The thousands of Jedi dying over time and never doing it is not THAT much of a pain- it just makes the issue more plot central. So long as he mentions it; and I think we can be fairly sure he will THIS time. To some extent. I hope. -ish.
As soon as we heard QGJ's voice in AOTC- that's the bit that is a pain- I think it was relatively certain that GL was going to look at it more, especially listening to his commentary.
Kershner for President!
Originally posted by darktim1Anakin maintained his original form because when he turned to the dark side he was no longer Anakin. When he returned to the light he reverted back to the last point in time when he was good.
GL said that anakin got to maintain his original being because he was already a jedi when he was young that's what I heard.
i think an important quote from lucas is that
the jedi in episode 3 learn a way to retain their "identity"
see, i find identity to be a strange word for this topic. i think
it alludes to the idea that the jedi lose their identity when they die.
it makes me think of buddhism, in that when one dies, they lose
their identity and become one with the universe. (owtf)
i know im playing the religion card here, but we know that GL
is heavily influenced by eastern hero stories, perhaps he sprinkled
his story with some eastern theology as well...
all i know is that identity is a strong word. it entails everything
a person is, not just whether or not someone else can see/hear them.
I just watched ROTJ with commentary and again Lucas says a few interesting tidbits about this. He says that OB1 and Yoda discover how to do this. And the way he say it, makes it clear that it's exlcusively something OB1 and Yoda master.
Also, I carefully checked out the dying Anakin scene and there are three of four shots with Anakin dead in it. His detah gets more shots than OB1 and Yoda (both only two) and in all his body is still visible. Inculding the very last shot on Luke which tilts down and we see Anakin's nose andface in the foreground. It is all too clear Anakin does NOT diappear upon death. If that was supposed to be that way, I'd expect GL to have changed that.
I also watched AOTC with commentary again, but GL is quite sparse with his comments about that. So... the plot thickens.
i agree queeq.
i need to see/read proof that anakin disappeared.
the camera lingered on him for way too long when he died.
i would think that GL was trying to illustrate clearly that vader
did NOT disappear.
and how do we know that the suit was empty when luke burned him?
it looked strange in the scene...but it was on fire. fire is difficul to control.
perhaps the empty look of the suit was just a lack of filling....
maybe the filling was too combustable and burned away before the
fire grew enough to be filmed?
anyway why the hell would luke give a funeral to a suit?
and an evil suit at that.
i just cant buy it
Me neither. I heard once that McCallum said Anakin disappeared, but McCallum is not a very reliable source when it comes to the intricacies of the SW story. Just listen to the commentaries. He's a great producer, but he worships George and all in all he doesn't seem to 'get' the whole SW thing, aside from really liking it.
Personally having a good look at the DVD, Anakin does NOT NOT NOT NOT disappear. He just doesn't. And if it's so important the HE disappears... why do we see yoda and OB1 disappear, while the ultimate Chosen One for whom it was so darn important that he becomes One with the Force to bring that friggin' balance, does NOT visibly disappear. It just doesn't make any sense. And I'm sure GL would have corrected that in this DVD if he wanted Anakin to disappear. It would have been fairly easy to do.
starwars.com database, character: Darth Vader:
"As he lay dying, Vader ceased to be. Anakin Skywalker returned. He asked his son to remove the cumbersome, fearsome mask that had concealed his face for decades. His mask and life support removed, Anakin looked upon Luke for the first and last time. He then died, his body disappearing into the light side of the Force. Luke burned the dark armor that had encased Anakin's crippled body in a quiet funeral pyre on the forest moon of Endor that night. "
I just watched ANH with the comentary on and Lucas said that Vader did not kill OBI-WAN. He said that he joined the force. From Lukes POV Vader struck him down but OBI-Wan didn't die at all he simply joind the force before Vaders saber struck home. So one does not have to die to join the Force they just have to want to. I believe that that is what Yoda did just before he died.
