All Of Star Trek Vs All Of Star Wars

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
LOL the atari thing does fit ...lol but being more of a star wars fan I have to say ST had cheesier games than star wars atari empire strikes

back game at the time!( I use to love that one)...lol....anyways NJO Luke force cammnds all the borg the planeteater weakassminded Q and everyone else to just headbutt each other to death........ end of line

And the only reason I went with the movies even though it cuts out the backbone of the star trek universe is because of that bunk NJO Luke but the lack of Qs. If he's as powerful as you guys make him out to be, the only defense without Q really would be the not-from-that-galaxy-force-immunity thing.

Star Trek would die at the hands of a United Star Wars.... So many weapons, so many Jedi... It would be even difficult for the borg to adapt to so many weapons made by the thousands of systems encompassing the Empire, and the the whole Galaxy of Star Wars.. Besides, most of the crew of Star Treck are wussies.

Don't get me wrong I love Star Trek. I'm old enough that I remeber the original series, watched TNG and DS9 and the crap show they called Enterprise and Voyager... Voyager, a woman captain what the hell? (Jk to all my ladies out there)...

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Because the technology suppresses the person's individuality, instincts, and memory. They are essentially a vessel to carry out the hive's will.

So does the programming of the clones, they are basically just people that will follow orders no matter what. If somebody higher in rank then them says, cut of your penis fry it then put it in your mouth and jump down that cliff they will do without question.

I don't see why they wouldn't be able to. Drones have personal forcefields and lightsaber blades and blaster shots are energy are they not?

Yeah, but to adopt to a weapon you would first need to know what it was... Lightsabers won't be stopped by anything but cortosis. Thats what people that have probably searched for a way their entire life found out. Almost nothing can stop a lightsaber. ST won't find a solution in just seconds

To hold itself together, yeah. Enterprise E was getting fired at by that same ship with plasma torpedoes and taking pretty heavy damage, because they had stolen the shield frequency, but it held together after many, many hits.

As did the falcon, Grievous his ship in ROTS, or countless of other ships.

Don't jump to conclusions now. The newer movies without the suck technology were all about the Enterprise. A Federation ship. The good guys. Photon torpedoes are mainly Federation. Asking if photon torpedoes can destroy a planet is essentially asking if the good guys have ever bombed a planet.

They have disabled many-a-ships on the shows but generally don't go for the kill. The borg... oddly, I don't think they destroy a lot of big ships either. They beam them into their cube and disable it, board it, and strip it.

Which really sucks for the Borgs, because a Star Destroyer is already the same size as a borg ship. A Super Star Destroyer is a hell of a lot bigger so that nice trick of theirs won't work anymore.

That's really a credit to their weapons isn't it?

If you think being unable to fire fast, and finish a almost dead ship off is a credit to their weapons then yeah sure it is.

On a science ship, there could be anywhere from 70-200 crew members. There are folks in space stations, their respective stations, and outposts that do research as well.

Exactly, thats absolutely nothing compared what a normal SW laboratory could come up with

That's really more of a credit to the travel speed. It isn't going to help unless they have to race somewhere or escape.

Sure it, want to get upgrades go to Coruscant get them and come back. You can do that all in the same day. It helps. And if you want to escape, well it helps then too.

How would somebody on Earth find out a material pierced the death star's shields? That's something you can only find out on the field or by stealing information. I suppose if they couldn't replicate it they could send a freighter and use wormholes. If it's that desperate of a situation, they can send the cargo back in time so it arrives quicker. Why a material and not a type of weapon that they could just modify torpedoes or phaser banks to be?

If somebody can change their ship while fighting the death star to pierce the shields of the Death star they will be incredible... Honest to god that would be something amazing, I don't give them a chance in hell, its not like they will have all the technical data on the thing. Analysis of that shield, a few lab guys on Coruscant or earth or whatever would be far more likely to do that if you ask me. besides even if they could pierce the shields they would still have to destroy a moon.

Because they usually operate solo, they're designed to hold their own. A lot of the exploration ships are as heavily armed and armored as the gun ships, if not more as they don't have the luxury of back up most of the time.

Scouts operate alone, they are well trained have some reasonable material and can fight if needed. Army's operate in groups. They are well trained have good equipment and charge countless of other soldiers in a fight. Thats what this is. Scouts vs Army's. Them working alone does not help them in a full out war at all.

Star wars don't seem to be that great. Seeing all the shots of the screens, it looks like they're about as complex as an Atari.

