Originally posted by calvin44
I don't think SW fans go to ST conventions either...
Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
Mr. Spock, does ST win this debate?Oooo... the thumb's down! Pwned!
Well, the most I've gotten out of you is "I don't believe SW is superior, therefore ST wins" in about eighty different varieties, along with the whole "No, I wasn't talking about weapons and tactics" dodge when you can't argue in the face of facts and figures without looking like a complete fanboy. So really, why are you arguing this with us? You don't intend to have an open mind about it and you sure as hell can't prove your case with even a half-assed logical argument. If anything, this guy has more going for him than you do-
Please point out when I suggested the two duke it out in the skies Red Baron style.
My entire stance has been the Star Trek universe using their greater understanding of a wider variety of sciences. I venture this guess because of the problems that were encountered in the Star Wars universe that could of easily been solved with science.
For example, much of the droid army could of been demolished with some kind of EMP shot but instead, hundreds of jedi were slaughtered.
Considering how devastating temporal science can be offensively, it isn't used in a galaxy that's supposedly been warring on and off for how long?
This is why I say the Star Wars universe would have trouble against temporal tech. They either haven't developed that leg of science or they don't understand it to use it to their advantage. The Krenim empire spanned 800 planets and had ships equipped with temporal weaponry.
And what 14 year old's computer are you hacking these pictures off of?
Originally posted by calvin44
The chihuahua is Star Wars.
Please point out when I suggested the two duke it out in the skies Red Baron style.
I honestly find it hard to see what you're getting at. It seems like you're focusing on severe PIS, or the exception rather than the norm when it comes to determining this fight. It would be like me saying that Napoleon could conquer Europe because he had a hundred Spaniards in his ranks.
My entire stance has been the Star Trek universe using their greater understanding of a wider variety of sciences. I venture this guess because of the problems that were encountered in the Star Wars universe that could of easily been solved with science.
You mean technobabble masturbation? I just read up on the "Krenim" before posting, and it was so full of meaningless jargon I had to remind myself people take that shit seriously. Star Trek prides itself on being an "advanced" civilization, but unfortunately that doesn't mean shit when millions of star ships (Of which the very smallest has firepower in excess of the largest ST ships.). There IS something to be said for drastically larger numbers and stronger weapons, not to mention a far more effective troops, armaments, and battle tactics employed by those in the SW universe.
For example, much of the droid army could of been demolished with some kind of EMP shot but instead, hundreds of jedi were slaughtered.
Erm... Do you even know what you're talking about? SW droids are shielded from EMP. If they weren't, Republic troopers would just hit them with EMP and the war would be over in nine days, tops. And this is really moot since the idea of droids attacking on land is the last possible scenario here. Chances are any droids encountered by ST forces will be in droid starfighters, raping the shit out of ST ships.
Considering how devastating temporal science can be offensively, it isn't used in a galaxy that's supposedly been warring on and off for how long?
Again, you're assuming that SW is inferior in tech because they don't have on particular weapon (Which, btw, is ****ing ridiculous as it's shown and described. The idea that torpedos pass through shields because they have mini-time continium disruption devices and worse- the ship that pushes things out of space and time. I mean, I could argue that ST has been frivolous with its scientific advances, totally neglecting the field of warfare. The very ship I've mentioned (Krenim temporal weapon ship) has shields so weak just one of Voyager's torpedoes can penetrate it. I don't have to bust out figures you'll ignore to get the point across that a barrage from an average SW ship would make that thing disappear.
This is why I say the Star Wars universe would have trouble against temporal tech. They either haven't developed that leg of science or they don't understand it to use it to their advantage. The Krenim empire spanned 800 planets and had ships equipped with temporal weaponry.
Typical Trekkie argument. "X doesn't know Y, therefore it can't contend with Y".
