Magneto has the better control over the electromagnetic spectrum which is evident, he has shown he can manipulate matter etc. at the subatomic level, he as well has incredible energy out put. He has incredible control over all types of energy, such as heat, light, gravity etc.
Magneto winning this fight, is just as possible as Black Bolt winning it.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Magneto has the better control over the electromagnetic spectrum which is evident, he has shown he can manipulate matter etc. at the subatomic level, he as well has incredible energy out put. He has incredible control over all types of energy, such as heat, light, gravity etc.Magneto winning this fight, is just as possible as Black Bolt winning it.
YEs he does have better control over the EM spectrum. But BB's own ability is no slouch in that regard. Mags energy ouput certainly isnt as large as BB's. I didnt know mags could manipulate matter. What transmutation and other similar matter manip feats does he have? Further his control over energy is part of his control over the EM spectrum. Its not a seperate ability.
Point is that magneto has one advantage in this fight which is his EM spectrum control. However Blackbolt is good enough in that area to make a fight of it WITHOUT taking into account his numerous other advantages. When u add in his speed,strength,durability,matter manip, and then offensive output advantage, he comes out on top.
1. Magneto isn't coping with BB energy output at his max. So, once Mags goes defensive, he loses.
2. Magneto can win by frying BB's cerebral system/paralysing him before BB begins to talk/amp himself/anything. Question is, how simple is that - if BB is charged with energy, Mags won't be able to interrupt the workings of his systems.
So, the King 8/10
Originally posted by Naija boy
YEs he does have better control over the EM spectrum. But BB's own ability is no slouch in that regard. Mags energy ouput certainly isnt as large as BB's. I didnt know mags could manipulate matter. What transmutation and other similar matter manip feats does he have? Further his control over energy is part of his control over the EM spectrum. Its not a seperate ability. .
Black Bolt's control is impressive but Magneto is still evidently superior.
Magneto's main power stems from his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum, so of course his energy manipulation just as his other powers stems from it. Doesn't change the fact, that it allows him to manipulate multiple forms of energy.
His manipulated matter on the subatomic scale before on different occasions.
No one knows Magneto's maximum power out put. He like Black Bolt has never used all his power in one massive out burst. Black Bolt controls electrons etc. and Magneto controls one of the fundamental forces of the Universe.
We cannot guess either maximum power output besides that it would be incredibly powerful.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Point is that magneto has one advantage in this fight which is his EM spectrum control. However Blackbolt is good enough in that area to make a fight of it WITHOUT taking into account his numerous other advantages. When u add in his speed,strength,durability,matter manip, and then offensive output advantage, he comes out on top.
The point is, Black Bolt cannot match Magneto's control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum and as Magneto controls the Electromagnetic Spectrum he also has the ability to manipulate electrons to an unspecified limit. He could directly interfere with Black Bolt's ability to use his powers.
So I could just as easily say, Magneto is able to fight Black Bolt with his simple control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum.
Black Bolt also has one weakness that Magneto can take advantage off, and that is the fork on his head.
Also Magneto can augment his strength, durability, speed etc. to the point where he is a high Class 100 and can snatch speedsters such as North Star out of the air.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Black Bolt's control is impressive but Magneto is still evidently superior.Magneto's main power stems from his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum, so of course his energy manipulation just as his other powers stems from it. Doesn't change the fact, that it allows him to manipulate multiple forms of energy.
His manipulated matter on the subatomic scale before on different occasions.
Mags control over the EM spectrum is greater than blackbolts yes. But the fact that BB can give mags a good fight in that regard speaks volumes considering that he has many other options to choose from.
Could u post a scan or give a specific instance of mags "matter manipulation"? Because the only instances i recalling are technically "energy manipulation" since it had to do with his control over the EM spectrum. What im really referring to are feats in the vein of transmutation.
No one knows Magneto's maximum power out put. He like Black Bolt has never used all his power in one massive out burst. Black Bolt controls electrons etc. and Magneto controls one of the fundamental forces of the Universe. We cannot guess either maximum power output besides that it would be incredibly powerful.
Id rather not play the game of guesstimation. Im basing it only on feats and in that regard BB has a higher energy output than Mags
The point is, Black Bolt cannot match Magneto's control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum and as Magneto controls the Electromagnetic Spectrum he also has the ability to manipulate electrons to an unspecified limit. He could directly interfere with Black Bolt's ability to use his powers. So I could just as easily say, Magneto is able to fight Black Bolt with his simple control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum. Black Bolt also has one weakness that Magneto can take advantage off, and that is the fork on his head. Also Magneto can augment his strength, durability, speed etc. to the point where he is a high Class 100 and can snatch speedsters such as North Star out of the air.