The Atari was actually quite complex, the people that created it are great 🙂 But just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. When in ST you see the bridge you see people talk and all that shit in SW you see a war going on. But look at any bridge in any movie, there are a shit load of people there doing a shit load of things. What they do? I have no idea. But thats just because SW focuses on war, ST focuses more on the crew.

I know after one shot they'll know to stay away from the giant circle but damn the movie's single borg cube! Really, I think the borg are their only hope in that case.

Well then they are just screwed... And how can you stay away from it? Unless you want to run, in which case SW will just follow you with the Death Star.

Actually I'm not so sure about that. SW travels threw pre determined hyperspace routes. ST just fly's, but okay SW would launch a few scout droids hope they find something and then attack.

Hmm... Wikipedia describes it as closer to the space distorting method of travel. And that Star Trek does indeed use, or at least the concept, it for communications.

Oh, and the mystical warp 10 is infinite speed.

Oops 😛 lol

Anyways just find the speed post a few pages back, it was gathered from the official SW and ST site I think.

Size isn't always relative to power. The future Janeway's ship had the power to destroy borg ships with one shot. And the Species 8472 bio ships could destroy them with one beam as well with their flower-like beam attack and all the ships needed to use that attack combined aren't as big as a borg cube, a star destroyer, or even an average star trek ship.

No its not, but when you are fighting somebody that you know nothing about you won't shoot a normal ship. You take out the biggest one first.

Originally posted by Fishy
So does the programming of the clones, they are basically just people that will follow orders no matter what. If somebody higher in rank then them says, cut of your penis fry it then put it in your mouth and jump down that cliff they will do without question.

Yeah, but to adopt to a weapon you would first need to know what it was... Lightsabers won't be stopped by anything but cortosis. Thats what people that have probably searched for a way their entire life found out. Almost nothing can stop a lightsaber. ST won't find a solution in just seconds

They obviously have a problem with forcefields as they get trapped behind them.

Well okay, did the bad guys ever blow up an entire planet?

Which really sucks for the Borgs, because a Star Destroyer is already the same size as a borg ship. A Super Star Destroyer is a hell of a lot bigger so that nice trick of theirs won't work anymore.

The super star destroyer, yeah, way too long. and probably too wide to fit inside.

If you think being unable to fire fast, and finish a almost dead ship off is a credit to their weapons then yeah sure it is.

Exactly, thats absolutely nothing compared what a normal SW laboratory could come up with

Sure it, want to get upgrades go to Coruscant get them and come back. You can do that all in the same day. It helps. And if you want to escape, well it helps then too.

If somebody can change their ship while fighting the death star to pierce the shields of the Death star they will be incredible... Honest to god that would be something amazing, I don't give them a chance in hell, its not like they will have all the technical data on the thing. Analysis of that shield, a few lab guys on Coruscant or earth or whatever would be far more likely to do that if you ask me. besides even if they could pierce the shields they would still have to destroy a moon.

And it's not that hard to modify phaser banks and torpedoes. The phaser banks can be tweaked, modulated, and adjusted via the control panels and torpedoes can be opened up and modified before launching.

Scouts operate alone, they are well trained have some reasonable material and can fight if needed. Army's operate in groups. They are well trained have good equipment and charge countless of other soldiers in a fight. Thats what this is. Scouts vs Army's. Them working alone does not help them in a full out war at all.

The Atari was actually quite complex, the people that created it are great 🙂 But just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. When in ST you see the bridge you see people talk and all that shit in SW you see a war going on. But look at any bridge in any movie, there are a shit load of people there doing a shit load of things. What they do? I have no idea. But thats just because SW focuses on war, ST focuses more on the crew.

Well then they are just screwed... And how can you stay away from it? Unless you want to run, in which case SW will just follow you with the Death Star.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Then I guess the programming will be programmed over by programming.

I doubt it can be done.

That's usually how it works. Person hits drone A in the chest, takes him out. Person hits drone B in the chest, takes him out. Person hits drone C in the chest and the shot is blocked by the forcefield and person is screwed. Drone A and B regenerate and return to work. Lightsaber wounds would probably be a bit much to regenerate from.

Person C dies all the same.. Jedi use the force and kill them.

They obviously have a problem with forcefields as they get trapped behind them.

And you think ST people wouldn't?

Not in the movies. Not with a ship at least.

Meaning that from what we know SW has more firepower.

Borg cubes are almost twice as wide as a star destroyer's largest dimension, length. And because they're cubes, their other dimensions dwarf the star destroyer dimensions.

Oh come on, seriously... It would fill the entire ship... There is no way it would fit in. Unless the borg cube has no interior at all.

The super star destroyer, yeah, way too long. and probably too wide to fit inside.

