All Of Star Trek Vs All Of Star Wars

Started by Borbarad76 pages
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I'd like to see how that takes place. Just seeing how it could physically take place would be something. The size difference would be akin to an ant fighting the crowd at the super bowl.

Size doesn't matter in terms of the SW universe. Sidious in the DE comics (notice single entity) devastated an entire fleet with a force storm. Nihilus before KotoR 2 (notice single entity) drained the lifeforce from an entire planet killing all inhabitants. In "Jedi vs Sith" a single "thought bomb" annihilated the life on an entire planet. And all this stuff wasn't even used by the Ancient Sith Lords who are the greatest force users in the SW universe, draining planets with their force powered devices (Marka Ragnos sceptre) or destroying them.


They'd probably just fly to the other side of the Death Star. And how fast have the ancient sith thrown stars? What happened to these ancient sith anyway?

"The other side of the Death Star" ? You know the Empire has tree of them, right ? So I wonder how they would "fly to the other side". And Sadow had a ship with a weapon installed that could detonate stars or simply rip the core of them off to throw them arround. The Yuuzhan Vong threw entire moons at planets.


Again, you're comparing ships to Earth ships that have only been in development for about 200 years.

Are there any ships in the ST universe that are "in development" for 25,000 years ? The point is that even the smallest SW vessels are able to defeat the largest battleships we have seen in the ST universe in seconds. And since that "Earth ships" are able to contend with nearly everything in the ST universe (Klingon ships, Romulan ships and so on) I don't see the SW ships going down against them...


But it's already shown that starfleet uniforms are as durable as at least storm trooper armor as seen when the ewoks rocked the troopers with their wooden arrows and massive heart. I jest.

Ridiculous statement. The ST vs SW site takes a little error displayed in ROTJ (wow...armor made of plastic looks like armor made of plastic when - in the SW universe - it's craftet out of metal) and therefore ST uniforms = or > ST armor ? And you failed to notice that this storm trooper armor is far away from the most powerful stuff in the SW universe...which would be:
- exoskeletons
- Mandalorian armor
- cortosis armor (able to withstand lightsaber hits)
- Yuuzhan Vong armor (able to withstand lightsaber hits)

And even IF you were right - Stormtroopers outnumber federation troops by what ? 1 to 1 million ?


Then some other form of electronic attack. Everything has its weaknesses.

They have EMP and ion weapons in the SW universe to disable droids. As it seems the droids weren't vunerable to this kind of attacks otherwise they would have been destroyed by it, right ?


No, that's not what I'm saying. Maybe that's why you're having such a hard time understanding this. I'm saying Star Trek has a wider VARIETY of technology and that IS an advantage.

You are simply assuming that ST has a wider variety of technology.
We have seen entities in the SW universe travelling through dimensions (Waru in "Chrystal Star"😉, we have seen biological engineering (the "Vagabound" in the Black Fleet trilogy, the Yuuzhan Vong in the NJO series), creation of artificial black holes (used as weapons), hyperspace travel (which is beyond the Warp drive), all kinds of superweapons (sheer power, artificial chain reaction, alchemic devices imbued with the force).


If it was that easy, that's exactly what Voyager would of done to it. The reason it was so hard to destroy is weapons passed right through it as if it wasn't there.

The point is that SW has weapons and abilities that affect all dimensions when used in one dimension only (black holes, force storms). So that relative low amount of Krenim ships would still get destroyed rather easily.


Yes, that's typically how it works.

No. It is not. That's like saying an armor that can absorb all kinds of mechanical energy will be destroyed by a bullet because it's engineer doesn't know bullets.


I'd like a reference for that. And 800 planets is nothing to scoff at. It's enough resources that they could be a couple weapon ships like Annorax's or go even go on a bigger scale.

The Galactic Republic alone has millions of member systems and not every planet in the SW universe belongs to the Republic (mentioned in TPM where Tatooine doesn't belong to it, KotoR where the outer rim was attacked for 20 years by the Mandalorians before the Republic and Revan got involved).


Put those 900k ships back in time a few million years and the tables turn.

This again is useless. What would put those ships back in time a few million years do ? They would have nothing to attack. This is not "IF the Krenim travel back in time and start destroying the SW universe than the ST universe will win". Because even if all Krenim travel back in time they won't be able to destroy the entire SW universe before the fight happens...


