he's refering to why Luke was chosen to be the first choice to go against Vader and the Emperor. And I agree Nefarus, that was pretty sound logic there. Leia did seem rather disgusted with the whole Vader being Luke's father thing, mainly because she was a member of the senate and brought up by Bail, so she more than new of Vader's murderous and evil acts. Makes perfect sense.
Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
Obi-Wan knows Anakin and he knows what Darth Vader is. He knows that if there is even the tiniest bit of Anakin under the armor Luke would have a better chance of returning Anakin to the light. Leia would most likely remind him of painful memories of Padme and how she was against him in the end.
Luke however, is very much like Anakin when he was young. Impulsive, thrilled by adventure and they each wield an incredible power that makes it hard for them to be patient. I mean afterall it is Vader's love for his son that saves him in the end, and I think only Luke could have done it. If you notice, Luke never gives up hope on Vader, sure he gets pissed and chops his arm off, but Luke couldn't kill his father, and Vader as evil as he is, could never kill Luke.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I think it is almost impossible for Obi-Wan not to know about Leia. And Obi-Wan went into seclusion AFTER the events of the Twin's birth. If you are saying that Obi-Wan and Organa never talked from the time Obi-Wan got his hands on Luke onwards, presumably running off 30 seconds before Leia was born... then how the heck did Organa know where Obi-Wan was???No, tje situation was this. The good guys end up after the main events of Episode III in custody of the two twins. Kenobi and Organa decide it is wise to split the twins up for safety. Obi-Wan agrees to take Luke, and Organa hangs onto Leia, and the two of them part, with Obi-Wan telling Organa where he will be, and the other way around being obvious,
You guys, Look! Its simple, the fact of the matter is we will not know untill the movie is released. Lets keep this a polite conversation between friends. We all have our opinions, lets just keep it nice.
OK so the way I see it, the children are born AFTER Padme is dead this explaines the long time frame between births. Luke is born first, Obi Wan, Yoda and everyone present think that he is the only one. After Obi Wan leaves with baby Luke They figure out there is a second child. This one being who else but Leia. She is then handed over to Bail Organa.
Thats just the way I amagine it. I could be wrong.
Originally posted by captainmidnight
dude your starting to sound like suttle,your saying one thing then saying another,you started out saying ben was aware of leia,then you say organa would have told ben about leia meaning what,that ben would have known about leia if he told him,well no shit,now your saying how the heck did organa know were obi-wan was...what..what the hell does that mean,i'm sorry your posts are not obvious in fact there completely vague,you wanna know what happens,yoda,organa,and ben arrive on tatooine with luke,the ship takes off,padme then proceeds to give birth to leia,that is why leia is raised by organa becouse the second chid was unexpected,that is why ben is UNAWARE of leia until ESB were yoda explains to him what happened after ben was dropped off on tatooine......
Holy run on sentence Batman.
As far as Padme dying before giving birth. That can't happen. Leia remembers her mother.
Luke "Do you remember your mother?"
Leia "Only images really. She always seemed sad."
That's paraphrasing, but check RotJ.
Originally posted by ryzak620
Holy run on sentence Batman.As far as Padme dying before giving birth. That can't happen. Leia remembers her mother.
Luke "Do you remember your mother?"
Leia "Only images really. She always seemed sad."That's paraphrasing, but check RotJ.
Originally posted by captainmidnight
the pregnancy has been kept a secret,padme does not know there are twins and neither does anyone else,once she starts the labor the ship lands on tatooine,luke is given to the lars family by ben,while departure she gives birth to leia,that is why yoda knows of an other and that is why leia is raised by organa,you should take your own advice and read your posts there,becouse you'll find that you did contradict yourself....MODERATOR
I am sorry, but you are still mis-reading my posts. Read them again carefully; there is no contradiction.
Once she starts in labour, there is no way Obi-Wan cannot know there is another baby after Luke is born.
That's assuming he's in the ROOM when she has them. Which is not like you to assume Ush. Until we find out who's actually present in the room, we don't know for sure who knows. And as far as the FILMS are concerned, it certainly sounds like Obi-wan doesn't know. I believe only Yoda is present. But again, we don't know until we get more information.
He would actively have to not see Padme before AND after the birth for that to happen, meph. You cannot give birth to one twin and then kind of hang around with the other there with no-one noticing. The assumption that he somehow manages to miss the fact she has twins is by far the greater.
And who does he think Leia is? He KNOWS Organa does not have a daughter that age.
Added to which it is still looking possible that Padme dies in advance of all this anyway, in which case both Obi-Wan and Anakin take the Twins and go their separate ways AFTER communicating (else ORgana would not know wehere Ben was, as stated above).