Not really. Magneto having control over the EM spectrum doesnt automatically mean he will be able to overide BBs electron control and subsequently interfere with his powers. In fact there is nothing that supports that at all. True Magneto can amp his strength and speed but still not to put him at a level of Blackbolt who can one shot the likes of Namor and Ikaris. Plus if magneto doesnt have his shields up at the start of the fight(which he shouldnt have per forum rules), a whisper from BB would end it quick
Originally posted by Naija boy
Mags control over the EM spectrum is greater than blackbolts yes. But the fact that BB can give mags a good fight in that regard speaks volumes considering that he has many other options to choose from.
Black Bolt has shown control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum to the point where he can challenge Magneto, when exactly?
Magneto's control is beyond Black Bolt in terms of control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Could u post a scan or give a specific instance of mags "matter manipulation"? Because the only instances i recalling are technically "energy manipulation" since it had to do with his control over the EM spectrum. What im really referring to are feats in the vein of transmutation.
What do you mean in the vein of transmutation?
You mean something akin to turning say Gold to Water etc.?
I don't recall Magneto doing something of that sort. He has manipulated matter at a subatomic scale before, like I said. I didn't say anything of transmutation.
Of course it stems from his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum. That's his main power set.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Id rather not play the game of guesstimation. Im basing it only on feats and in that regard BB has a higher energy output than Mags
Going by feats, we haven't see the up most of either, and going by feats, who has the higher energy out put is highly debatable.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Not really. Magneto having control over the EM spectrum doesnt automatically mean he will be able to overide BBs electron control and subsequently interfere with his powers. In fact there is nothing that supports that at all. True Magneto can amp his strength and speed but still not to put him at a level of Blackbolt who can one shot the likes of Namor and Ikaris. Plus if magneto doesnt have his shields up at the start of the fight(which he shouldnt have per forum rules), a whisper from BB would end it quick
He manipulates the Electromagnetic Spectrum, and Black Bolt's power stems from Electrons. Based on this, Magneto can interfere with Black Bolt's power set as his main power derives from manipulating Electrons such as adjacent Electrons etc.
He never one shot Ikaris, and Namor came back fine as I recall.
Magneto can amp up his strength, durability etc. to vast levels.
While weakened he took a blow from Colossus to the face unharmed, while weakened has gone toe to toe with Colossus. His shrugged of Hercules who had him in a grip like a rag doll etc.
Magneto can increase his strength to vast levels. Black Bolt's strength isn't going to be what wins this for him.
Magneto with a thought can put up his shields and this is Magneto's main form of defense. This will be the first thing he would do if he is smart, which Magneto is as he is a genius, both tactically and in terms of intelligence. Magneto Force Field will be up before Black Bolt says a word.
Originally posted by Timslar
I think you necromancers should probably read this thread from its start. Demigawd makes a very convincing point, and backs it up well. I think all the arguments that could be made already have been.
I'm to lazy but you're probably right. It's happened to me a lot of times when people bring up arguments that I have disputed in the earlier pages of a thread. I know how annoying it is.
I'll start now.
No one knows Magneto's maximum power out put. He like Black Bolt has never used all his power in one massive out burst.
Magneto burned himself out during Magneto War. That means, he can output enough energy to reverse Earth's magnetic poles at best. And after long charge.
So I could just as easily say, Magneto is able to fight Black Bolt with his simple control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum.Black Bolt also has one weakness that Magneto can take advantage off, and that is the fork on his head.
Also Magneto can augment his strength, durability, speed etc. to the point where he is a high Class 100 and can snatch speedsters such as North Star out of the air.
He manipulates the Electromagnetic Spectrum, and Black Bolt's power stems from Electrons. Based on this, Magneto can interfere with Black Bolt's power set as his main power derives from manipulating Electrons such as adjacent Electrons etc.
Control is limited by powers invloved. The more the power is, the less control one can exert on her.
And force field won't hold the fabric-of-reality-tearing scream for long. Therein lies the problem.
Magneto has control over the electromagnetic spectrum? Over photons?? All because he controls magnetism???
I understand the physics, but isn't this defeating the purpose of him being "Magneto"? Now he can hoist/flip all kinds of objects (not just metal) and do limited matter manip?
Part of the fun of the character was that he could be handled by nonmetal contrivances, eg, plastic jail cell.
Ah well...
Black Bolt wins. Say they're equals with matter/energy manipulation. I would think, on the physical/h2h level, BB would dominate.