Voyager knew how to modify their shields to resist the attacks. All it really takes is the one empire. You get 2 or 3 time ships that can sustain their crew indefinitely and all you have to do is cruise around the past destroying planets for a few hundred years.

Have they shown the ability to destroy planets ? It's boring to argue like that...on the same level I could say that Waru could travel through space and time taking Nihilus (or unlimited amounts of ships, troops, force users) with him and impact on the ST universe to drain it empty and destroy it before the Krenim have evolved their Empire and still SW wins.


What I don't get is if one ship, or a small group of ships, can go back in time and erase all life supporting planets, why isn't that a win?

Because in turn the SW universe can do just the same to the ST universe even on a greater scale / more effective. So there is no point in arguing that. And even if the Krenim would be able to destroy the SW universe the YV are coming from a different Galaxy and would still pwn the entire ST universe. It always ends with ST getting owned badly...

thats a pressure rinser for a car...

A beeper...

The Tin Man....

And last but no least, a Toaster...

So much more advanced, eh Swanky?

lmao!

awesome, DE calvin!

Oh man, so much to reply to. Lordy, I have to split it up. It exceeds the 10,000 character limit.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
And the master of inproper analogies strikes again.

The scale may not be exactly right but is sort of what it would be like. A lot of large objects trying to fight one small one.

I'm so glad you're well-versed in SW lore. That just makes your decision all the more defensible. First off, the Death Star has more than just its major planet-destroying beam; it has turbolaser batteries, turrets, TIE fighter squadrons, etc. on top of that. The idea that the ST fleet could just "fly around the Death Star" and be okay is stupid.

The question was to dodge the laser and the sun and had nothing to do with all that crap.

Secondly, the ancient Sith could make stars go nova inside of a few minutes. The process if incredibly short and very devastating.

A few minutes is long enough to go to warp.

Uh, no. We're not arguing "Oh, random plot device X happened in ST, therefore that device can be used to defeat SW." That's not how you make a case for your side.

If you don't want to argue it, fine, but that doesn't stop me from using it. It is "all" after all.

You would have to prove that the plot device is repeatable, that it can exist in both universes (In other words, ST supporters are quick to say "Well, the Force wouldn't work in the ST universe", but then act like their own pseudophysics and science works just fine in SW universe. We call that hypocrisy)

If the technologies from both universes had to be sound in both universes, it'd likely just trap everyone on their planets of origin. The force is proven to have a radius on it. It's its own rules.

and how large this Krenim force really is, because I can provide proof for my side.

No clue really. I only used your figure as a throwaway number for my example where numbers aren't exactly important.

Alright. Sith Lords use battle meditation which works just fine and affects all ST races.

Since when?

And this is where you feed me some bullshit line about how the Borq/Q/Krenim/random Power ST Race is going to "know" how to just go back and time and make SW not happen and be able to perform it easily.[quote]
Well, I wouldn't say they would go back in time if they couldn't go back in time. It wouldn't be hard, but pretty boring. Annorax's ship was pretty slow, at only warp 6, but the nature of the ship sustained the crew's age for hundreds of years so they could keep plugging away.

[quote]Cuz yes, the real answer to ST ever beating SW universe would include the latter being in the Stone Age and even then I'm sure the red-shirts will pile up in the thousands.


Maybe if the crews get bored of sitting in their ships wiping planets out of time and start killing the cannon fodder character.

Oh, so heaven forbid I point out how ****ed ST ships are in combat with SW ships? Is this where the "give us twenty thousand years" Trekkie argument pops up? Please. Give me a break.

Don't put words in my mouth. I was pointing out how you were comparing your ships to the literal new kids on the block. In fact, nearly everyone here acts like Starfleet encompasses all of Star Trek.

And I'm sure the durability of Starfleet pajamas is going to defend real good against lightsabers, Sith swords, thermal detonators, and Insert Random Heavy Blaster Here.

I didn't say they would withstand anything stronger than a pasta stain. I clearly said it was a joke.

Are you deliberately missing the point here? THERE WILL BE NO DROIDS VERSUS STAR TREK WUSSIES IN THEIR UBER PAJAMAS FIGHTING SOME GROUND BATTLE AND THE TREKKIES ALL JUST MAGICALLY LOB EMP GRENADES AND WIN THE GREAT BATTLE.

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anyone from Star Trek was going to be fighting droids. I was pointing out the lack of Star Wars people using any kind of mass energy weapons against the droids.