Originally posted by vergere
starwars.com database, character: Darth Vader:"As he lay dying, Vader ceased to be. Anakin Skywalker returned. He asked his son to remove the cumbersome, fearsome mask that had concealed his face for decades. His mask and life support removed, Anakin looked upon Luke for the first and last time. He then died, his body disappearing into the light side of the Force. Luke burned the dark armor that had encased Anakin's crippled body in a quiet funeral pyre on the forest moon of Endor that night. "
All I can say is: I don't SEE it happening... Plus with GL saying that it is something OB1 and Yoda discover (and probably don't tell the wayward Anakin) then this at SW.com doesn't make sense at all.
And Yoda was dying... "STtrong am I with the Force, but not that strong." And he can hardly pronounce the words... Well, maybe he does, but GL is weaving a web for himself that makes it hard to come out of without losing any credibility. The PT is way too complex as it is, this disappearing thing makes it even worse.
Well, JJ1138, that is the whole point. It's just very confusing how this 'joining the Force" works. GL promised us that AOTC would begin to explain it, but with QGJ's voice it's just gotten worse. It'll HAVE to be explained in ROTS, but the commentaries on the DVD (where he refers to it being explained in the PT) make it all the more confusing. The thing is, disappearing does not seem to be conditional for appearing afetr death. It never wasa problem, until QGJ did not disappear... and since AOTC it is a problem that QGJ is heard despite the fact that he didnt disappear...
But I don't think the disappearing or distruction of the Jedi's body has much to do with it. It seems, based on what Lucas has said in commentaries, that the Jedi, at death, seem to be faced with a choice to either loose their identity and become one with the force, or retain their identity and not join the force enabling them to materialize in the physical world and pass on guidance. And again, outside of Palpatine's era and rise to power, it sounds like everyone remembers things being relatively peaceful and calm. So Jedi who have passed on would accept joining the force. Now Qui-gon might want to stay around with this new threat of the Sith's re-emergance, and watch over Anakin's development. Once all the Jedi are dead, those who know of Luke and Leia's identity would want to hang around to watch over him, I.E. -- yoda and obi-wan. Anakin would want to appear with his fallen masters to show Luke that he did well and everything is ok. They would then probably go and join the force and loose their identites now that they know everything will be okay.
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
It seems, based on what Lucas has said in commentaries, that the Jedi, at death, seem to be faced with a choice to either loose their identity and become one with the force, or retain their identity and not join the force enabling them to materialize in the physical world and pass on guidance.
EXACTLY the point i try to make.
its budhism, the idea of being "One With the Universe" is budhist.
in budhism, you give yourself up, everything that you are, and become
everything/nothing. the jedi find a way to cheat this, and keep their identity.
i have definitely heard that anakin disappears after he dies, and that luke burns an empty suit on endor....i do believe that this may have been decided recently, but even if it was mcallum that said it, i don't think he would just make something like this up by himself and go mouthing off....he would have been given the information by lucas...
i am confused by the qui gon situation also....i desperately want to see him appear in ghost form in ep III, but the explanation better be damn good as well....most likely explanation i heard was that he is the one who works out how to do it and passes this information on to obi wan and yoda....i have also always seen it as an unfinished business situation....dunno....we'll see....
i hope....
yeah, back when I first heard this debate on the forums (a year ago, and I'm sure its wasn't the first time then either) I tried explaining it through Buddhism because it's clearly the source of the idea. The Jedi are Monks/Samurai so it's only natural that their death info would correlate to Buddhism as well.
Oh yeah! Heh heh!
You know PVS, my favorite Quagmire moment: The episode where Meg wants revenge on her friends so her mom helps. Then Meg backs out, gets humiliated, tells her mom she should have listened to her. Then the mom's all 'that's why I had a backup plan'. The doorbell rings to the house of these little teen cheerleaders, and its Quagmire who says "How old are you?". "16". So he's all "18? All right!" Only time potential child molestation has ever been so funny!