Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, I mean having a super duper helmet that renders him immune to mind powers, despite having a gaping face hole in the front of it.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Claremont writes Magneto with a VERY scientific bend. Chuck Austen...not so much. It depends entirely. And since this is a battle board, *I* am the writer (as are you in your scenario), *I* am one of those writers who do care about gravity and electrons and magnetism."With all due respect Claremont and Austen are god awful writers. Absolutely ego driven, self-absorbed idiots.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with writing stories with a more scientific bend. That they're awful writers is YOUR opinion, somehow using that to refute what I wrote is bad form.
I agree on Austen, however. 🙂
I'm lukewarm on Claremont's Uncanny, but I really like his Excalibur.
I just fantasy battles on comparing the powers of the combatants and decide for myself who would have the better shot. Sometimes it requires detail but I just think it's a bit pointless the level of which you go into things.
I'm disappointed to hear that statement, especially from you. You're one of the smarter guys on this board - the idea that you'd prefer the usual, "HULK GETS MADDER AND MADDER UNTIL HE GETS SO MAD HE PWNZ EVERYONE" and "DOOM CAN BUILD AN ANTI-MUTANT DEVICE THAT PWNZ ALL X-MEN" logic to "BB generates electron-based energy which someone who controls EM energy can subvert" saddens me.
The idea that people have resorted to, "Well, you use too much science" when they've given up on using actual debating tactics that combine multiple facets of both comic book and real world ideas is equally saddening. How can I be criticized because I don't just say, "Well, hmm, this guy is REALLLY strong and this guy is SUPER strong", like 95% of the posts on here? Be honest. Is that really all you want? Really?
Also, I'm one of the few posters who actually cite examples from the actual material to prove my point, so it's not like I'm pulling physics into it out of nowhere.
The writers never go into it as much as you do so I, personally, don't see the point.
Patently false. I'll name two examples right now. Storm hit Magneto with lightning, he said, "Lightning is an aspect of EM energy, which I embody". It subsequently made him stronger. In another issue, Magneto was also hit with extreme cold (also by Storm). He said, "The cold simply makes me a living superconductor" and again, it made him more powerful. These are just two examples of comic book science in action - should these writers be criticized for that? So when cite a fight where BB screams at Magneto, and Magneto says, "Your electron energy is an aspect of charged EM energy that I can control" and then redirects it at BB, how is that ANY different from EITHER of those two examples I cited from the comic itself? Short, sweet, science-based. Are you sure you wanna say the writers NEVER go into it as much as I do?
Magneto has one of the most obvious stupid faults in comic history and no one has seemed to notice it. Yet something as in-obvious as the details you go into, are worth mentioning.
Irrelevant. I've never once used his helmet's immunity to telepathy in any fight. In fact, I've never recognized that immunity factor, because it never existed until the X-men movie. After the movie, Grant Morrison decided to pull that concept into the comic.
Nothing necessarily wrong with your methods, just think it's a bit much for fantasy battles IMO.
Again, I ask, do you REALLY prefer the "MAGNETO GET MAD, THROW METAL, PWNZ ALL" posts?
ok - Magneto takes BB's metal antenna off and stabs him with it. Nice and simple.
😠
Originally posted by demigawd
[B]So the effect is pretty well-defined - it creates a shockwave that comes from the disturbance of the particle/electron interaction field. Because Magneto has a broader range of electron control, he would simply prevent that disturbance from taking place, or re-direct the shockwave entirely.
Broad range? He's the "Master Of Magnetism," not Moleculeman. You seem to think he can affect almost anything including interactions between electron. Prevent my butt. Black Bolt is a matter manipulator as well. His scream would kill Magneto. BB > Magneto in power.
What's Magneto ever done? BB's scream overloaded Doom with a Watcher's power. His mere whisper to Hulk and Gladiator's ears have K.O.ed them.
Again, it would be fairly trouble-free for Magneto.
😆 ...the only trouble being Erik will be six feet under that's all.
And by staying true to the science of their powers, Black Bolt can do nothing against Magneto that wouldn't make Magneto more powerful.
