Black Bolt Vs. Magneto

Originally posted by demigawd
You mean the same scream that Apocalypse laughed off?

I'm not sure what this has to do with my statement that a character's skill and use of power if often more important than simply measuring power levels. They don't have to sit there and have tea and crumpets for Magneto to be resourceful enough to beat BlackBolt. In fact, he doesn't have to be particularly resourceful at all to beat BlackBolt because (say it with me now)

MAGNETO CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY.

Dark Phoenix during the Dark Phoenix saga. That would be Jean. And Dark Phoenix and Phoenix are the same - one is just evil while the other is not. They have the same power levels. Could Phoenix have destroyed Magneto the way she destroyed a galaxy? Sure...but a fat lot of good that would have done. That's why I say it's more skill and cunning and just about overpowering your opponent. Magneto is so formidable not because he has star-smashing power, but because he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power. BB's the LA Lakers. Magneto's the Detroit Pistons. Work ethic beats flash and star power any day.

*shrug* That puts Blackbolt on the same level as Havok, who contained a black hole with HIS powers. Did BB do it with his scream, or did he do it some other way? If it's with his scream, that still doesn't prove anything. Besides, Magneto can create black holes. It seems to me that Magneto exercises a far greater breadth of control, given the diversity of feats I named compared to BB screaming into a Black hole. I will say that the robe thing is impressive. Has he done any matter manipulation in combat? Was there an explanation as to how he did it? There's no mention of any such ability anywhere else on any bios that I'm looking up now.

He didn't lose half his powers taking down Poccy's ship. He lost half his powers giving it to Rogue to save her life. And I believe that was *before* the ship debacle. Additionally, that was a Magneto who was never given his two power ups (Erik the Red and Fatal Attractions). So you're talking about a Magneto who is about 1/5 the power of the MU Magneto. So a Magneto THAT WEAK was able to take down Poccy's celestial ship. That's not a liability, that's a feat.

1/5 the Magneto who, I might add, ended up ripping up Apocalypse in two two issues later. The same Apocalypse who, if I may be so bold, laughed off BB's scream.

Hmmm.

🙄

I'd like to know more about these matter manipulation powers of his.

He didn't in one shot, but he owned him up better than Blackbolt did!

Class 1 is his base strength. And he uses his powers to augment it to Class 50. According to his bios. You can say his bios are wrong, and I may believe you, but you'll have to tell me how you calculated that he's Class 50 base and Class 100 augmented, aside from just the fact that he slugged it out with Thing. Wolverine slugs it out with Thing too...

In conclusion:

Magneto > Phoenix > Apocalypse > Black Bolt > Watcher Doom

🙄

Demi knows his shit, no doubt about that.

Just puzzles me that Magneto can easily beat Hulk, Thanos, Blackbolt and Gladiator yet Ice-Man is a match for him.

-AC

Nah, it's more like:

Phoenix > Watcher Doom > Magneto > Apocalypse > Black Bolt.

And I was kidding in the vs. Thanos thread. It was because, I think, YOU who started that thread, so I knew it was to see how I'd answer.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Demi knows his shit, no doubt about that.

Just puzzles me that Magneto can easily beat Hulk, Thanos, Blackbolt and Gladiator yet Ice-Man is a match for him.

-AC

haha, it's because of what I've been trying to say from the beginning (and please disregard that Thanos comment, I was kidding):

It's less about the level of power and more about the nature of power. Hulk, Black Bolt, Graviton, ionic characters like Nefaria, and the like have very specific weaknesses to the things Magneto can do. It doesn't mean Magneto is more powerful than they are - in fact, he often isn't. It means that Magneto is able to use his power to exploit their weaknesses.

For example - is Hulk more powerful than Havok? ABSOLUTELY! But can Hulk BEAT Havok in a fight? No! Because when they fought, Havok was able to absorb Hulk's gamma energy and turn him back into Banner. It's the nature of the matchup that you have to consider, not the level of power. That's something I always consider in these fights. Frankly, all of you would do well to do the same. It might make some of these responses on the board more interesting.

Originally posted by demigawd
Nah, it's more like:

Phoenix > Watcher Doom > Magneto > Apocalypse > Black Bolt.

And I was kidding in the vs. Thanos thread. It was because, I think, YOU who started that thread, so I knew it was to see how I'd answer.

You also stated in the Gladiator Vs. Magneto thread that Magneto can screw with Thanos' blood cause Thanos can bleed. I don't see why he can't open up a blackhole and throw Thanos into it like you've so claimed Magnus can do to Gladiator.

So far, in Gladiator Vs. Magneto - one of Erik's option was openning up a blackhole or wormhole and throwing Kallark into it according to you.

In Thanos Vs. Magneto - your first post claimed the same thing about blackholes as an option. Your second post after that was the sarcasm one. The first one wasn't.

Now in Black Bolt Vs. Magneto - You again claimed Magneto can open black holes. Then you also added that Magneto has "star smashing powers".

IMO, you really believe Magneto is the embodiment of energy or something.

Maybe I completely lost my mind, but when exactly did I say that Magneto has "star smashing powers"? If you could post that quote, it would help me figure out if I need therapy...