Originally posted by Survivor19
Not true at all.
I mean that.Magneto burned himself out during Magneto War. That means, he can output enough energy to reverse Earth's magnetic poles at best. And after long charge.
How long ago was that?
I said energy output. In a way such as a destructive blast. Black Bolt has also been exhausted in the past, by applying his power into a specific portion such as his Master Blow.
We are talking about energy output. Pure energy output.
Originally posted by Survivor19
BB can easily sucker punch Mags with concentrated shot from his antennae. So what?
What?
First of all that isn't happening with his Force Field and second of all I'm talking about his antenna as a weakness. I could easily just as say Magneto sucker punches Black Bolt with a Magnetic pulse, or you could say Black Bolt sucker punches Magneto with a whisper etc. It's completely irrelevant.
Originally posted by Survivor19
IMHO, larely irrelevant. Once it goes slugfest, mags loses. He isn't tanking the Master Blow.
Who said anything about a slug fest?
With his defenses he can tank a Master Blow obviously and that's a fatal mistake for Black Bolt. He uses up a large portion of his power that way.
Also, I don't believe it will come down to a slug fest. Either way, Black Bolt's strength isn't what's going to win this for him and Magneto is incredible durable and strong, and can also amp himself vastly.
Originally posted by Survivor19
It's like you put a fan against a hurricane, and claim that it can interfere with the tornado.
Sure it can. Still the fan gets, well, broken.
That's a faulty comparison.
Magneto with his control over the Electromagnetic spectrum, can affect electrons to a vast degree. He can directly interfere with Black Bolt's power set.
Originally posted by Survivor19
Control is limited by powers invloved. The more the power is, the less control one can exert on her.
That's not the situation all the time. One could be superior in power and in control.
Whose her? We are talking about Magneto and Black Bolt here.
Originally posted by Survivor19
And force field won't hold the fabric-of-reality-tearing scream for long. Therein lies the problem.
So, Black Bolt has Reed's technology here does he?
I don't recall that being in his standard arsenal.
Context, is IMPORTANT.
Magneto on the other hand, can open a rip in space on his own. I doubt Black Bolt can survive a worm hole in his head.
How long ago was that?
We are talking about energy output. Pure energy output.
Magneto sucker punches Black Bolt with a Magnetic pulse, or you could say Black Bolt sucker punches Magneto with a whisper etc. It's completely irrelevant.
Magneto with his control over the Electromagnetic spectrum, can affect electrons to a vast degree. He can directly interfere with Black Bolt's power set.
One could be superior in power and in control.
So, Black Bolt has Reed's technology here does he?I don't recall that being in his standard arsenal.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Black Bolt has shown control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum to the point where he can challenge Magneto, when exactly?Magneto's control is beyond Black Bolt in terms of control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum.
Blackbolt is no slouch in EM control. He has shown to be able to absorb energy,neutralize energy, manipulate polarities, make constructs and forcefields,track and trace energy types etc.
What do you mean in the vein of transmutation? You mean something akin to turning say Gold to Water etc.? I don't recall Magneto doing something of that sort. He has manipulated matter at a subatomic scale before, like I said. I didn't say anything of transmutation. Of course it stems from his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum. That's his main power set.
Yeah thats what i meant as i was trying to draw a comparison to BB who does have that ability.
Going by feats, we haven't see the up most of either, and going by feats, who has the higher energy out put is highly debatable.
There is nothing debatable by feats which is what matters not some speculative upper limit. BB's, energy blasts have sent the sphinx hurtling light years away,has shown to have the output to power Attilan for the next ten millenia, used his energy to power a bomb that was going to destroy the negative barrirer etc. And this is all without using his voice.
He manipulates the Electromagnetic Spectrum, and Black Bolt's power stems from Electrons. Based on this, Magneto can interfere with Black Bolt's power set as his main power derives from manipulating Electrons such as adjacent Electrons etc. He never one shot Ikaris, and Namor came back fine as I recall. Magneto can amp up his strength, durability etc. to vast levels. While weakened he took a blow from Colossus to the face unharmed, while weakened has gone toe to toe with Colossus. His shrugged of Hercules who had him in a grip like a rag doll etc. Magneto can increase his strength to vast levels. Black Bolt's strength isn't going to be what wins this for him. Magneto with a thought can put up his shields and this is Magneto's main form of defense. This will be the first thing he would do if he is smart, which Magneto is as he is a genius, both tactically and in terms of intelligence. Magneto Force Field will be up before Black Bolt says a word.
