Originally posted by NoFate007
oh wait, forgot to comment on this: "A very complicated way of saying what Lucas has said a number of times: there is balance when there is no Dark Side i.e. no Sith, if the Sith are there the Force is out of balance. It hasn't got much to do with scales or even sides. Lucas is trying some sort of spiritual balance and that in the SW universe is LIGHT ONLY."What I was talkin about is that since there are the light side fighers (Jedi) and the dark side fighters (Dark Jedi), then there's another dark side fighter (Sith). So there are 2 fighters for the Dark side and only one for the light, but with the destruction of the Sith then its only one on the light side and one on the dark side. If Anakin had found a way to destroy all Dark Jedi and the Sith would exist, then it would still be in balance because then it would be one on the light side (Jedi) and one on the dark side (Sith), with the third one out of the party.
Now, back to the thread, lol
Again: Lucas doesn't use scales for balancing the Force... There's no number crunching on that, it's a spiritual thing.
Originally posted by Sith Master X
The force pushing droids does seem like an attack on the droids, but it could aslo be considered defense because the droids are trying to kill them as well. Just depends on how you look at it.
not "how you look at it" smx,
droids attack, then kenobi force pushes them. had he not defended himself,
the outcome would have been him getting shot.
yoda means that you cant just pick a fight when you are a jedi. unless you are being attacked, or the lives of the innocent are threatened by that particular being, you must find a peaceful solution.
Yup, sorry nofate, you have that all wrong.
And PVS is correct. Jedi carry lethal weapons- Lightsbares are not subdual devices. Jedi accept the fact that they sometimes have to fight and kill as part of their job in defending the Galaxy. A lightsabre kills someone pretty darn harshly; using the Force as a weapon is not fundamentally dsifferent- though powering it with dark emotions would be. Just because Yoda was pointing out that Jedi do not aggressively seek conflict, this does NOT make them pacifists! They are fighting a war, after all...
the whole idea of jedi being non-agressive often frays at the edges....check how much obi wan enjoys killing that praying mantis thing in the arena....real satisfaction there.....it happens a lot, particularly obi wan.....
on the topic of luke being susceptible to the dark side, i always thought this was meant to be the case.....this is why yoda sends him into the cave on dagobah, and explains what he encounters there....i always thought when obi and yoda were worried about luke facing vader too soon, that this was as much (if not more) of a concern than him simply being killed.....
he's had a hell of a lot less training than your average 6 year old padawan, and yet he's expected to face a challenge that is too great even for yoda.....on top of that he's got "too much of his father in him".....impatience, and a certain tendency to stray towards the dark path....
he's nowhere near a sith in rotj, and he's an extremely good natured guy in general, but he's so inexperienced, and so lacking in the frame of reference of being around other jedi that he wouldn't even know using the force choke was a bit odd....he's flying blind.....
and throwing away his sabre in the final duel.....he's either incredibly intuitive, incredibly lucky, or damn stupid....
feel like watching return of the jedi now.....
I'm sure the Force chokehold wasn't something Yoda taught. Unless its okay to do it like Luke did- just a quick move to get an aggressor to back off but with minimal harm? That's actually better than Kenobi's uhhh..... disarming opponents.
Luke throws away the saber after he looks at Vader's stump, then his own replacement hand and realizes he's about to follow the same path and become what he's fought against. I'm sure he didn't know the Emperor could throw lightning at him and he'd have no defense. Like guiro72 said he was flying blind. Although Yoda tells him to beware the Emperor's power or he'd suffer his father's fate.
Originally posted by queeq
Who says a force choke is a dark side thing????? Bloody EU...
its just a common sense thing queeq, does lucas have to explain everything?
(vader force choking admiral ozzel) "i am now tapping into the dark side of the force to kill you ozzel, not the light side, mind you"
whenever a force choke is shown, it is vader doing it, and there is an ominous earthquake-type sound thundering. also, the victim struggles, as opposed to dropping right away.
and is the novel based on the script considered EU?