Nazi Germany had a wider VARIETY of weapons, artillery, and whatnot in comparison to the Soviet Army, and yet the latter won because of their hm... OVERWHELMING NUMBERS AND FIREPOWER.

You don't see any time traveling nazis though.

You cannot argue to me that a phaser is better than a blaster, or that teleports which are easily defeated and only work on stationary beings beat out quick Imperial drop ships.

I never said anything about phasers or blasters, which aren't part of my stance, and since when to transporters only work on stationary targets? They wouldn't even be able to transport people off planets then.

You can't argue to me that the slowness of ST ships is an indication of variety and superiority and therefore, they -just win-.

My arguement has nothing to do withs speed.

And yet it had to reappear to target anything and the process was described as requiring precise calculations, etc. etc. Honestly? It's not feasible as a weapon, and they only had one anyways. Slave I has more destructive firepower than the Enterprise, and can strafe that thing once and it's dead.

To make time incursions perhaps but not to fire its weapons.

The Galactic Empire, also known as the New Order or Palpatine's New Order, was the Galactic government established by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine to replace the Galactic Republic.

It consisted of over one million member worlds and fifty million colonies, protectorates, and governorships.

Article with links and sources


Over a million worlds, not millions.

Wow. You're using my exaggerated figure and applying it to your argument? Can you prove that they have even five ships? Please try.

Again, just a throwaway number.

And yes, I imagine if this was ST universe versus prehistoric SW universe, ST would win. But apparently Trekkies have to change the perimeters of the fight to get a cheap victory.

That's what happens when you fight things that have time travel in them. A cheap win is a win none-the-less. I did call it laming after all.

SW ships enter ST space, jump into hyperspace, arrive above all the major planets (I mean, just one ISD can destroy the surface of a planet, and the Empire alone has 35,000 of them) with an average of ten ships per inhabited ST planet. Orbital bombardment. QED!

The difference is the Star Wars ships have to know where they're going while the time traveling party has all the time in the world to wander around.

Erm... you DO know that every time the Krenim "jumped time" they instead created and went into alternate timelines, right? I wouldn't even rightly consider that an option.

It created alternate timelines, superimposing them over "real" time. If it simply jumped into an alternate timeline it would travel between timelines and Voyager's temporal shielding wouldn't of had any effect on it.

Can you say that I beat Bruce Lee in combat if I went into another timeline and killed him as a baby?

You could rightfully say you killed him but not in combat. Sort of like how I'm not claiming a combat victory.

Not really. It's A ) changing the perimeters of the fight (By taking one faction of ST and having it versus prehistoric/preflight SW universe) and B ) incorrect, since it's stated on the Trek wikicities and other sources that every time the Krenim or others time jump, they split into alternate timelines.

The thread includes all of Star Trek and that includes the time travel capabilities of at least three different races.

So... anyone have any experience with guitars? I'm looking into buying one.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Size doesn't matter in terms of the SW universe.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say size mattered, I was mentioning how awkward it would be having so many ships trying to fight something as small as one person.

"The other side of the Death Star" ? You know the Empire has tree of them, right ? So I wonder how they would "fly to the other side".

They would simply fly to the other side to not get targeted by the laser. If you read the question, it asks how the Star Trek ships would dodge "a" planet destroying laser and a sun. Nothing else was mentioned.

Are there any ships in the ST universe that are "in development" for 25,000 years ? The point is that even the smallest SW vessels are able to defeat the largest battleships we have seen in the ST universe in seconds.

I couldn't give you a solid answer on that one. I don't recall any stunningly old races of space fairing people off hand that have a semblance of a back story. I do know that Starfleet is relatively new to space travel.

Ridiculous statement. The ST vs SW site takes a little error displayed in ROTJ (wow...armor made of plastic looks like armor made of plastic when - in the SW universe - it's craftet out of metal)

Uhhh... I said it was a joke. I don't care that 2 1/2 teddy bears pierced military armor with wooden arrows.

They have EMP and ion weapons in the SW universe to disable droids. As it seems the droids weren't vunerable to this kind of attacks otherwise they would have been destroyed by it, right?

I thought that might be the case but it's confusing because the droids are also controlled remotely and emp shielding would wreck havoc on any kind of communication system.