So no way to get the strongest technology and most of the soldiers

Unable to fire fast? They can squeeze off like 8-10 phaser shots and torpedoes in one pass.

Then why can't they finish off a stupid ship?

...What? SW's one laboratory out does all the laboratories on science ships, space stations, outposts, colonized planets, and home planets?

That also means if Coruscant is taken over, they're boned for upgrades/repairs?

Who ever said anything about one? There are a lot of manufactors in SW working on ships and upgrades and whatever trying to get more money, a lot of them could be on Coruscant or on other planets, I just named Coruscant as an example I could have said Dantooine, Tatooine, Naboo, Alderaan, Malachor, Korriban the list goes on and on and on.

The reason I question that is because to find the weakness in the shielding, you'll have to analyze it. And if they're doing that on Earth then they obviously have the technology already and know the weakness and don't need to analyze it for weakness.

Sure you do, knowing what it is and how to defeat it are two different things.

And it's not that hard to modify phaser banks and torpedoes. The phaser banks can be tweaked, modulated, and adjusted via the control panels and torpedoes can be opened up and modified before launching.

Yeah all with limited material that they already have... Don't you see the weakness in this? You can get a normal torpedo but you will never make it a nuke unless you can go back and get the stuff you need to build a Nuke or your in the A-team.

They're not scouts. They have scouts. Star Fleet exploration ships are designed to be powerful, tough, and self sufficient. They're designed as the veritable "floating fortress."

They still aren't fleets... They are not made for fighting as much as SW is.

The people on the crew are monitoring this stations. Shields man worries about shields. Helmsman worries about steering, usually to the Captain's orders. Weapons man worries about weapons. Engineer worries about engines. Talking is reports and status checks.

Congratulations you know which member of the crew does what, in SW we have no idea. Does that mean they don't do shit? No... They do a lot of stuff otherwise they wouldn't even be there.

They avoid the laser the same way Spiderman avoids getting shot. They move out of the way before the shot is fired.

Or like a Jedi avoids them..

But for crying out load, that argument is just lame. They avoid the shot... They won't avoid it, it fires in seconds it arrives before they know what hit them. And if they move before its fired the Death Star will just adjust. They did so against the Rebel fleet... What would make the borg any different.

Now seriously this debate will go on and on and on and on and on... Lets make a list of a few things okay

Life time.

ST - 300 years
SW - thousands upon thousands

Primairy goal

ST - Discover new systems and planets. Create peace.
SW - Destroy the enemy

What to do with enemy's

ST - Oh their planet is going to be destroyed lets help them to create peace
SW - Blow them all up

Speed

ST - Set speed that can travel everywhere
SW - Unlimited faster speed, but in existing routes.

Ship fire power

ST - Constantly creating stronger one's that still aren't able to blow up a ship (creating stronger one's is great but it can make you wonder how much the upgrades help)
SW - Enough to level planets. How much that is? No idea.

Greatest advantage(s)

ST - Borg
SW - Death Star, the Force, better trained ground troops

All in all this brings me to one conclusion. The only place ST has a chance is in space. But that seems strange doesn't it? Logic would make it seem like Star Wars would win because they are build to fight. ST does fight yes, but they are not designed for it. And thats the difference here, and thats why I will always think of this fight as unfair.

ST isn't weak, its good enough for what they have to do. But its like throwing [random nation with civil war] against the US, Europe, Russia and China.

That SW would win this fight does not nessecarily make it a better movie, it just basically means that they are more willing to fight and that they are build to fight.

You can debate that all you want, but it would not be logical if ST would win. It would make no sense, the only thing ST would have that would could make it win is Q. If that thing would fight, but he isn't even here and he probably wouldn't fight or perhaps the Borg. But they only have one cube meaning one blast. And unless that cube is stronger then a planet the Super star destroyers could level it.

But lets stop this debate, i'm getting tired of it. Because its back and forward back and forward saying the same things...

Originally posted by Fishy
I doubt it can be done.

Person C dies all the same.. Jedi use the force and kill them.

And you think ST people wouldn't?

Meaning that from what we know SW has more firepower.

Oh come on, seriously... It would fill the entire ship... There is no way it would fit in. Unless the borg cube has no interior at all.

So no way to get the strongest technology and most of the soldiers

Then why can't they finish off a stupid ship?

Who ever said anything about one? There are a lot of malefactors in SW working on ships and upgrades and whatever trying to get more money, a lot of them could be on Coruscant or on other planets, I just named Coruscant as an example I could have said Dantooine, Tatooine, Naboo, Alderaan, Malachor, Korriban the list goes on and on and on.

