Damn, all the Trekkie fanboys who've posted here so far are idiots. Actually who even watches ST? Star Wars would win no questions asked. And yes Swanky, speed was part of your debate, back when you were debating with Fishy. You've obviously lost and you are too hardheaded to admit it. Trek's ships would not be able to get behind the Death Star before it fired. ST's ships are too slow to outmanuver the nimble Tie Interceptors or A wings. And now I see the Borg aren't part of your arguement , because their boarding parties (if they could even get onto a SW ship) will not be able to kill the millions of people who are on the Death Star. And about Trek's writing, it's just stupid why would some all powerful being (exaggerated) like Q's son start war where people die and end it with the snap of a finger? You have to admit that some ST chars aren't that smart. I know writing doesn't have anything to do with it so I'll get back to the subject. The only reason Vong are devoid of the force is not really because they are from a different galaxy, it's really because the Vong are a different species devoid of the force, like the Miraluka who are all born force sensitive but opposite.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
That's nonsensical beyond nonsensical. Their shots clearly don't travel anywhere near light-speed in the movies. Do you have references that say they do?
And you are uninformed beyond uninformed. You can see that the effects of turbolaser fire exceed the "nice colored rays of light" so what you see isn't the fire from the turbolasers but just some byproduct of it. References ? Movie evidence...
Not billions at once, clearly. They'd have to be incredibly packed to be one unified firing squad.
Yeah. Billions at once. Because "billion to one" might be the number in which SW ships outnumber the ST ships. It's so nice having 50,000 years of interplanetary travel history and starfighters with enough firepower to destroy ST ships easily...
Transwarp is a generic term for faster than warp travel. Slipstream and wormhole travel are considered transwarp. Ships with transwarp drives may work in a variety of ways but the borg's work by creating a conduit to travel through via subspace. The transwarp hub destroyed in endgame wasn't really gone into but their sensors read it as a bunch of wormholes. But it's not really important.
Have you ever seen wormholes outside the ST universe ? And the borg use the natural conduits. It's even mentioned that only 6 of those conduits exists which would be quite useless if every borg ship can create an artificial one.
Then why is/was the force just magic tricks and voodoo to them? Why does the force not flow through them? Why did the jedi council apparently send out a team to open the "force bubble" surrounding the galaxy in NJO?
In ANH Han Solo says that the force is just "magic tricks" and he refuses to believe that it even exists. That's how it appears to every non force-user since they can't understand it.
There were at least two force users among the Vong so since when does the force generally not flow through them ?
And the Jedi Council send a team to open a "force bubble" ? Where was this mentioned ?
Did it save the lives of the armies of the wicked? Did it save the lives of those who use its power for their own corrupt reasons? When did it do such a thing?
We were talking about your little scenario and in this case the force would have to protect the entire SW Galaxy and not "some selected beings who are good". So it would basically try to save itself from getting exterminated (which might be possible if all life in the SW Galaxy is eterminated). And now please give me the name of one being having a "will" and no "urge to live".
Originally posted by DarthBanevv
And yes Swanky, speed was part of your debate, back when you were debating with Fishy.
And about Trek's writing, it's just stupid why would some all powerful being (exaggerated) like Q's son start war where people die and end it with the snap of a finger? You have to admit that some ST chars aren't that smart.
The idea is the Q have been everywhere and done everything so they get bored. Clearly they're not *all* powerful. They're not "God". But they are mindbogglingly powerful, pretty much doing whatever they want unless another Q stops them.
Originally posted by Borbarad
And you are uninformed beyond uninformed. You can [b]see that the effects of turbolaser fire exceed the "nice colored rays of light" so what you see isn't the fire from the turbolasers but just some byproduct of it. References ? Movie evidence...[/b]
Yeah. Billions at once.
Attack forces are usually set up in waves are they not?
Have you ever seen wormholes outside the ST universe?