More powerful? Right because Doom with Watcher's powers absorbed Black Bolt's powers and was overloaded and thus defeated. And yet you somehow think Magneto will only be more powerful? He'll be dead. If a cosmically powered Doom couldn't contain BB's scream, Magneto's be bleeding out of the pores of his skin.
Originally posted by demigawd
Again, I ask, do you REALLY prefer the "MAGNETO GET MAD, THROW METAL, PWNZ ALL" posts?ok - Magneto takes BB's metal antenna off and stabs him with it. Nice and simple.
😠
Which does absolutely nothing but probably unleashes his powers. Magneto dies even more so if he tried some sh!t like that.
"Irrelevant. I've never once used his helmet's immunity to telepathy in any fight. In fact, I've never recognized that immunity factor, because it never existed until the X-men movie. After the movie, Grant Morrison decided to pull that concept into the comic. "
Was commenting on the character in general. Not this fight.
"Again, I ask, do you REALLY prefer the "MAGNETO GET MAD, THROW METAL, PWNZ ALL" posts?
ok - Magneto takes BB's metal antenna off and stabs him with it. Nice and simple. "
Obviously missed where I said I have nothing against your posts.
-AC
Originally posted by Beyonder
Broad range? He's the "Master Of Magnetism," not Moleculeman. You seem to think he can affect almost anything including interactions between electron. Prevent my butt. Black Bolt is a matter manipulator as well. His scream would kill Magneto. BB > Magneto in power.
Magneto CAN affect interactions between electrons. I've said this before and I'll keep saying it until it's clear - THAT IS HOW HIS SHIELD WORKS. HE EXPLAINED IT HIMSELF. So, to recap - Magneto can affect interactions between electrons, which are (defined by Webster):
an elementary particle consisting of a charge of negative electricity equal to about 1.602 x 10-19 coulomb and having a mass when at rest of about 9.109534 x 10-28 gram or about 1/1836 that of a proton
Hmm? Wha? Huh? Did somebody say...CHARGE? Well, how fortunate, because THAT'S WHAT MAGNETO DOES BEST.
His scream wouldn't kill Magneto - it would make him more powerful, and when Magneto is done getting more powerful, he'll just redirect the rest right at BlackBolt. And I don't think Black can take the hit as well as Magneto can....
What's Magneto ever done? BB's scream overloaded Doom with a Watcher's power.
Congratulations. I don't suppose Doom tried to redirect that power, hmm? Well, that must be why he lost, isn't it?
Magneto beat Phoenix, by the way.
Phoenix > Watcher
Magneto > BlackBolt
His mere whisper to Hulk and Gladiator's ears have K.O.ed them.
Man, they should have seen that coming and harnessed his electron energy. Why didn't they...oh way, I know why! They can't!!! And that's why they lost. It has nothing to do with what would happen with Magneto.
More powerful? Right because Doom with Watcher's powers absorbed Black Bolt's powers and was overloaded and thus defeated. And yet you somehow think Magneto will only be more powerful? He'll be dead. If a cosmically powered Doom couldn't contain BB's scream, Magneto's be bleeding out of the pores of his skin.
You're missing the point - everyone on this board bases all of their arguments on power levels, like Marvel and DC are like DBZ. "This person is more powerful than that person, therefore this person would win in a fight". It's nonsense. Power level is just one element in what makes a fight. Is Magneto more powerful than a Watcher? Of course not - but citing that as evidence of anything is meaningless. It's not the level of Magneto's power, it's the nature of it that makes this a mismatch in favor of Magneto.
Blackbolt releases charged energy. Magneto controls charged energy. Nothing else beyond that matters.
Originally posted by demigawd
[B]
His scream wouldn't kill Magneto - it would make him more powerful, and when Magneto is done getting more powerful, he'll just redirect the rest right at BlackBolt. And I don't think Black can take the hit as well as Magneto can....
Stop being a fanboy, it would make him dead.
Congratulations. I don't suppose Doom tried to redirect that power, hmm? Well, that must be why he lost, isn't it?
He wanted the power, that was the point. He took the scream and absorbed the power but it overloaded him.