True Mags manipulates the EM spectrum at a wide range than BB, however Blackbolts specializes at electron manipulation. So in order for Mags to be able to somehow block off or interfere with BBs powers, he would have to be able to manipulate electrons in particular at a superior level o BB. That is not the case
I meant to use the Ikaris match as an example of his speed. As for the namor incident namor didnt come back fine at all. He was oneshotted into a hydro electric dam and even with that still didnt return for the rest of the fight. And that was actually a weakened blackbolt. The point isnt that blackbolt strength is going to win it for him. Its that his strength is another of the many advantages he has in this match and its the totality of those advantages that will win it for him. Magnetos forcefield while powerful will still be penetrated and when this happens he is done.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Purely using his energy output? Or thru some sort of manipulation?
Err, I dunno if BB can, but Magnus also has matter manipulation abilities.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusWell, Black Bolt has enough control of electrons to turn a boulder into anti-matter with ease. He can cause every single atom in someone's body to collide with the others at the same time (apparently, he threatened Madrox with this). He messed with Adam Warlock's karmic blasts, with Nova's gravimetric force. He can cause water in the air to solidify, or reduce the breathing air in the surrounding atmosphere.
Black Bolt has shown control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum to the point where he can challenge Magneto, when exactly?
Mags is good, but Black Bolt's no slouch. It would be hard to mess with his control over his powers.
Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm not entirely clear what you're asking. Magnus has used his control over the electromagnetic force to rend spacetime, creating wormholes with which to transport himself from point A to point B. Happens just prior to House of M starting up, in an Excalibur issue. Might have done it more times than that, as well.Err, I dunno if BB can, but Magnus also has matter manipulation abilities.
As i suspected. What i was referring to was magnetos energy output being able to rend spacetime. Similar to the way surfer did. What uve described now is magneto creating a wormhole through manipulation of electromagnetic forces. Impressive but doesnt tell us anything about his offensive energy output. ( In the same vein Blackbolt has infact also used his powers to seal multiple blackholes).
Yes BB does have matter manip abilities and can even produce antimatter.
Originally posted by Survivor19
Well, i tried to find the peak magneto. Yep, it was THAT long ago.
We aren't useing here current featless Magneto, are we?
Like I said, we are talking about, energy output.
Hold on. You said Magneto Wars. I haven't read it in a while, but are you using Joseph?
Originally posted by Survivor19
When Magneto will power up freakingly fast interstellar travelling city, which uses armada-destroying blasts, and army of robots without any sign offatigue, then we are talking about comparable energy output.
Don't waste my time by stating feats that I already know. I have read all of Black Bolt's appearances and know practically all there is to know about him.
I know what he is capable off, but I also know what Magnus has been capable off. He has manipulated the entire world's EM sphere, and other incredible feats.
What you are listing is a result of Black Bolt's voice. His voice is the cause of Electron interaction that is connected to the speech part of his brain.
It's not pure energy output. What Black Bolt does, is cause the interaction, which results in the affect that his voice produces. I do believe Black Bolt is more powerful than Magneto in terms of raw destructive capabilities but that only takes him so far. Hell, his greatest asset his voice, is caused by ambient Electron interaction, and guess what Magneto has shown to control or stop to a vast extent?
He can effectively negate the process that causes Black Bolt's destructive voice.
Originally posted by Survivor19
Right you are. Let's not talk about sucker punches.
You're the one who brought it up, not me.
Originally posted by Survivor19
Still, he can't handle the power output, nor affect it (like absorb or reflect) in any way. Freaking Watcher couldn't handle it and Mags is no Watcher.
Doom with the power of the watcher, tried to absorb the direct destructive power of Black Bolt's voice.
One doesn't have to be more powerful, to stop or effectively negate it. Magneto can control Electron interactions etc. and control Electrons on a vast scale. Black Bolt's voice is a direct cause of ambient Electron interactions. His power is the spark that's starts the destructive out burst known as his Quasi Sonic scream.
One doesn't have to be more powerful to win a fight. Finesse has beaten raw power on multiple occasions.
Originally posted by Survivor19
Black Bolt is inferior in control, but he completely dwarves Magneto with level of his power. That's what i mean.
You think Black Bolt's power is that much greater than Magneto's level of power?
Black Bolt can cause more destruction than Magneto, but that doesn't mean his level of power dwarves Magneto's. I think Black Bolt might be more powerful, and he is obviously more powerful in terms of destruction, but that's it. He doesn't not completely out class Magneto in terms of power. That's silly.