Sure you do, knowing what it is and how to defeat it are two different things.

Yeah all with limited material that they already have... Don't you see the weakness in this? You can get a normal torpedo but you will never make it a nuke unless you can go back and get the stuff you need to build a Nuke or your in the A-team.

But what modifications would you really need to pass through shielding? The torpedoes already have shielding themselves, hence the glow. It'd just be a matter of matching it to the destroyer frequencies.

They still aren't fleets... They are not made for fighting as much as SW is.

The sucks part is they didn't use any fleets in the movies either. The group attacking the borg cube was just whoever could get there quick enough and help.

Congratulations you know which member of the crew does what, in SW we have no idea. Does that mean they don't do shit? No... They do a lot of stuff otherwise they wouldn't even be there.

They didn't seem to do a whole lot of warring. More stomping on outposts.

Or like a Jedi avoids them..

But for crying out load, that argument is just lame. They avoid the shot... They won't avoid it, it fires in seconds it arrives before they know what hit them. And if they move before its fired the Death Star will just adjust. They did so against the Rebel fleet... What would make the borg any different.

Now seriously this debate will go on and on and on and on and on... Lets make a list of a few things okay

[b]Life time.

ST - 300 years
SW - thousands upon thousands
[/b]

How many of those star wars years were space faring?

[b]Primairy goal

ST - Discover new systems and planets. Create peace.
SW - Destroy the enemy
[/b]

The exploring part is obviously done with star wars.

[b]What to do with enemy's

ST - Oh their planet is going to be destroyed lets help them to create peace
SW - Blow them all up
[/b]

And why are you describing all the Federation, and thus police, actions, poorly, vs all the villianous, and thus destructive, actions?

[b]Speed

ST - Set speed that can travel everywhere
SW - Unlimited faster speed, but in existing routes.[/b]

How fast do the ships travel OUT of hyperspace?

[b]Ship fire power

ST - Constantly creating stronger one's that still aren't able to blow up a ship (creating stronger one's is great but it can make you wonder how much the upgrades help)
SW - Enough to level planets. How much that is? No idea.[/b]

[b]Greatest advantage(s)

ST - Borg
SW - Death Star, the Force, better trained ground troops[/b]

All in all this brings me to one conclusion. The only place ST has a chance is in space. But that seems strange doesn't it? Logic would make it seem like Star Wars would win because they are build to fight. ST does fight yes, but they are not designed for it. And thats the difference here, and thats why I will always think of this fight as unfair.

You can debate that all you want, but it would not be logical if ST would win. It would make no sense, the only thing ST would have that would could make it win is Q.

If that thing would fight, but he isn't even here and he probably wouldn't fight or perhaps the Borg. But they only have one cube meaning one blast. And unless that cube is stronger then a planet the Super star destroyers could level it.

But lets stop this debate, i'm getting tired of it. Because its back and forward back and forward saying the same things...

Out of curiosity, how many Star Trek movies have you seen? And how many shows?

Movies... All of them, but long ago and none of them recently, my knowledge of them is far less then yours obviously but still I remember a few things, which is basically what I try to attack ST on.

Anyways NJO Luke? Its not just NJO Luke... With the EU star wars can no longer be defeated by well pretty much anybody.

NJO Luke, alone can change gravitiy create black holls and with help push entire ships out of the system...

but then you have Naga Sadow - Throws the core of stars at ships (nothing could possibly block that)

Exar Kun - Does the same as Sadow

Revan - Military genius

Tulak Hord - Incredible fighter, will never ever be beaten by anything but a shit load of force users

Marka Ragnos - unknown how powerful he is, but it has to be incredible

Nihilus - Just eats everybody (the only chance SW would have against Q)

Kreia - Incredibly skilled in the force kills people easily by just moving her hand and these are incredibly powerful people

Infinite Empire - An Empire filled with force users who used the force to fly their ships, these guys are going to be incredibly hard to kill... the starwars movie guys wouldn't stand a chance against them

Star Forge - Factory that creates a lot of capitol ships a minute.

Star Trek would get a lot more, but so would SW and stop including the movies and you will without any doubt have a fleet so powerful and so big that casualty's mean nothing. You would have so many troops that they could block out the sun itself, a billion times. You would have more force users then ST has people.. EU makes this so unfair you can't even call it a fight anymore.

Let the borg unite throw a star, let them eat ships... Throw a thousand more at them and ram them. Let them come at SW with a shit load of new weapons, even if they could blow a ship away with one shot they would still get rammed into oblivion. SW can win just by sacrificing billions of troops. I wouldn't want to have any technology on my side if that was the result.