And wow... Not 800 planets? That's NOTHING. SW universe has MILLIONS of planets. Suppose I give you the benefit of the doubt and I say that the Krenim Empire has 900,000 large ships able to fire those time torpedoes (And get close enough to contend with larger SW ships and smaller fighters)... SW universe just steps all over that. Hell, the CIS and the pre-Empire Republic had capitol ships numbering in the millions, not counting private planet navies, the Sith, Star Forge (Which can produce infinite ships), Imperial vessels, etc. I'd really like to see this great offensive by the Krenim while the SW universe is manhandling their asses.
But I understand you're going to say "ST wins... they have one single empire with tenative temporal weapons". Really... if the Voyager can contend with them, I'm sure the SW crew can WTFpwn them.
And what 14 year old's computer are you hacking these pictures off of?
That insult is the forum equivalent of a clumsy first grope on a blind date. But I'm sure a guy masquerading as "Swanky Tuna" is all about smoothness.
Yes, Star Wars is a horny, shivering dog. That sells pseudo-mexican food.
And ST is pwned. Give up already.
Originally posted by calvin44
I meant that Star Trek is also the the red dog, that is getting raped by Star Wars.
Originally posted by Jawa Lord
There are singular entities in Star Wars that would destroy the ST Army.
If Trekkies can dodge the force, let's see them dodge a planet abolishing laser or a enormous star coming at them from an Ancient Sith.
They'd probably just fly to the other side of the Death Star. And how fast have the ancient sith thrown stars? What happened to these ancient sith anyway?
Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
I honestly find it hard to see what you're getting at. It seems like you're focusing on severe PIS, or the exception rather than the norm when it comes to determining this fight. It would be like me saying that Napoleon could conquer Europe because he had a hundred Spaniards in his ranks.
You mean technobabble masturbation? I just read up on the "Krenim" before posting, and it was so full of meaningless jargon I had to remind myself people take that shit seriously.
Again, it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not.
Star Trek prides itself on being an "advanced" civilization, but unfortunately that doesn't mean shit when millions of star ships (Of which the very smallest has firepower in excess of the largest ST ships.). There IS something to be said for drastically larger numbers and stronger weapons, not to mention a far more effective troops, armaments, and battle tactics employed by those in the SW universe.
Again, you're comparing ships to Earth ships that have only been in development for about 200 years. But it's already shown that starfleet uniforms are as durable as at least storm trooper armor as seen when the ewoks rocked the troopers with their wooden arrows and massive heart. I jest.
Erm... Do you even know what you're talking about? SW droids are shielded from EMP. If they weren't, Republic troopers would just hit them with EMP and the war would be over in nine days, tops.
Again, you're assuming that SW is inferior in tech because they don't have on particular weapon
No, that's not what I'm saying. Maybe that's why you're having such a hard time understanding this. I'm saying Star Trek has a wider VARIETY of technology and that IS an advantage.
(Which, btw, is ****ing ridiculous as it's shown and described. The idea that torpedos pass through shields because they have mini-time continium disruption devices and worse- the ship that [b]pushes things out of space and time
.[/b]
Yes, it is ridiculous but it's part of Star Trek. It's like Lord of the Rings for computer nerds.
I mean, I could argue that ST has been frivolous with its scientific advances, totally neglecting the field of warfare. The very ship I've mentioned (Krenim temporal weapon ship) has shields so weak just one of Voyager's torpedoes can penetrate it. I don't have to bust out figures you'll ignore to get the point across that a barrage from an average SW ship would make that thing disappear.
If it was that easy, that's exactly what Voyager would of done to it. The reason it was so hard to destroy is weapons passed right through it as if it wasn't there.
Typical Trekkie argument. "X doesn't know Y, therefore it can't contend with Y".
Yes, that's typically how it works.
And wow... Not 800 planets? That's NOTHING. SW universe has MILLIONS of planets.
I'd like a reference for that. And 800 planets is nothing to scoff at. It's enough resources that they could be a couple weapon ships like Annorax's or go even go on a bigger scale.