And you think Magneto can redirect Black Bolt's scream? 😆 He's not even going to have time, it'll hit him before he can react unless you think Magneto can react faster than the speed of BB scream. It's not sound but it moves as fast or faster than sound. Magnus isn't even fast enough to react much less try to affect BB's scream.
Magneto beat Phoenix, by the way. He harnessed the Earth's power to do so and turned her powers against her. It wasn't like he did it under his own might. And why are we using Ultimates in addition to mainstream. Both are different. They may be the same character but their still different versions.
Phoenix > Watcher - prove that please. A rogue Watcher once imprisoned an entire galaxy.
Magneto > BlackBolt - 😆 Right, stop being so dillusional about this. Black Bolt is above Magneto in power.
It's not the level of Magneto's power, it's the nature of it that makes this a mismatch in favor of Magneto.
Nature my butt. BB controls electrons and manipulates matters as well.
Blackbolt releases charged energy. Magneto controls charged energy. Nothing else beyond that matters.
BB controls electrons and can release them. You don't know much about BB do you?
Originally posted by demigawd
Not if BB is dead first.
💃 Right. BB is class 50 at least. In his fight with Namor, a slug from BB sent Namor flying and crashing through a damn. His durability is above that of Magneto's, if you think a tunning fork to the head is going to kill him, you're dead wrong.
His scream would wipe out everything including Magneto.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Stop being a fanboy, it would make him dead.
Fanboyism has nothing to do with this - you could use your keyboard to type more productive things than labelling people as fanboys because they don't agree with you- starting with a sound refutation of my argument, if you can. Let me demonstrate:
He wanted the power, that was the point. He took the scream and absorbed the power but it overloaded him.
ok...poor Doom. That's neither here nor there.
And you think Magneto can redirect Black Bolt's scream? 😆 He's not even going to have time, it'll hit him before he can react unless you think Magneto can react faster than the speed of BB scream. It's not sound but it moves as fast or faster than sound. Magnus isn't even fast enough to react much less try to affect BB's scream.
1) OF COURSE Magneto can direct BB's scream - it's electron energy. it's what makes metal manipulatable in the first place. Throwing electron energy at Magneto for all intents and purposes is equivalent to throwing big chunks of metal at him. The governing principles are IDENTICAL. And unless you're able to refute that core fact, any other factor in their fight is meaningless.
2) Magneto would go into the fight with his shields up. Big deal. I bet Magneto can impale BB with his own antenna faster than BB can think to open his mouth.
Magneto beat Phoenix, by the way. He harnessed the Earth's power to do so and turned her powers against her. It wasn't like he did it under his own might.
See, it's that incorrect way of thinking again. You only seem to see things in terms of power levels. I'm going to break this board out of that habit if it's the last thing I do. The fact that he harnessed the Earth's power to do her powers against her was DONE with his own might. Marvel characters don't sit there blasting each other and the person with the higher blast level wins. It's about guile, it's about cunning, it's about resourcefulness, it's about control. Magneto beat Phoenix by using those factors. He'd do no less against Black Bolt.
And why are we using Ultimates in addition to mainstream. Both are different. They may be the same character but their still different versions.
??? I'm not talking about the Ultimate version of anything. I'm talking about MU Magneto when he took the X-men under a volcano and beat them senseless. Phoenix lashed out, Magneto responded by drawing on the EM energy of the earth, creating a bottleneck that sucked the energy right out of her.
Phoenix > Watcher - prove that please. A rogue Watcher once imprisoned an entire galaxy.
Phoenix destroyed a galaxy.
Magneto > BlackBolt - 😆 Right, stop being so dillusional about this. Black Bolt is above Magneto in power.
And with all your ample evidence, how could I say otherwise? 😆 😆
Nature my butt. BB controls electrons and manipulates matters as well.
Since when? Name some matter manipulation feats. BB's power description limits him to electron control. He can do a few things beyond that (like create gravitational fields), but the guide describes them all as being weak. Magneto has a much broader range of control that goes beyond electron control to the entire EM spectrum of energy.
BB controls electrons and can release them.
Sounds like what I said. He releases them at Magneto, Magneto does whatever the hell he wants with them, because they're his playthings.
You don't know much about BB do you?
Would you like to educate me? Do so...
Originally posted by Beyonder
Right. BB is class 50 at least.