But okay lets continue the debate then, its not like I have anything better to do 😛

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
You doubt biological programming can be destroyed by technological means? The clone programming is in their memory and their memory is assimilated by the collective. They take what they want and leave the rest. That means battle tactics are handed over but obedience to the empire is thrown away.

The programming isn't done threw memory, I don't know how it is done, we have no way of knowing if it can be over written. No amount of emotions can do it thats for sure, so really this is a unknown... Worthy of a debate on its own, but nothing we will ever reach a conclusion on.

Alright, you forced me to play the card. They don't come from the Star Wars galaxy and are not affected by the force then.

Well in that case you can have Q if he can't affect anything anymore either 😛 but thats just bullshit and you know it

Regular people would. Borg can walk through forcefields. The point was lightsabers have trouble with forcefields and drones have personal forcefields.

Okay so they can walk threw them, meaning that jails will be very ineffective. Sucks for Jedi who like to arrest but I guess murder will just have to happen then.

How so? There's no doubt that they're capable of bombing planets to the ground but the only movie that was even remotely about a planet was in Insurrection. There was a plan to move the inhabitants of a planet so a race of vanity obsessed aliens could use it to reverse their aging.

Right, I don't understand how this shows that they have superior fire power but okay fine with me.

Seriously, it's very spacious. It houses even big ships like the enterprise easily. It's a very efficient design.

No doubt, to pull ships in it, it has to be effective. But this ship is as long as Borg Cube. So in order to be put in it, it would have to go from one end to the other. Filling a big part of the ship. So that part of the ship could have no interior at all. Even thick walls could prevent a Star Destroyer from entering... It doesn't really matter they can pull rebel ships in it but they can not pull a Star destroyer in because its basically the same size, it just won't fit.

Do regular star destroyers carry information for their crew to reference and research? Do star destroyers use the same type of technology as the super star destroyers?

Probably but regular star destroyers won't fit, Rebel ships will so they can draw those in (well probably) but I have no idea if that does any good because they will have very little technical data on Star Destroyers... At least nothing that would help them destroy it a lot easier.

Which ship? The bird-or-prey that was destroyed? The enterprise? Even without shields they had hull armor and structural shields. The borg cube? Those things are monsters. They're so beastie they even regenerate damage without the need of a repair crew.

Okay Borg are going to be hard to destroy by anything but the Death Star but the rest can be done all the same

There are many malefactors in star trek as well. The Klingons and Cardassians have a couple dozen planets under their belts each.

Of course they do, but what does that matter? Let them have that shit, the point is its harder for them to return and get the upgrades and new things needed on their ship. SW doesn't have that problem. So maybe they could both develop upgrades at the same speed they would still take more time to upgrade, a downside on their part

But if you have the technology then you ultimately know its strengths and weaknesses. You know what does and doesn't pass through it, you know what kind of energy it is, etc.

That would require a lot of work, just look at how long hackers sometimes take to crack a simple program. Then take that with a million unknowns and a lot of other stuff they have to find out. Its like with D-Day.

The allies knew Normandy had a beach, great they knew what kind of defences it had. But that wasn't enough they had to know what kind of sand the beach was, they had to know what types of mines and everything and they had to analyse it. Knowing alone isn't enough.

I don't know if antimatter is nuclear or not so I don't know if photon/quantum torpedoes would be considered nukes... actually I think converting one into a nuke would weaken it.

The nuclear thing was an example. A normal earth sub would not be able to fire nukes if they don't have them on board even though they would know how to make it.

But what modifications would you really need to pass through shielding? The torpedoes already have shielding themselves, hence the glow. It'd just be a matter of matching it to the destroyer frequencies.

In ST maybe in SW no. Don't you think it would have been done otherwise? It probably would have been, those things are not something you just shut down. And I don't know what kind of upgrades would be needed to allow them to pass threw shields and thats the point neither does ST because they are fighting something they don't know with technology that doesn't even resemble theirs.

Well obviously one ship isn't a fleet. That's why they come together and collaborate. And you can't be made for fighting more than something else. It either is or isn't. Obviously star destroyers and trek ships, heck, pretty much all of them except scouts, sci/med, shuttles, and escape pods, were built to fight.

Yeah? A Sniper rifle is made for killing a Uzi is made for killing a M16 and an AK-47 all made for killing those guns that a police officer uses are made for killing. Which would one would you rather have on a battlefield? One is designed for one thing and the other for the other.

The sucks part is they didn't use any fleets in the movies either. The group attacking the borg cube was just whoever could get there quick enough and help.