Suppose I give you the benefit of the doubt and I say that the Krenim Empire has 900,000 large ships able to fire those time torpedoes (And get close enough to contend with larger SW ships and smaller fighters)... SW universe just steps all over that. Hell, the CIS and the pre-Empire Republic had capitol ships numbering in the millions, not counting private planet navies, the Sith, Star Forge (Which can produce infinite ships), Imperial vessels, etc. I'd really like to see this great offensive by the Krenim while the SW universe is manhandling their asses.
Put those 900k ships back in time a few million years and the tables turn.
But I understand you're going to say "ST wins... they have one single empire with tenative temporal weapons". Really... if the Voyager can contend with them, I'm sure the SW crew can WTFpwn them.
Voyager knew how to modify their shields to resist the attacks. All it really takes is the one empire. You get 2 or 3 time ships that can sustain their crew indefinitely and all you have to do is cruise around the past destroying planets for a few hundred years.
That insult is the forum equivalent of a clumsy first grope on a blind date. But I'm sure a guy masquerading as "Swanky Tuna" is all about smoothness.
Well, it's the real life equivalent of wondering if your profile age is correct. You're only a year and a half or so older than me and I wouldn't be caught dead using "1337 speak" or making genitalia jokes. That's not what I had in mind when I came up with the name.
What I don't get is if one ship, or a small group of ships, can go back in time and erase all life supporting planets, why isn't that a win?
[QUOTE=5890723]Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Humping inanimate objects is also the dog equivalent of jerking off. Thus Star Wars is jerking off to Star Trek because it finds it sexy, for a stuffed dog.
Yeah, Star Trek is inanimate most of the time. The only way their shows ever get attention is to give at least one crew member big honkers for you to stare at (excluding Riker; he's just fat)
What happened to these ancient sith anyway?
They're sitting around, making fun of ST V.
But it's already shown that starfleet uniforms are as durable as at least storm trooper armor as seen when the ewoks rocked the troopers with their wooden arrows and massive heart
In the meanwhile, anyone with a red shirt on are basically cannon fodder for anything.
http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ensign-stormtrooper.shtml
No, that's not what I'm saying. Maybe that's why you're having such a hard time understanding this. I'm saying Star Trek has a wider VARIETY of technology and that IS an advantage.
Tell that to the scriptwriters. Their answer to everything is either Time-travel or send in Q because John DeLancie needs something to do.
Yes, it is ridiculous but it's part of Star Trek. It's like Lord of the Rings for computer nerds.
I thought it was more like Benny Hill in Space for computer nerds.
If it was that easy, that's exactly what Voyager would of done to it. The reason it was so hard to destroy is weapons passed right through it as if it wasn't there.
Sounds like you're describing Voyager's viewing audience: they flipped through channels and overlooked the latest episode as if it weren't even there.
Put those 900k ships back in time a few million years and the tables turn.
Then you put the turkey in the over for five hours until it turns to a nice, juicy brown tone.....
Voyager knew how to modify their shields to resist the attacks.
Too bad it didn't help the stories that trudged out on screen.
Well, it's the real life equivalent of wondering if your profile age is correct. You're only a year and a half or so older than me and I wouldn't be caught dead using "1337 speak" or making genitalia jokes. That's not what I had in mind when I came up with the name.
Okay, spanky, we trust you.
What I don't get is if one ship, or a small group of ships, can go back in time and erase all life supporting planets, why isn't that a win?
That's called "a hack sci-fi writer who wrote himself in a corner because Sweeps-Week is coming up and he thought he had a good plot, and he would have if he'd take his eyes off his Jenna Jameson DVD's and focus on something called WRITING!"
Star Wars=1
Star Trek= -1
💃
Humping inanimate objects is also the dog equivalent of jerking off. Thus Star Wars is jerking off to Star Trek because it finds it sexy, for a stuffed dog.
... Right. Little too fixated on that picture, aren't you?
I'd like to see how that takes place. Just seeing how it could physically take place would be something. The size difference would be akin to an ant fighting the crowd at the super bowl.