WOW...a REAL POWERHOUSE. What was I thinking? How can Magneto hope to match a Class 50 superbeing like THAT?
In his fight with Namor, a slug from BB sent Namor flying and crashing through a damn.
He punched Namor and sent him flying? My god...that puts him at least at the level of....Wolverine. 😆 😆
His durability is above that of Magneto's, if you think a tunning fork to the head is going to kill him, you're dead wrong.
Well, with Class 50 might like that, I just don't see how Magneto could...oh...wait...that's right...Magneto can increase his strength to CLASS 100. And can exert magnetic force at an even greater level. He lifted a 30,000 TON battleship and sent it flying effortlessly. What's BB's almighty Class 50 durability got to say about THAT? Magneto impales BB with his own tuning fork the way I can hammer a nail through balsa wood...
His scream would wipe out everything including Magneto.
As you so aptly proved by mentioning he has Class 50 strength. 😆
Originally posted by demigawd
1) OF COURSE Magneto can direct BB's scream - it's electron energy. it's what makes metal manipulatable in the first place. Throwing electron energy at Magneto for all intents and purposes is equivalent to throwing big chunks of metal at him. The governing principles are IDENTICAL. And unless you're able to refute that core fact, any other factor in their fight is meaningless.
Which does nothing cause Black Bolt's attack is omnidirectional. Redirecting it does nothing to BB. Furthermore, Magnus' power is below BB's so how is he redirect a force greater that his own might? His isn't going to. BB's attack can level an entire city and you think Maggie can just react fast enough and overcome BB's scream?
2) Magneto would go into the fight with his shields up. Big deal. I bet Magneto can impale BB with his own antenna faster than BB can think to open his mouth.
Big deal, didn't Juggernaut once punched Magneto so hard that a back feed put Magneto out cold? So much for mouthing off at Juggernaut. And even Juggernaut's punches can't match BB's scream. BB's mere whisper to the ear can KO guys like Hulk and Gladiator, which Cain's best punch can only hope to stagger. Magneto's shield is going down when BB gives him the scream.
See, it's that incorrect way of thinking again. You only seem to see things in terms of power levels. I'm going to break this board out of that habit if it's the last thing I do. The fact that he harnessed the Earth's power to do her powers against her was DONE with his own might. Marvel characters don't sit there blasting each other and the person with the higher blast level wins. It's about guile, it's about cunning, it's about resourcefulness, it's about control. Magneto beat Phoenix by using those factors. He'd do no less against Black Bolt.
Yeah but this is a forum fight not a comic book fight. Both enter to fight, not to talk and give time for Maggie to pull out tricks. Forum arena fights are set up to pitt one against the other, both are just gonna talk. BB unleashes his scream and Magneto will be wrecked.
??? I'm not talking about the Ultimate version of anything. I'm talking about MU Magneto when he took the X-men under a volcano and beat them senseless. Phoenix lashed out, Magneto responded by drawing on the EM energy of the earth, creating a bottleneck that sucked the energy right out of her.
You sound as if Phoenix was going to kill him outright. Magneto did an underhand trick to save his ass. Otherwise, Phoenix could've obliterated him with ease. Furthermore, this was a weaker version of Phoenix was it not. Not all Phoenix version are the same, some more powerful and experienced than others.
Phoenix destroyed a galaxy.
When? Issues please. And which version. There's Jean and there's Racheal. There's also Phoenix and Dark Phoenix. Don't rant on like all versions of her are the same - there not.
Since when? Name some matter manipulation feats. BB's power description limits him to electron control. He can do a few things beyond that (like create gravitational fields), but the guide describes them all as being weak. Magneto has a much broader range of control that goes beyond electron control to the entire EM spectrum of energy.
That's his power. Stop using just the Marvel Bios, those aren't all accurate. Thing once wanted a robe, and BB matter manipulated it for him and a comfortable one at that. It's been awhile, but BB also contained a black hole with his powers.
Sounds like what I said. He releases them at Magneto, Magneto does whatever the hell he wants with them, because they're his playthings.