Exactly. ST is able to operate alone. SW does not do that, they want the fleets they need the fleets to do the fighting because the opponent has it. In the movies they might form fleets but they aren't even used to fighting like that. They don't have a real fleet, just loose operating ships works for them but it won't make you win a war against somebody that does use fleets.

Well, your earlier point seemed to be the trek ship bridges were just full of lollygaggers chitchatting the day away while star wars guys were busy doing "war things".

I didn't mean it like that, what I meant was that ST movies and shows focused more on the one ship instead of the war. Which makes you know more about the ship. We don't know if SW never did anything like that, create new torpedo's and weapons and all that crap probably not but we don't know. With ST you do know...

So Jedi are piloting the star destroyers and death star now?

No... But your argument that the Borg Cube could avoid an attack Like Spiderman makes no sense... I was just retaliating to that argument with something that had nothing to do with, namely the fact that Jedi can avoid the attacks.

*Biff Tannen voice* Seennnsssoors. What kind of jamming did they have in the SW movies? Was it radar jamming like I think I'm remembering? Radar is as dated as spatial torpedoes.

I have no idea

Different people advance at different rates. Look at the advancement of computer technology now.

Yeah they advance at different rates, but look when all our mayor technological advancements were made, all of them were done during wars. SW has bigger wars... More dangerous for the people because their planet could be bombed every second (and those planets did have shields btw)

How many of those star wars years were space faring?

Well the thousands I mentioned were. At least 24.000 years of them were with Hyperspace. Space Travel was around before that probably. And thats just the history that we know, who knows what was before the Rakatan Empire.

Actually the federation goals are to make allies, explore, and police their territories. And that's only the federation.

Well okay policing their territories is logical, but that still means mostly exploring and creating peace opposed to conquering.

The exploring part is obviously done with star wars.

Exploring is over, the people know what they want to know, know what they need to know.

C'mon man, why would the federation force themselves onto their enemies to help them with a situation they didn't know about in the first place?

I don't know, ask the script writers.

Divided in two because it became to long...

And why are you describing all the Federation, and thus police, actions, poorly, vs all the villianous, and thus destructive, actions?

Because destructive actions and full out wars give us a far greater indication of what they are able to do.

And why do you bring up travel speed? With the SW limited sensors, this only helps the Trek side since they'd be able to warp around the fleets without them being able to predict where they'll appear.

I was just listing the things that both had on some fields... Traveling IMO is actually an advantage for ST, even though their speed is lower. It kinda all depends on the situation you are in actually.

How fast do the ships travel OUT of hyperspace?

I have no idea...

Planets generally aren't shielded. How well would the star destroyers fare if they started shooting at each other?

Planets are shielded, and do have defenses... How well would they do? Well a few of the Star destroyers were knocked down when they refused to shoot back against the entire rebel fleet. Obviously they weren't to scared of the rebels because they let the Death Star do all the work. I'm guessing those things can take a few blasts.

This really if only movies count. And you should probably add tactical advantage. You don't see trek fleets just firing like a line of redcoats in a field.I want to know about this NJO Luke. What can he do? And what can he do against creatures that don't have the force flowing through them?

see previous post

But they were built to fight. They were built to survive. They have ships specifically designed to do damage as well. You can't wander around space without the ability to crack some skulls.

Of course not, but there is a difference between fighting and fighting wars. Those that fight wars are going to concentrate more on shields and weapons then those that just fight.

re are other species and weapons that give star trek an even greater chances but it's the undefined supposively great power of NJO Luke that made me agree to the movies only thing. And there is such a loophole in the no Q statement made by the thread creater.

Well Q makes ST win by a snap of the fingers if they could get Q to do that at least... So its really unfair to add him.

if only they used 2 or 3 cubes in the movie.

I wouldn't have minded a few star throwing lunatics in the movies either 🙁

I'm actually having fun. But I want to learn more about NJO Luke before I continue. I want to see if he's so show stopping that it was worth cutting such a huge portion of the trek power just to get rid of him.

Out of curiosity, how many Star Trek movies have you seen? And how many shows? [/B]

See my previous post for answers on those things 😛

Dang... I leave for a few days and look what happens...

Swanky Tuna... Its nice to see someone else try to reason with the SW side...

Fishy... Have you even watched ST... I have just gotten done watching all seven seasons of the Next Gen ST series so its fresh in my mind.

And why do you get so hung up on the Death Star... I have already given you a way to destroy it very easily... The Pegasus. It has a phased cloaking device which means it passes through shields and matter straight to the Death Star core... a few photon torpedos later the Death Star is a smoldering pile of scrap.