Originally posted by Survivor19
It was BB's power that ripped the space.
Reed's tech was needed to ensure the Earth doesn't die from that.
Also, how many times has Magneto created an wormhole? Like, once? Around himself only?
I doubt it can be used as battle technicue here, except for self-bfr.
Reed's technology augmented Black Bolt's power, and then used the energy to create a rift in space. Context.
He has shown the ability to control and create worm holes etc. on different occasions. Magneto has shown the ability to tear holes in Space/Time on his own and have control over the affected area. Him creating one where Black Bolt is, doesn't seem like it's out of his power etc.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Blackbolt is no slouch in EM control. He has shown to be able to absorb energy,neutralize energy, manipulate polarities, make constructs and forcefields,track and trace energy types etc.
Everything Magneto has done with ease for a while now. I'm not saying he is a slouch. Far from it. His extremely impressive as you know. Black Bolt is extremely impressive in that category, but not on the level of Magneto.
I'm not even arguing that Magneto wins this fight, I'm saying that who wins this is extremely debatable. I personally see either winning and I believe I said I can see Black Bolt taking the majority, but to think Magneto doesn't stand a chance or can't win a few fights is just plain wrong in my opinion. A reasonable argument can be made for why Magneto can win.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Yeah thats what i meant as i was trying to draw a comparison to BB who does have that ability.
I do not believe he has ever caused direct transmutation, but Magneto has shown matter manipulation to the subatomic scale on different occasions in the past. He has matter manipulation abilities but I don't believe he has ever done something akin to turning dirt to gold, or bread to fish etc. Not that I recall at least.
Originally posted by Naija boy
There is nothing debatable by feats which is what matters not some speculative upper limit. BB's, energy blasts have sent the sphinx hurtling light years away,has shown to have the output to power Attilan for the next ten millenia, used his energy to power a bomb that was going to destroy the negative barrirer etc. And this is all without using his voice.
Actually, it is debatable. I know all of this, but Magneto has incredibly impressive feats of his own that make this debatable.
Manipulation of ambient electrons etc. does not mean more energy output. Magneto has also shown incredible feats, going by that such as beating the Phoenix etc.
Originally posted by Naija boy
True Mags manipulates the EM spectrum at a wide range than BB, however Blackbolts specializes at electron manipulation. So in order for Mags to be able to somehow block off or interfere with BBs powers, he would have to be able to manipulate electrons in particular at a superior level o BB. That is not the case
That's the thing though, Magneto has shown the ability to manipulate Electrons such as Electron interactions etc. to a vast degree.
Magneto manipulates charged energy all the time as it's an aspect of the EM which he has complete control over. Greater control than almost anyone. That's what he does with his Force Field. It removes Electrons from objects to create a charge, then mimics the charge to repel the object. He not only has Electron control to such a direct degree, he also has a more broader range of control than Black Bolt. He can simply stop the affect that causes Black Bolt's destructive voice from occurring, which is the direct result of ambient Electron/Particle interaction. He would have more control over Black Bolt's destructive voice than Black Bolt does. Black Bolt has control only to a limited extent. This is evident by the fact that he contain his own power, which is created through Electron/Particle interaction.
True Black Bolt has impressive control, and directly, ambient Electron control, I don't think Magneto trumps him.
The Electron Energy that Black Bolt creates it simply another aspect of charged Electromagnetic energy which Magneto has complete control over. Greater control than Black Bolt.
Originally posted by Naija boy
I meant to use the Ikaris match as an example of his speed. As for the namor incident namor didnt come back fine at all. He was oneshotted into a hydro electric dam and even with that still didnt return for the rest of the fight. And that was actually a weakened blackbolt. The point isnt that blackbolt strength is going to win it for him. Its that his strength is another of the many advantages he has in this match and its the totality of those advantages that will win it for him. Magnetos forcefield while powerful will still be penetrated and when this happens he is done.
When Namor came back, he wasn't harmed as I recall. I mean even the Thing was able to rock him there. If they double teamed him in such a state, it would have been unfair. Namor would give Black Bolt a decent run for his money hand to hand wise on a good day.
Black Bolt's physical strength isn't winning this for him. Magneto has taken blows from Namor, Colossus etc. without being hurt and that was while weakened. He has shrugged of Hercules, like a rag doll etc. Like Black Bolt, Magneto can amp himself to vast levels. Magneto wouldn't resort to physical violence either way.
Do you know what the cause of Magneto's Force Field is?
The power that Black Bolt generates is not breaching it. Electron/Particle interaction is something that Magneto has control over. More so than than Black Bolt.