And the master of inproper analogies strikes again.
They'd probably just fly to the other side of the Death Star. And how fast have the ancient sith thrown stars? What happened to these ancient sith anyway?
I'm so glad you're well-versed in SW lore. That just makes your decision all the more defensible. First off, the Death Star has more than just its major planet-destroying beam; it has turbolaser batteries, turrets, TIE fighter squadrons, etc. on top of that. The idea that the ST fleet could just "fly around the Death Star" and be okay is stupid.
Secondly, the ancient Sith could make stars go nova inside of a few minutes. The process if incredibly short and very devastating. And this isn't even the the deadliest thing ST has to face; the Empire has superweapons that make the first Death Star look like a paperweight. Hell, the Sun Crusher could WTFpwn an entire SW fleet.
No, it wouldn't be like that at all. It doesn't matter what it is because it happened on Star Trek so it's part of the battle.
Uh, no. We're not arguing "Oh, random plot device X happened in ST, therefore that device can be used to defeat SW." That's not how you make a case for your side. You would have to prove that the plot device is repeatable, that it can exist in both universes (In other words, ST supporters are quick to say "Well, the Force wouldn't work in the ST universe", but then act like their own pseudophysics and science works just fine in SW universe. We call that hypocrisy), and how large this Krenim force really is, because I can provide proof for my side.
Again, it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not.
Alright. Sith Lords use battle meditation which works just fine and affects all ST races. It saps their will, and makes the SW forces fight at 110% efficiency or higher. Other Sith Lords detonate stars, Imperial superweapons blow up planets, more powerful SW tech that would decimate the shields of any ST ship, landtroops and fighter ships that deominate their ST equivalents (Of which ST has few. Their forces are horribly undiverse, regardless of how much you tout their "science".) Then there's the whole element of the SW forces being able to traverse the entirety of Federation space in a day tops, while St ships couldn't conquer the Core inside of a twenty years if it was barren and undefended.
...
And this is where you feed me some bullshit line about how the Borq/Q/Krenim/random Power ST Race is going to "know" how to just go back and time and make SW not happen and be able to perform it easily. Cuz yes, the real answer to ST ever beating SW universe would include the latter being in the Stone Age and even then I'm sure the red-shirts will pile up in the thousands.
Again, you're comparing ships to Earth ships that have only been in development for about 200 years. But it's already shown that starfleet uniforms are as durable as at least storm trooper armor as seen when the ewoks rocked the troopers with their wooden arrows and massive heart. I jest.
Oh, so heaven forbid I point out how ****ed ST ships are in combat with SW ships? Is this where the "give us twenty thousand years" Trekkie argument pops up? Please. Give me a break. ST is pwned.
And I'm sure the durability of Starfleet pajamas is going to defend real good against lightsabers, Sith swords, thermal detonators, and Insert Random Heavy Blaster Here. Not that that matters, since the only time ST "troops" will see action is when they all book for the runabout and an ISD blows their shit out.
Then some other form of electronic attack. Everything has its weaknesses.
Are you deliberately missing the point here? THERE WILL BE NO DROIDS VERSUS STAR TREK WUSSIES IN THEIR UBER PAJAMAS FIGHTING SOME GROUND BATTLE AND THE TREKKIES ALL JUST MAGICALLY LOB EMP GRENADES AND WIN THE GREAT BATTLE.
Can you read that? www.dictionary.com if you need the help. And again, there won't be an instance where droids are going to be "omfg pwned" by Trekkie "frontline troops" (Read: every senior officer on the ship and some random expendables who all have no real combat training or equipment) cuz every ST ship and world is going to be ****ed beyond belief by superior SW firepower and numbers.
No, that's not what I'm saying. Maybe that's why you're having such a hard time understanding this. I'm saying Star Trek has a wider VARIETY of technology and that IS an advantage.