Luke does use the choke for a second on that Gammorean in Jabba's palace, but for just a second to get it to back off. Intent is a large part of what makes something a dark side move. Obi-Wan takes off someone's arm and cuts another guy in half, who knows what he'll do to Grievous? But you would accept that he's not dark? Intent.
im looking for an old classic commercial
it was for the throat lozenges/cold treatment sweets called "tunes"
it was a star wars theme and had vader stalking around the imperial meeting table with all the generals. he is breathing in the crazy vader tones and one of the generals says..."ahem...excuse me...lord vader...perhaps you should try these" and pulls out a packet of tunes and vader proceeds to force choke him
anyone sees this on the net , lei me know or link the bich
TY
Originally posted by PVS
its just a common sense thing queeq, does lucas have to explain everything?(vader force choking admiral ozzel) "i am now tapping into the dark side of the force to kill you ozzel, not the light side, mind you"
whenever a force choke is shown, it is vader doing it, and there is an ominous earthquake-type sound thundering. also, the victim struggles, as opposed to dropping right away.
and is the novel based on the script considered EU?
did Vader wanted to kill all his officers with a choke when they weren't performing like he wanted? yes! he kills them, he has the intention of doing them harm
the force feat or how you wanna call it is always strictly neutral, it depends on who uses it with which intentions you do it, if it is to harm someone, it's bad, if not, it's not
Originally posted by PVS
its just a common sense thing queeq, does lucas have to explain everything?(vader force choking admiral ozzel) "i am now tapping into the dark side of the force to kill you ozzel, not the light side, mind you"
What a lousy argument. Vader ignites a light sabre... Is taht tapping into the Dark Side too? Just because VAder does something doesn't make it a strcitly Dark Side thing. The canon doesn't mention, as far as I know but please correct me if I'm wrong, the Force Choke being a Dark Side thing. So why conclude Luke taps into the Dark Side...? 😕
What is this strange idea that Luke has to be 'taught' Grip as if the way it works is that people attend lessons and the teacher says "Hi kids, today we are going to learn force power x or y..."
Power with the Force includes a certain amount of effective telekinesis. Luke learns to push and pull without any teaching- one can conclude it is a natural power.
There is nothing special about grip. It is not a special 'anti-person' power. It is simply that exact same telekinesis being used to squeeze a throat. Doesn't have to be a throat- couuld just as easily be an arm, leg or even a carrot. It probably takes fine control to do it so delicately over such a specific area, but in essence, how can the ability to squeeze be innately evil?
It is what you DO with potentially lethal things that counts, and as yerssot says, Luke is not using it to torture or kill.
no it doesnt! i'm right, your wrong, and thats that.
just kidding...ush has a good point, but the igniting lightsaber arguement is weak. the point is about using the force to attack one who is not the aggressor. as ush pointed out, luke may have been using it to simply stun the guard...the question is...is that an act of aggression...maybe yes, maybe no.
the other question is, do they condone such methods in the jedi order?
i guess when i think force choke, i think force lightning. you never see jedi using force lightning do you? would have been quite handy in that geonosis arena wouldn't it? so howcome noone uses it? would you guys think that its a darkside technique?
i would hope so, because otherwise, what are the perks to being evil?
Originally posted by PVS
no it doesnt! i'm right, your wrong, and thats that.just kidding...ush has a good point, but the igniting lightsaber arguement is weak.
No, it's not. The only reason you say Force Choking is bad is because you see Vader doing it.
Originally posted by PVS
the other question is, do they condone such methods in the jedi order?
i guess when i think force choke, i think force lightning. you never see jedi using force lightning do you? would have been quite handy in that geonosis arena wouldn't it? so howcome noone uses it? would you guys think that its a darkside technique?
I see Luke choking, where else would he have learned that but from Yoda? And as USh said, it's the same thing as lifting objects and squeezing a carrot. Indeed, we haven't seen Jedi using Force LIghtning, but that doesn't prove anything. I saw Yoda doing some amazing stuff with fireballs...
The evil is not so much what trciks they have up their sleeve but for what purpose they use it. evil is in the heart.