Frankly I need a damn good reason- 1000 times better than that ESB line- to think for a moment that Obi-Wan did not know. The ONLY way in which it works that Obi-Wan does not know is if Padme somehow gives birth to one twin, does not talk to Obi-Wan at all at that point after giving him Luke to look after, and nor does anyone else notice or tell him, and then heads away- still in labour- from Tatooine and then gives birth to the other twin and no-one bothers to get a message to Ben. It;s a stretch, a LONG stretch, and I do not believe it for a moment without backing.
It's not that big of a stretch, Who is to say that he is going to receive Luke from Padme? How do we know Padme is going to be conscious? Couldn't the twins be separated before Obi-Wan gets Luke? The identity of the twins could be so top secret that not even Obi Wan is told of the other. I really don't think that Obi-Wan will know of Leia. Things are going to happen really fast and I think in the rush Obi Wan will leave with Luke Immediately, not waiting to see if there is another.
i think that obiwan felt that luke was the only hope.
luke was the one who could bridge the gap between
anakin and vader. leia grew up as a wealthy princess, while luke
grew up as a tatooine commoner. who would vader relate to more?
luke is governed by the same passions as his father,
his parent(s) were senselessly murdered like his father's,
and he shares his father's talents as well, for example. starpiloting.
i dont recall leia being much of a pilot.
point im making is, it didnt matter who was the more powerful twin.
what mattered was who could bring anakin back to the good side.
who could appeal to him and make him realise the right choice.
when luke struck down the phantom vader, he saw himself in the mask.
i am sure that vader saw a reflection of himself in luke, as he fought him.
i honestly think that is what brought vader back, seeing himself in his son.
just as in the end, luke saw himself in vader, which kept him from striking
his father down.
so its not a sexist thing. its just that luke and anakin are almost identical.
for vader, to kill leia would be to kill his daughter.
but to kill luke would be to kill his son, and himself.
i think obiwan knew all along about leia.
yoda had faith that leia could pick up the task if luke failed.
and why?
because leia could appeal to LUKE.
if luke had failed, vader would be dead, and luke would
be the new darth. thus leia would be the new(er) hope
perhaps ben just felt that if luke turned evil, there would be no more hope.
well, notice how neither obi or yoda say "kill him" directly.
(this is a whole other topic, of which i have seen MONSTER size threads)
the closest either say is when luke says "i cant kill my own father" and
kenobi says "then the emporer has already won"
other than that, there is no talk of killing him.
vader "obiwan once thought as you do"
what if obiwan never stopped thinking that?
remember that obiwan never tells luke what to do,
and he never gives him the answers. "you must do what you feel
is right of coarse." at no point is luke given any orders.
they suggest, but they dont demand.
see, otherwise my problem is this:
1-they know anakin is the all powerful chosen one
2-they know that palpatine is the most powerful dark force, besides vader.
3-luke is inexperienced, as powerful as he is
so, did they really expect luke to be able to kill vader and the emporer single handed? (hehe...unintended funny) if they wanted to simply bum-rush the throne, why not train leia as well...two lightsabers are better than one, right?
i dont think they sent luke in alone, to kill the chosen one.
i think ben knew that anakin was the only one powerful enough to kill sidious.
yoda, i think, had faith that luke could have the power to do so as well.
as much as yoda b!tches at luke, just look as his face when luke manages
to lift his xwing with such limited training. his eyes damn near popped out of
his head. he could not show his amazement to luke though, as it would feed his ego...which is bad.
so i believe that they at least HOPED that vader could be turned.
i think ben had no faith that luke could kill the emporer...only anakin, only the chosen one.
whereas yoda felt that even if luke were to fail, with the help of his sister he could still have the power to turn back to the good side and do the deed.
imho anyway
I agree, that could be the explanation of the line. Lucas called the line a "little gimmick, but it works" in the ESB commentary track. The line about 'no there is another" was basically put in for foreshadowing. Honestly, based on what we know of who's on the ship when the twins are born, it does become hard to believe Ben doesn't know, I mean, he could be somewhere else in the ship. Who knows? I know Lucas used the line as foreshadowing, but maybe Yoda is gonna keep it a secret from Ben for security purposes. This is just one of those issues I feel its pointless to speculate on because the only evidence we have was a quick line written twenty some odd years ago by a writer purely for foreshadowing. So who knows... That's why I find it funny people have such strong opinions on this one way or another when there is really very little evidence either way. Sure a person may feel its ridiculous that he doesn't know, since we haven't seen ROTS and don't know how Lucas will explain it. But at the same time, there's nothing really supporting he doesn't know other than one line. For all we know, Lucas may try to keep Leia a secret so the ROTJ revelation of who she is stays intact. Now I don't think that's a good idea, I'm just pointing out how many ways this could go, and that because of that, we shouldn't be so boldly opinionated in this matter. PVS, your analysis is the best I've seen yet. It could end up being one of those point of view moments Lucas is famous for.