As for the blackhole option, it's still fairly new, since he only recently showed the ability to create wormholes. I'm just saying...it's now part of his powers. I haven't heavily debated that point since it's only recently been explored, and I won't heavily debate it now.

And yes, he can screw with Thano's blood, and I'm sure it'll cause Thanos a great deal of pain. But because of the NATURE of Thanos' power, he could override and reverse what Magneto is doing to him. Because of the NATURE of BB or Hulk's or Gladiator's powers, they can't.

It's all about the nature of the power, not the level. That's what I've been saying from the beginning.

And if you hate where I put Magneto in the hierarchy now, wait until he begins harnessing reality-manipulating powers next issue of Excalibur...

Originally posted by demigawd
Dark Phoenix during the Dark Phoenix saga. That would be Jean. And Dark Phoenix and Phoenix are the same - one is just evil while the other is not. They have the same power levels. Could Phoenix have destroyed Magneto the way she destroyed a galaxy? Sure...but a fat lot of good that would have done. That's why I say it's more skill and cunning and just about overpowering your opponent. Magneto is so formidable not because he has star-smashing power, but because he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power. BB's the LA Lakers. Magneto's the Detroit Pistons. Work ethic beats flash and star power any day.

tsk tsk tsk. If you read more closely, you'd see that I actually wrote:

Magneto is so formidable not because he has star-smashing power, but because he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power.

Look up, check it again. See?

Originally posted by demigawd
tsk tsk tsk. If you read more closely, you'd see that I actually wrote:

Look up, check it again. See?

What are you talking about? It says he's not so formidible because he has star smashing powers but because he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power.

I interpreted as although he has star smashing powers, that's not what makes him formidible - it's the fact that he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power.

I guess you meant it a different way. Then again you also claim he can create blackholes. It's not hard for me interpret what you wrote the way I did; since if he can create blackholes, why can he not destroy a star? Cause for a blackhole to exist, does a star not have to die before a blackhole or white dwarf to be created?

Otherwise, how does Magneto create a blackhole?

I think what Demi is saying is, although he has black hole creation it isn't what makes him formidable.

The fact that he understands every part of his power and how to use it, is.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I think what Demi is saying is, although he has black hole creation it isn't what makes him formidable.

The fact that he understands every part of his power and how to use it, is.

-AC

Yup. And how would he create blackholes without destroying a star?

I might have misinterpreted his earlier statement; however, it still stands that if he could create black holes, why can't he destroy a star? A star has to die for a black hole to be created.

Originally posted by Beyonder
What are you talking about? It says he's [b]not so formidible because he has star smashing powers but because he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power.

wtf. You just changed my quote! I didn't say, "he's not so formidable because he has star smashing powers, but because....". I said, "he's formidable not because he has star smashing powers, but because....". Given that I then proceeded to talk at length about how I put emphasis on cunning and control and nature over level of power, then lambasted everyone who just compares power levels, I don't see how you could have interpreted that the way you did. You would had to have ignored the entire context of my message.

I interpreted as although he has star smashing powers, that's not what makes him formidible - it's the fact that he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power. I guess you meant it a different way.

I did. But I'm glad that we're clear now.

Then again you also claim he can create blackholes. It's not hard for me interpret what you wrote the way I did; since if he can create blackholes, why can he not destroy a star? Cause for a blackhole to exist, does a star not have to die before a blackhole or white dwarf to be created?

You're confusing cause and effect.

Cause: Star dies
Effect: Black hole.

That's not the same as:

Cause: Black hole
Effect: Star dies.

A star dying leaves a black hole in its wake. That doesn't mean that the ability create a black hole is the ability to destroy stars. A black hole is created by warping either gravitic or magnetic fields so much that the mass generated by it collapses on itself, exponentially increasing in density, and causing a gravity pull so great that the escape velocity is faster than light. The most common cause of a black hole is the collapse of a star, but that's just a cause. It's not the exclusive reason why a black hole would form.*

*Note: In real world science, it's been the only observed reason why a black hole formed, but that's just because there's no other natural reason for it to occur. Scientists are currently experimenting with artificially generating one (without destroying the solar system).

wow my mind is blowing with all this scientific black hole bullshit.

A black hole sucks entire star system so if he can (which i dobt) they all die.

Nothing to doubt. Magneto created a wormhole in Excalibur #8. A wormhole, for the uninitiated, is a black hole with an exit (commonly referred to as a "white hole"😉.

Another thing you have to consider is, a black hole can only suck in things that reach its event horizon. So just creating a black hole won't suck in a star system - it would have to have a large enough event horizon to suck things in. Think of it as inescapable quick sand. As long as you don't step in it, you're safe.

i havnt read this thread, but i'm pretty sure blackbolt would win 😉 he has a powerful scream, and it was powerful enough to overload doom, so i'm pretty sure that even if magneto could recharge himself with it (which i doubt, because its similar to a nuclear explosion), it would overload him also....

Magneto could probably redirect the scream or shield himself from it.

Is that tuning fork on Blackbolt's head made of metal?

i dunno what its made off... but i doubt he could completely shield himself from the full force of thes cream... without severily weakening himself... to the point of not being able to do anything offensive.

You should read the thread. Most of the points you're both making have been addressed already.

addressed by opinion 😉 feel free to try to "prove" them wrong... i'm sure you addressed them with your opinion...