Black Bolt Vs. Magneto

Started by Khellendros7 pages

Originally posted by demigawd
Has he done any matter manipulation in combat? Was there an explanation as to how he did it?

🙄

I'd like to know more about these matter manipulation powers of his.

From what I can gather, It's a much more controlled use of the same "transformative energy" that powers his quasi-sonic scream and his Master Blow. So, uhh, there ya go.

I have a question, though. How would Magneto know Black Bolt uses a particle that interacts with electrons to produce this shockwave? I mean, knowing he could ignore lightning (electricity) and Ice Man's attacks (superconductawhatnow?) is fairly simple science these days. How would he know that Black Bolt is using an unidentifiable particle that interacts with electrons to produce a shockwave of pure destructive force?

Also, I know Magneto can manipulate electrons, but at some point, BB's attack stops relying on electrons and just becomes a shockwave. How could Magneto stop that, he can't just move all the electrons in the area away from Black Bolt can he?

You call his scream "charged energy". Well, is it positively charged? Negatively? Does changing it from positive to negative effect the fact that it destroys anything it comes into contact with? I don't even think calling it charged energy means what you think it does. I think, once the initial electron/particle reaction happens, the resulting energy is out of Magneto's hands, but that's just me. I'm just looking for answers to my questions, I'm still unsure about who could beat who.

"The speech center of Black Bolt’s brain contains an organic mechanism able to generate an as yet unknown type of particle which interacts with ambient electrons to create certain phenomena determined by mental control.".

So we have an "unknown type of particle which interacts with ambient electrons." The writers don't have the slightest clue how BB's powers work, but if you insist on getting all scientifically : it's not mere electrons, but an interaction of unknown particles and electrons.

That's very important, or do you think Magneto can absorb the electrons and neutralize the unknown particles in half a second ? Can you predict what will happen when the unknown particles will be confronted with the magnetic powers of Magneto ? No you can't, nobody can.

Nobody of the Magneto defenders have answered this question. Or, can anybody guarantee me they know:

1. the exact extent of Magneto's "absorbing powers" ?
2. the origin of the unknown particles and their role ?
3. how the unknown particles will interact with Magneto's power (who is, by the way, NOT magnetism incarnated). For all we know, it' KABLOOM-Magneto.

i think ppl are getting a little bit too crazy with magneto's supposed abilty to absorb electrons. when black bolt gets his scream on its the massive "uncontrollable disturbance" of the electron interaction field that causes the shockwave. the same way the moving of tectonic plates cuases e-quakes. so after BB does his thing its not the electrons are any other ambient particles themselves that are going to reach magneto its the subsequent shockwave thats gonna reduce him to subatomic particles.

the same way guys like hulk and superman can just CLAP up a hurricane from outta nowhere. i dont know the exact "science" behind it so dont try to get into it with me, but i think its when the sound barrier gets broken or something those "free floating" electrons explode and concuss the flow of air thats in these elctrons immediate vicinty or somthing. IDK so dont try to counter my reasoning

Originally posted by Khellendros
I have a question, though. How would Magneto know Black Bolt uses a particle that interacts with electrons to produce this shockwave? I mean, knowing he could ignore lightning (electricity) and Ice Man's attacks (superconductawhatnow?) is fairly simple science these days. How would he know that Black Bolt is using an unidentifiable particle that interacts with electrons to produce a shockwave of pure destructive force?

Magneto used to be an X-man. They keep all kinds of files on just about everybody. In fact, most superhero teams keep extensive records about friends and foes and frequently share intel with each other. Presumably, Magneto would know about BB's powers from those files.

Another way he could know is by reading BB's energy signature right away. Magneto indicated that elemental mutants (and specialty mutants like Forge) can actually perceive the world along the elemental lines they control. So Magneto would be able to read the energy that BB eminates and have an instinctive idea of how to approach the fight.

Finally, Magneto, just by putting his shields up (which, as I mentioned earlier, works by removing electrons from objects and automatically generating an identical charge), would be able to block the charged energy coming his way.

As for whether it's "charged energy" or a shockwave, I'll address that a bit further below.


Also, I know Magneto can manipulate electrons, but at some point, BB's attack stops relying on electrons and just becomes a shockwave. How could Magneto stop that, he can't just move all the electrons in the area away from Black Bolt can he?

His shield, which works based upon rejecting electrons, would do that automatically. Any electron-based energy his way would be automatically repelled with a negative charge.


You call his scream "charged energy". Well, is it positively charged? Negatively? Does changing it from positive to negative effect the fact that it destroys anything it comes into contact with? I don't even think calling it charged energy means what you think it does. I think, once the initial electron/particle reaction happens, the resulting energy is out of Magneto's hands, but that's just me. I'm just looking for answers to my questions, I'm still unsure about who could beat who.

Given that it's electron-based energy, it would be negatively charged, since an electron is negative energy. If Black Bolt generated Protons, then, you know....

By generating negative EM energy, Magneto would repel re-direct BB's energy back at him. I don't know how BB would react to that. Perhaps he's immune to his own power, perhaps he could absorb it back into himself, perhaps he could disperse his own energy, I don't know. But either way, it wouldn't hurt Magneto.

I'll address the shockwave thing below.


So we have an "unknown type of particle which interacts with ambient electrons." The writers don't have the slightest clue how BB's powers work, but if you insist on getting all scientifically : it's not mere electrons, but an interaction of unknown particles and electrons.

I talked about this in an earlier post. I said that while the unknown particle interacts with ambient electrons is the cause of the attack, the effect of the attack is very much known and fully understood. It generates a shockwave of protonic energy. The unknown particles just facilitates the stimulation that creates the blast. So Magneto wouldn't have to deal with that.