Right. If Maggie was so powerful, you'd think he himself could've ended the AOA by himself. Yet he lost half his powers taking down Apocalypse's Celestial ship, so much for being able to manipulate electrons with ease and doing whatever he wants with it. Heck, didn't he get a tasted of Apocalypse's power during AOA when he visited Xavier's tomb? If he could manipulate electrons and such, why didn't he detect and redirect Apocalypse's attack?
Would you like to educate me? Do so...
I've been trying to, yet you seem to be a fanboy of Magneto so I don't think I can.
Originally posted by demigawd
WOW...a REAL POWERHOUSE. What was I thinking? How can Magneto hope to match a Class 50 superbeing like THAT?He punched Namor and sent him flying? My god...that puts him at least at the level of....Wolverine. 😆 😆
When did Wolverine send Namor flying through the air and through a damn with one shot?
Well, with Class 50 might like that, I just don't see how Magneto could...oh...wait...that's right...Magneto can increase his strength to CLASS 100. And can exert magnetic force at an even greater level. He lifted a 30,000 TON battleship and sent it flying effortlessly. What's BB's almighty Class 50 durability got to say about THAT? Magneto impales BB with his own tuning fork the way I can hammer a nail through balsa wood...As you so aptly proved by mentioning he has Class 50 strength. 😆 [/B]
What are you laughing at? Class 50 is his base strength. He uses his powers to augment it to Class 100. Otherwise you think he could slug it out with Thing who's Class 85?
Originally posted by Beyonder
Which does nothing cause Black Bolt's attack is omnidirectional. Redirecting it does nothing to BB.
Are you saying BB is immune to his own power? That may be, and if that's the case, then re-directing won't hurt BB...but either way, it still won't hurt Magneto, and Magneto, being the multi-tasking, multi-talented person he is, can do lots of other things while blocking/redirecting/absorbing/laughing at BB's attack. Bloodwork, nervous system work, hitting him upside the head with chunks of metal, sinking BB's antenna into his brain, etc.
Furthermore, Magnus' power is below BB's so how is he redirect a force greater that his own might?
What are you basing this conclusion on? Magneto has created an EMP blast that blacked out the entire planet. He affected the environment to eliminate long range telepathy worldwide. He's stated that if he doesn't excercise total control over his power, he can threaten the world every time he uses his power. He can create blackholes and wormholes. He created an explosion 1KM in circumference with the force of a thermonuclear explosion. You can't say that Mag's power is below BB's, you have no proof of that. He's created manipulated energy types across the EM spectrum. When I see BB use his electron power to lift a 30,000 ton tanker, then we'll talk.
His isn't going to. BB's attack can level an entire city and you think Maggie can just react fast enough and overcome BB's scream?
One has nothing to do with the other. Having enough power to level a city has nothing to do with how fast the attack comes out. You can say that BB can scream faster than Magneto can react. I can say that Magneto can sink BB's antenna into his brain faster than BB can react. But, unlike you, I can also say that Magneto would go into this fight with his shields up. I can also say that Magneto (and this has officially become a recurring theme) - CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY. BB can GENERATE charged energy, but unless you cite a situation in which he's been able to *contain* his own blast, then he can't control the energy once it's been released.
Big deal, didn't Juggernaut once punched Magneto so hard that a back feed put Magneto out cold?
What?!? No! Where did you get that?
So much for mouthing off at Juggernaut. And even Juggernaut's punches can't match BB's scream. BB's mere whisper to the ear can KO guys like Hulk and Gladiator, which Cain's best punch can only hope to stagger. Magneto's shield is going down when BB gives him the scream.
It would...if not for the fact that MAGNETO CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY.
Yeah but this is a forum fight not a comic book fight. Both enter to fight, not to talk and give time for Maggie to pull out tricks. Forum arena fights are set up to pitt one against the other, both are just gonna talk. BB unleashes his scream and Magneto will be wrecked.
I'd agree if not for the fact that MAGNETO CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY.
You sound as if Phoenix was going to kill him outright. Magneto did an underhand trick to save his ass. Otherwise, Phoenix could've obliterated him with ease. Furthermore, this was a weaker version of Phoenix was it not. Not all Phoenix version are the same, some more powerful and experienced than others.