You are simply assuming that ST has a wider variety of technology.
We have seen entities in the SW universe travelling through dimensions (Waru in "Chrystal Star"😉, we have seen biological engineering (the "Vagabound" in the Black Fleet trilogy, the Yuuzhan Vong in the NJO series), creation of artificial black holes (used as weapons), hyperspace travel (which is beyond the Warp drive), all kinds of superweapons (sheer power, artificial chain reaction, alchemic devices imbued with the force).

Hmm, that is impressive but doesn't affect the time travel attack.

The point is that SW has weapons and abilities that affect all dimensions when used in one dimension only (black holes, force storms). So that relative low amount of Krenim ships would still get destroyed rather easily.

Really? Because when he was talking about how Voyager could of destroyed the ship easily if he didn't have its time enhancements then a star destroyer could do better, I thought he was talking about a star destroyer shooting through time with its turbolasers.

No. It is not. That's like saying an armor that can absorb all kinds of mechanical energy will be destroyed by a bullet because it's engineer doesn't know bullets.

Not really. A bullet is just a projectile. It's just like an arrow or a rock. Temporal weapons cause a different kind of damage than turbolasers or proton torpedos.

This again is useless. What would put those ships back in time a few million years do ? They would have nothing to attack. This is not "IF the Krenim travel back in time and start destroying the SW universe than the ST universe will win". Because even if all Krenim travel back in time they won't be able to destroy the entire SW universe before the fight happens...

If they went back and destroyed the planets, the fight would never happen. The destruction of their planets would of already occurred in the present.

Have they shown the ability to destroy planets ?

Not so much physically destroy them but they, Annorax's ship at least, could just erase it.

It's boring to argue like that...on the same level I could say that Waru could travel through space and time taking Nihilus (or unlimited amounts of ships, troops, force users) with him and impact on the ST universe to drain it empty and destroy it before the Krenim have evolved their Empire and still SW wins.

I know it's boring but that's the way I felt like arguing when I started again. The very concept of this thread is starting to depress me and I wish I wasn't compelled to keep participating in it.

Because in turn the SW universe can do just the same to the ST universe even on a greater scale / more effective. So there is no point in arguing that. And even if the Krenim would be able to destroy the SW universe the YV are coming from a different Galaxy and would still pwn the entire ST universe. It always ends with ST getting owned badly...

Then it sounds like there'd be a good "old fashioned" temporal cold war like what was apparently shown in Enterprise. Didn't really keep up with that series too much though even though Scott Bakula is awesome.

Originally posted by DE Calvin

A beeper...

Did they even have beepers back in the 60's?

what does it look like?

Looks like the hand mic of an intercom system with some extra buttons glued to it and a make-up case lid attached to it.

(beeper).

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Don't put words in my mouth. ST wins cuz I said so, and cuz I don't bother to look at figures nor provide my own. Apparently I say vague things and when people take it as my stance, I say "Don't put words in my mouth". Too bad I just can't come out and have a clear and supported stance, but instead just keep playing this "temporal weapons r teh pwnz00rs" line like it matters. I am a total Trekkie fanboy.

Yeah, I expected that.

Kirk was a notorious drug dealer back then.

I was going to make a joke involving the mobile phones that came attached to 40lbs briefcases but I couldn't find a picture of one.

Originally posted by Dark Aristokrat
I have reading problems

Alls well that ends well.

You mean the thing they used in Star Trek?

Originally posted by DE Calvin
You mean the thing they used in Star Trek?

Yes, they also flew around space in '67 Novas and got their ass kicked by Red Forman for getting home late.

Coincidently, the same guy who played Annorax.

'67 NOVAs..HAHAHAHA...that is like a machine god compared to what they flew around in..a zepplin with a dish instead off a bag...

Originally posted by DE Calvin
'67 NOVAs..HAHAHAHA...that is like a machine god compared to what they flew around in..a zepplin with a dish instead off a bag...

No way, this was the first Earth star ship.

Really I am not even sure if this is stil a topic up for debate, but if it is, go to this site: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/

it should clarify several things and show how badly SW pwns ST

Fourth time that's been posted now.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Fourth time that's been posted now.

It's also the fourth time you've provided nothing against it.

Originally posted by Lord Septimus
It's also the fourth time you've provided nothing against it.

Nothing in my stance relates to anything on that site.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Nothing in my stance relates to anything on that site.

Besides the fact that a Standard Fighter ship could destroy one of the ships regarded as one of the greater powerful ones.

Besides the fact that almost all the technology mentioned there outclasses Star Trek technology.