Nazi Germany had a wider VARIETY of weapons, artillery, and whatnot in comparison to the Soviet Army, and yet the latter won because of their hm... OVERWHELMING NUMBERS AND FIREPOWER. You seem to think that the Trekkie pseudoscience fantasy realm is going to recalibrate the temporal paradoxial auxillery manifibulators and just beat a universe full of warriors, conquerers, and galaxy-spanning empires who have access to tech that is, where it exists, superior to ST tech. You cannot argue to me that a phaser is better than a blaster, or that teleports which are easily defeated and only work on stationary beings beat out quick Imperial drop ships. You can't argue to me that the slowness of ST ships is an indication of variety and superiority and therefore, they -just win-.
Learn to prove your case. I suggest you take a class on debating and arguing, because you obviously are clueless.
If it was that easy, that's exactly what Voyager would of done to it. The reason it was so hard to destroy is weapons passed right through it as if it wasn't there.
And yet it had to reappear to target anything and the process was described as requiring precise calculations, etc. etc. Honestly? It's not feasible as a weapon, and they only had one anyways. Slave I has more destructive firepower than the Enterprise, and can strafe that thing once and it's dead.
Yes, that's typically how it works.
No, it doesn't. You're placing far too much value on the few techs that ST actually has, and overlooking the obvious weaknesses ST has instead:
- They're not militant in comparison with modern day armies, let alone SW ones.
- Their shields would get ****ed in a single barrage.
- Their superlightspeed travel is pitiful, and they couldn't even move to defend their own star systems. SW ships not only outnumber and outgun them, but they can just fly right past them and destroy all their planets and shipping docks. Meanwhile, ST is lucky if they can cover the Core Worlds inside of a generation.
- Pajamas don't save moron navy officers who don't know combat.
- Random Plot Devices and unsubstantiated claims don't make arguments. Wait... that's YOUR weakness. Oops.
I'd like a reference for that. And 800 planets is nothing to scoff at. It's enough resources that they could be a couple weapon ships like Annorax's or go even go on a bigger scale.
The Galactic Empire, also known as the New Order or Palpatine's New Order, was the Galactic government established by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine to replace the Galactic Republic.
It consisted of over one million member worlds and fifty million colonies, protectorates, and governorships.
Article with links and sources
Put those 900k ships back in time a few million years and the tables turn.
Wow. You're using my exaggerated figure and applying it to your argument? Can you prove that they have even five ships? Please try.
And yes, I imagine if this was ST universe versus prehistoric SW universe, ST would win. But apparently Trekkies have to change the perimeters of the fight to get a cheap victory.
Oh, let me try...
SW ships enter ST space, jump into hyperspace, arrive above all the major planets (I mean, just one ISD can destroy the surface of a planet, and the Empire alone has 35,000 of them) with an average of ten ships per inhabited ST planet. Orbital bombardment. QED!
Voyager knew how to modify their shields to resist the attacks. All it really takes is the one empire. You get 2 or 3 time ships that can sustain their crew indefinitely and all you have to do is cruise around the past destroying planets for a few hundred years.
Erm... you DO know that every time the Krenim "jumped time" they instead created and went into alternate timelines, right? I wouldn't even rightly consider that an option. Can you say that I beat Bruce Lee in combat if I went into another timeline and killed him as a baby? Wait... if you're a Trekkie, that's all you've got. Nevermind.
What I don't get is if one ship, or a small group of ships, can go back in time and erase all life supporting planets, why isn't that a win?
Not really. It's A ) changing the perimeters of the fight (By taking one faction of ST and having it versus prehistoric/preflight SW universe) and B ) incorrect, since it's stated on the Trek wikicities and other sources that every time the Krenim or others time jump, they split into alternate timelines.
I find this a little amusing. He changes gears every five posts and this whole "ST is more diverse in tech thus they win" argument is the stuff of idiocy. I might never convince Swanky Tuna of anything in all this, but he's convinced me that some people are delusional and unrealistic no matter how much proof you lump in front of them.