That's very important, or do you think Magneto can absorb the electrons and neutralize the unknown particles in half a second ?

No, because there's no release of the unknown particle, according to his bio. It's just the stimulus.


Nobody of the Magneto defenders have answered this question. Or, can anybody guarantee me they know:

Guarantee is a strong word. It's all speculation and theory.


1. the exact extent of Magneto's "absorbing powers" ?

Untested. It's one of those mysteries, like whether there's really a limit to Hulk's strength, or whether Juggy is really infinitely durable. Perhaps a writer would write it so that Magneto does get overwhelmed. That's ok. Perhaps another writer would write it so that Magneto easily absorbs it. That's ok too. All I can do is say that he has the ability to absorb that type of energy. It's completely open whether or not there's a limit to how much of that type of energy he can absorb, given that there's no evidence for or opposed to it. I say yes, maybe you say no. That's the comic board for ya.


2. the origin of the unknown particles and their role ?

If anyone could answer that, it wouldn't be an unknown particle. It's a lot like "extra-dimensional sources" that seems to be responsible for half the superpowers in the Marvel Universe. But as I said above, it doesn't matter what the unknown particles are...they're just the catalyst for his power, not the output.


3. how the unknown particles will interact with Magneto's power (who is, by the way, NOT magnetism incarnated). For all we know, it' KABLOOM-Magneto.

Didn't you ask all three of these in the beginning of your post?

The explanation on the shockwave is coming below.


i think ppl are getting a little bit too crazy with magneto's supposed abilty to absorb electrons. when black bolt gets his scream on its the massive "uncontrollable disturbance" of the electron interaction field that causes the shockwave. the same way the moving of tectonic plates cuases e-quakes. so after BB does his thing its not the electrons are any other ambient particles themselves that are going to reach magneto its the subsequent shockwave thats gonna reduce him to subatomic particles.

ok, about the shockwaves. I think there's a misunderstanding on the parts of all three of you about what exactly a shockwave is.

A shockwave is what's considered a P-type wave. It's the propagation of a change in volume. Essentially, it squeezes and unsqueezes whatever medium it's using (in this case, electron energy and air). The shockwave itself is meaningless - it's just the squeezing of the air. That's like saying, "he was killed by a sonic boom". It's not a sonic boom that kills you, it's the sound energy that kills you. What does the damage of a shockwave is the individual particles vibrating to and fro in the direction of the propagation. The "individual particles" that vibrate in the direction of the shockwave are particles of whatever caused the disturbance in the first place. In this case, it's the electron energy that was released by the interaction between the unknown particles and the electrons. It generated a shockwave in its wake, but that's not what gets you. It's the rapid vibration of the energy creating massive destruction that gets you. And it would get anybody...except someone who can control charged energy.

It was a little science-intensive, but I hope that made sense.

Can't Magneto's electro magnitic Force Field block attacks agianst him ? This question was probably already asked I am not sure. But I know magneto lives off the entire earths magnitic field. In the 90's Xmen cartoon on asteriod M one of his top acolytes drain his energy and his body plain out disappear . But when he got close enough to the earth he reappeared. Because the earths Magnitic field revived him . But I don't think there is a limit with magneto. I think he draws his power from the earth's electro magnitic field and that's alot of power . He can run out though but as long he's near the earth he can always recharge and if anything electrical makes him stronger he can use his powers probably at a greater maximun level. When you attack you don't hold it in. Doesn't magneto project magnitic beams or blast to. And if he's made stronger won't that make his force field stronger?

Also another thing If magneto was in a Ship and it was about to explode his force field would protect Him agianst the explosion and the enivorment around him wouldn't effect him.

Yes, Magneto had forcefields that block attacks against them. I don't recall it ever being broken outright, though Thor came close back in the 70s. A couple of other people have managed to get around it too, but again, not since his second power up.

As for Magneto losing his body, that was only in the cartoon, though there have been some hints recently in Excalibur that he doesn't just harness magnetic energy...he largely IS magnetic energy, and may not actually need a body, which is why he doesn't seem to ever die, even though he should have.

Bump.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Bump.
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
In my court he's guilty on both counts. I always wondered about that. Like if Jean pressed her forehead into his or held her head in the mouth hole of Juggernaut's helmet.

He'd prolly lick her forehead. That's all I have to say.

Bump.

Black Bolt wins.

Blackbolt

Meh, an argument can be made for either really. I can see either winning the majority.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Meh, an argument can be made for either really. I can see either winning the majority.

How do u see magneto winning?

Originally posted by Naija boy
How do u see magneto winning?

Mags' electromagnetic control > Blackbolt's.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Mags' electromagnetic control > Blackbolt's.

Perhaps but Blackbolts control is certainly good enough to make a fight of it, add that to his voice, matter manipulation, output advantage, physical advantages like strength,speed durability and id say BB takes a good majority.

Magneto FTW.

I like this battle, could be a really good read if done well.
Still, Magneto > BB.

Has Magneto ever been shown to absorb/discharge that much energy?

Originally posted by Naija boy
How do u see magneto winning?

With his power set, Magneto has a lot of options.

Who wins, really depends on how Magneto and Black Bolt fight. Either can win.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
With his power set, Magneto has a lot of options.

Who wins, really depends on how Magneto and Black Bolt fight. Either can win.

I really dont see how magneto can take the majority bar any stupid fighting on BB's part.. BB has top quality electromagnetic control,matter manip,higher offensive energy output, much better physical stats which he can amp even higher and then of course his voice.