It's the same Phoenix entity. More experienced after time, yes, but he still beat her down. And it wasn't an underhanded trick. What's so underhanded about drawing on the forces of the planet and using its energy to create a bottleneck to suck the life out of her? That's his power....what's what he does.
More reply coming later. Gotta go.
Originally posted by Beyonder
BB's mere whisper to the ear can KO guys like Hulk and Gladiator, which Cain's best punch can only hope to stagger.
You mean the same scream that Apocalypse laughed off?
Yeah but this is a forum fight not a comic book fight. Both enter to fight, not to talk and give time for Maggie to pull out tricks. Forum arena fights are set up to pitt one against the other, both are just gonna talk.
I'm not sure what this has to do with my statement that a character's skill and use of power if often more important than simply measuring power levels. They don't have to sit there and have tea and crumpets for Magneto to be resourceful enough to beat BlackBolt. In fact, he doesn't have to be particularly resourceful at all to beat BlackBolt because (say it with me now)
MAGNETO CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY.
When? Issues please. And which version. There's Jean and there's Racheal. There's also Phoenix and Dark Phoenix. Don't rant on like all versions of her are the same - there not.
Dark Phoenix during the Dark Phoenix saga. That would be Jean. And Dark Phoenix and Phoenix are the same - one is just evil while the other is not. They have the same power levels. Could Phoenix have destroyed Magneto the way she destroyed a galaxy? Sure...but a fat lot of good that would have done. That's why I say it's more skill and cunning and just about overpowering your opponent. Magneto is so formidable not because he has star-smashing power, but because he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power. BB's the LA Lakers. Magneto's the Detroit Pistons. Work ethic beats flash and star power any day.
That's his power. Stop using just the Marvel Bios, those aren't all accurate. Thing once wanted a robe, and BB matter manipulated it for him and a comfortable one at that. It's been awhile, but BB also contained a black hole with his powers.
*shrug* That puts Blackbolt on the same level as Havok, who contained a black hole with HIS powers. Did BB do it with his scream, or did he do it some other way? If it's with his scream, that still doesn't prove anything. Besides, Magneto can create black holes. It seems to me that Magneto exercises a far greater breadth of control, given the diversity of feats I named compared to BB screaming into a Black hole. I will say that the robe thing is impressive. Has he done any matter manipulation in combat? Was there an explanation as to how he did it? There's no mention of any such ability anywhere else on any bios that I'm looking up now.
Right. If Maggie was so powerful, you'd think he himself could've ended the AOA by himself. Yet he lost half his powers taking down Apocalypse's Celestial ship, so much for being able to manipulate electrons with ease and doing whatever he wants with it.
He didn't lose half his powers taking down Poccy's ship. He lost half his powers giving it to Rogue to save her life. And I believe that was *before* the ship debacle. Additionally, that was a Magneto who was never given his two power ups (Erik the Red and Fatal Attractions). So you're talking about a Magneto who is about 1/5 the power of the MU Magneto. So a Magneto THAT WEAK was able to take down Poccy's celestial ship. That's not a liability, that's a feat.
Heck, didn't he get a tasted of Apocalypse's power during AOA when he visited Xavier's tomb? If he could manipulate electrons and such, why didn't he detect and redirect Apocalypse's attack?
1/5 the Magneto who, I might add, ended up ripping up Apocalypse in two two issues later. The same Apocalypse who, if I may be so bold, laughed off BB's scream.
Hmmm.
I've been trying to, yet you seem to be a fanboy of Magneto so I don't think I can.
🙄
I'd like to know more about these matter manipulation powers of his.
When did Wolverine send Namor flying through the air and through a damn with one shot?
He didn't in one shot, but he owned him up better than Blackbolt did!
What are you laughing at? Class 50 is his base strength. He uses his powers to augment it to Class 100. Otherwise you think he could slug it out with Thing who's Class 85?
Class 1 is his base strength. And he uses his powers to augment it to Class 50. According to his bios. You can say his bios are wrong, and I may believe you, but you'll have to tell me how you calculated that he's Class 50 base and Class 100 augmented, aside from just the fact that he slugged it out with Thing. Wolverine slugs it out with Thing too...