As far as the Borg Cube vs a Super Star Destroyer, the SSD might be longer but if you do the math the total MASS of the Borg Cube is much greater than that of the SSD... so ONE Borg Cube is actually larger than a SSD.

Also we are talking about thousands... possibly hundreds of thousands of Borg Cubes... not just a couple.

This crap about just the movies has to go... thats not the original rules.

Well fine you want EU? How will a borg cube match up against a STAR? Or a few of them. How will they fight when they get pushed out of the system before they can even fight. How would they manage to destroy the Death Star when the force alone can crush their entire ship.

The borg are apparently Organic so what would they do when their entire ship is blown up from the inside. How would they manage to stop Vader or Luke or Sidious or Revan or Exar or Ulic or Malak or Ragnos or Sadow or [one of the other thousand strong force users here] from choking everything in that ship immediately?

And everything that remains when the force users get tired can just be rammed by a few droids in every ship the star forge poops out every few seconds.

Great googly moogly. The thread creator obviously wanted star trek to lose if they included all those jazzy force users but no Q. Or even q. Time for a "short" reply!

Originally posted by Fishy
The programming isn't done threw memory, I don't know how it is done, we have no way of knowing if it can be over written. No amount of emotions can do it thats for sure, so really this is a unknown... Worthy of a debate on its own, but nothing we will ever reach a conclusion on.

Well in that case you can have Q if he can't affect anything anymore either 😛 but thats just bullshit and you know it

No doubt, to pull ships in it, it has to be effective. But this ship is as long as Borg Cube. So in order to be put in it, it would have to go from one end to the other. Filling a big part of the ship. So that part of the ship could have no interior at all.

That would require a lot of work, just look at how long hackers sometimes take to crack a simple program. Then take that with a million unknowns and a lot of other stuff they have to find out.

Exactly. ST is able to operate alone. SW does not do that, they want the fleets they need the fleets to do the fighting because the opponent has it. In the movies they might form fleets but they aren't even used to fighting like that. They don't have a real fleet, just loose operating ships works for them but it won't make you win a war against somebody that does use fleets.

No... But your argument that the Borg Cube could avoid an attack Like Spiderman makes no sense... I was just retaliating to that argument with something that had nothing to do with, namely the fact that Jedi can avoid the attacks.

Originally posted by Fishy
The borg are apparently Organic

Originally posted by Fishy
Well fine you want EU? How will a borg cube match up against a STAR? Or a few of them. How will they fight when they get pushed out of the system before they can even fight. How would they manage to destroy the Death Star when the force alone can crush their entire ship.

Two Words... Yuuzhan Vong. They are from another galaxy and not affected by the Force... So why should we assume that the ST Universe would be affected.

Also the ST universe has plenty of Jedi caliber super beings to help fight against the jedi.

The borg are apparently Organic so what would they do when their entire ship is blown up from the inside. How would they manage to stop Vader or Luke or Sidious or Revan or Exar or Ulic or Malak or Ragnos or Sadow or [one of the other thousand strong force users here] from choking everything in that ship immediately?

Umm... You keep using the Force as your reason for being able to win... so I will say again. Yuuzhan Vong. I know its a cheap move... but so is restating Jedi.

And everything that remains when the force users get tired can just be rammed by a few droids in every ship the star forge poops out every few seconds.

Not quite sure how droid poop is going to hurt anything... 😉

Look... This thread said no Q... Okay I can understand why. Q has stated that he travels to other galaxies and universes thus leading to the conclusion that he has the same power everywhere... plus he is kind of gay. But the ST universe is filled with other beings that have telekinetic powers, telepathic powers, and other powers that might even surpass a Jedi...

I think that the real issue is would they even fight? Do you think that Picard would just blindly engage anyone without trying to figure things out. Do you think Akabar or Luke or Yoda would just say "Kill them all"? I dont think so... which is why I decided to write the little story that I have been posting in here...

PT III coming soon.

more story! I have been waiting n waiting n waiting n waiting...lol...and now whining for it!...lmao

lol... I didnt think anyone was really reading them. I will get it posted today. I still want to get a group of people together to really write a story about this topic. I think it would be cool.

I posted it in the star wars vs storytime thread......and yes I made sure to point out that noone could edit add to etc...thought I pm ed you when I posted it there?

Humm... I dont remember getting one... but I am pretty absent minded. I will check it out.

Universes Collide PT 3

The darkness of space sparkled with the brilliance of warp cores exploding and reactors going critical as the forces of good an evil clashed. Without warning a brilliant green energy beam erupted from each of the remaining Death Stars. The massive energy beams cut through the lines of ships disintegrating everything in its path. Each beam instantly incinerated three Federation ships along with several Republic cruisers.

