul tried to nail David to the wall with the spear , but David eluded Saul, so that the spear struck only the wall, and David got away safe.
(Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NLT)
If two Israelite men are fighting and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, her hand must be cut off without pity. [/B]
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
[b]Question # 1- So that's enough justification to chop the kids into pieces ? 😬 🤨[/b]
Statement: Elisha had just removed the curse Joshua had put on Jericho's water.
Statement: The men involved were pagans, worshiping Baal.
Corollary: The men were mocking and taunting a man who had done good work in the name of God.
Conclusion: The men were indirectly making an affront to God, challenging His power.
Statement: Yes, they deserved it.
Question # 2- How do you explain everything else ?
Statement: By leaving the worshipers of false gods alive, the Israelites would undoubtedly become tainted by their presence and some would be seduced into turning from God. Furthermore, God did not allow the Israelites to keep any spoils from many battles.
Rhetorical Query: If the possessions owned by those pagans were so tainted to God, how more greatly tainted would the actual worshipers be?
Statement: FeceMan will address the other verses, but he requires foodstuffs to think coherently.
Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
The Bible- A Violent BookLet me make it Clear, that the Bible is indeed full of Wisdom. There are wondorful quotes such as "Treat others the Way Thou Wish to be Treated" and "Love Thy Neighbor"
But for every beautiful and loving quote, you can also find a hateful and violent one:
The Bible is not perfect. It is entirely fallible. IT is simply human word, human tradition, human wisdom and emotion. There is no way an All-Loving God inspired it 100%.
If the All-Loving Father exists, then Either God only inspired parts of it, or God is both Good and Evil.
Let us begin: This is the Evidense which shows how Violent, Unreasonable, and Malignant the Bible can be:
**************************************************
**********
If Feceman were here he'd point out all the moments of killing were entirely justified.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Rhetorical Query: A challenge to God, mocking His chosen servant?Statement: Elisha had just removed the curse Joshua had put on Jericho's water.
Statement: The men involved were pagans, worshiping Baal.
Corollary: The men were mocking and taunting a man who had done good work in the name of God.
Conclusion: The men were indirectly making an affront to God, challenging His power.
Statement: Yes, they deserved it.
Statement: In the other verses recording violence, the Israelites were at war with the nations.
Statement: By leaving the worshipers of false gods alive, the Israelites would undoubtedly become tainted by their presence and some would be seduced into turning from God. Furthermore, God did not allow the Israelites to keep any spoils from many battles.
Rhetorical Query: If the possessions owned by those pagans were so tainted to God, how more greatly tainted would the actual worshipers be?
Like so. All I can say is thank GOD we don't live in a time when taunts justify death, and, apparently, being tainted pagans also justifies death.
And so... did the advocation and action of slaughtering all these people and wiping out their nations with no mercy what so ever because they may have infected the Israelites with foul heathery pay off, thus allowing the Israelites to be a bulwark of correct faith in God for ever and ever Amen?
This has always interested me, since it read less as the words of an all loving father and more of a general leading the sack of Carthage, or a Mongol Horde:
20:10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. (20:10-11)
20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Yes, the good old days when the chosen ones where the chosen ones and could kill entire nations because they had the divine right.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Rhetorical Query: A challenge to God, mocking His chosen servant?Statement: Elisha had just removed the curse Joshua had put on Jericho's water.
Statement: The men involved were pagans, worshiping Baal.
Corollary: The men were mocking and taunting a man who had done good work in the name of God.
Conclusion: The men were indirectly making an affront to God, challenging His power.
Statement: Yes, they deserved it.
Statement: In the other verses recording violence, the Israelites were at war with the nations.
Statement: By leaving the worshipers of false gods alive, the Israelites would undoubtedly become tainted by their presence and some would be seduced into turning from God. Furthermore, God did not allow the Israelites to keep any spoils from many battles.
Rhetorical Query: If the possessions owned by those pagans were so tainted to God, how more greatly tainted would the actual worshipers be?
Statement: FeceMan will address the other verses, but he requires foodstuffs to think coherently.
To sum up what you are saying:
"Yes, if someone beleives the wrong thing, slaughtering them is justifiable"
"If kids mock an adult, it would be justifiable to chop those children into pieces"
So basically if a group of Hindu or Buddhist, or even Atheist kids make fun of an adult Christian, then those children should be hacked to death.
*This is why Christianity needs to stay out of Government. Thanks for proving my point Feceman.
If anyone wants to really know the Bible, try this website: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/