Small fighters darted in and out of the massive superstructures of the capital ships while turbo laser fire and phaser blasts incinerated everything they came into contact with.

Worf – “Captain… On screen.”

Captain Picard and Admiral Akabar watched as the massive Borg sphere approached Death Star number 2. The Death Star rotated and fired a shot from its massive planet killing weapon. The beam pierced the massive hull of the Borg Sphere and vaporized over 40% of the Borg vessel. Moments later the remains of the Borg Sphere seemed to shatter as the thousands of smaller Borg Cube ships that had merged for form the sphere separated from each other and swarmed on the Death Star. The Death Star seemed to grow in size as ship after Borg ship attached themselves to the Imperial fortress. In moments you could see Borg technology growing over the hull of the Death Star.

Picard – “Admiral… If the Borg assimilate that Death Star they will be unstoppable. We must destroy that station!”

Akabar – “We have a squadron of ships navigating to its core as we speak Captain. If they fail you may have to use the Pegasus again.”

Riker – “Captain. I don’t know if the phased cloaking devise can withstand the energy of another explosion of that magnitude, But we are ready if we are needed.”

Moments later the second Death Star ripped apart from the inside by a massive explosion. Two thirds of the massive sphere was destroyed leaving a burning wreck of hull floating in space. Suddenly thousands of Borg vessels started exploding taking Federation, Republic, and Imperial ships with them.

Data – “The massive destruction of such a high number of Borg must have disrupted their collective. This disruption must have been enough to cause a catastrophic meltdown of the Borg consciousness causing their destruction.”

Worf – “They are not all gone sir. Sensors indicate over 700 Cubes still remaining. They must have restored their collective before it could affect them.”

Akabar – “We can deal with them later. Our task force is about to press into the core of the Imperial fleet.”

Picard – “Copy that Admiral. We are right behind you.”

Energy surged through the engines of the massive capital ships as they plowed into the heart of the Imperial fleet. Massive barrages of turbo lasers scored hits on the hulls and ripped molten armor from them. Federation ships weaved in and out of the Imperials scoring hit after hit from their phasers and torpedos. The Federation shields did not last long under the barrage of turbo laser fire and soon the nimble ships were scorged flaming hulks colliding into both friend and foe.

More ships pored into the fray as other were destroyed. Navigation became dangerous as the burning hulks of the destroyed ships littered the battlefield. The Imperials began to close in and without warning hundreds of Federation ships lost control and began to tumble through space. The Imperials has maneuvered their Interdictator Star Destroyers into range and activated their gravity wells which did not react well with the Federations warp cores. Taking advantage of the situation the Empire let loose with everything they had and watched as the Federation ships crumbled under their firepower.

Picard – “NO! All ships pull back. Regroup at the following coordinates and await my orders. Admiral!”

Akabar – “Captain… Pull your ships back. We will take out those Star Destroyers. That should get your fleet back in the fight.”

Worf – “Captain. Sensors indicate more ships coming out of hyperspace.”

Thousands more Imperial ships from all eras poured into the system and advanced on the Republic and Federation fleets.

Picard watched the view screen as the Interdictator Star Destroyers were turned into flaming balls of escaping gasses. They fell from the fight as if falling from orbit. More blasts shot out from the remaining Death Star as it tried to fend off the remaining Borg onslot.

Picard – “Worf open a channel. Klingon and Romulan Commanders. Now is the time.”

As the comm channel closed thousands of ships decloaked and began to move in. Akabar had obviously given a similar command. Moments later hundreds of Calamarian Captial ships, frigates, blockade runners, Cracken class attack cruisers, and gun ships of all sizes came out of hyperspace and headed for the center of combat.

Fighters, freighters, shuttles, and scout ships weaved in and out in a massive dogfight. Phasers splitting Tie Fighters into burning balls of plasma, Imperial fighters blazed trailes through the Federation shuttles as their shields fizzled out under the shier volume of fire. Back and forth the two sides fought as the larger ships moved closer to the engagement.

Emergency klaxons sounded on many of the Federation ships as the security chiefs yelled… “BOARDING PARTIES!”

-This is my imagined idea. No one has the right to add, delete, or finish this story. Comments only. -

I am gonna be sick! I cant take the suspense this is worse than any once a week tv series...MORE MORE MORE!!!! I love it quit your job and just write! thanx....lol

LOL... well thanks for the high praise... You should see what I can do when I actually take the time to write it all out.