If you mean have I ever shook the hand of a wormhole in real life? No, but they're in nearly every sci-fi... anything. Farscape, Carl Sagan's Contact, the entire basis of Stargate and Sliders. I'm just pulling these off the "wormholes in fiction" section of the wiki entry of "wormhole".
And the borg use the natural conduits. It's even mentioned that only 6 of those conduits exists which would be quite useless if every borg ship can create an artificial one.
If you look at the technology of borg ships on the same site, you see it has the transwarp equipment listed there, including the coil that generates artificial conduits. The benefit of having the hub is it's faster to just hop in a tunnel then take off from there, saves energy for the ships, ships that have had its transwarp compromised for whatever reason can use it, ships without transwarp that have been captured can be transported to be gutted for technology or cannibalized for materials elsewhere, or you could probably even send messages through them.
There were at least two force users among the Vong so since when does the force generally not flow through them ?
That was the whole reason for the force not working on them was it not? If the force flowed through them, they'd be exactly like every other race in the native star wars galaxy.
"And the Jedi Council send a team to open a "force bubble" ? Where was this mentioned ?[/b][/quote]
The "Outbound Project", if it wasn't to open a force bubble, what was it for?
We were talking about your little scenario and in this case the force would have to protect the entire SW Galaxy and not "some selected beings who are good". So it would basically try to save itself from getting exterminated (which might be possible if all life in the SW Galaxy is eterminated).
The forces you keep mentioning are the forces of the empire. The forces of evil. Regardless, they wouldn't necessarily have to kill *every* living thing to win, just a bunch. So it comes down to manipulating time against the force maybe intervening? Until it does, we can't say that it will. And if it has, when?
And now please give me the name of one being having a "will" and no "urge to live".
Starfish. And Padme, you can't tell me you didn't see that one coming.
I have to correct you on this.
The "Outbound Project", if it wasn't to open a force bubble, what was it for?
First, it was Outbound Flight. Second, the intent was to leave the galaxy and explore/colonize another one. The Force had little to nothing to do with it, it was a Republic project that included Jedi.
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Then clearly whoever was aiming at the falcon with "near lightspeed" weapons were either A) Blind, or B) An idiot. If the shots fired even half the speed of light, it would take about 7 ten thousandths of a second for the bolt to hit at 100km, which is just a throwaway distance. I don't know how far the falcon was but it was pretty close.
You still seem to think that the Falcon was a stationary target and it didn't get hit.
a)
The Falcon has a sublight acceleration that is above 3500G and was piloted by one of the best pilots in the SW universe. Assuming that people or computers still have a small reaction time it is clearly able to "dodge" shots to a certain extend.
b)
We can see that the Falcon was hit for multiple times and it only survived because of shielding technology.
Attack forces are usually set up in waves are they not?
Watch ROTJ or the CW cartoons and you can see what "waves" of Starfighters are. The Empire's stardestroyers alone (25,000) carry 1,8 million starfighters, add CIS Vulture droids, Jedi starfighters, YV fighters, Sith starfighters, Rakatan starfighters, Rebellion starfighters. Then put the capital ships on top of that. That are trillions of ships. So even IF they set up attack waves it would be billions per wave.
Not that this would even matter. I guess a single shot from Centerpoint Station (capable of throwing stars through hyperspace) should be enough to deal with the ST fleets.
That was the whole reason for the force not working on them was it not? If the force flowed through them, they'd be exactly like every other race in the native star wars galaxy.
Their homeworld (a living planet to Zonama Sekot) stripped the Vong from being able to touch the force thousands of years ago so it clearly existed in their Galaxy before that happened. Onimi who was still a YV had a connection to the force. So what ?
The "Outbound Project", if it wasn't to open a force bubble, what was it for?
The "Outbound Flight Project" was a project to explore the outer regions and go beyond the boarders of the SW Galaxy. That didn't have anything to do with "piercing a force bubble". And the project was destroyed by Thrawn decades before the NJO series.
The forces you keep mentioning are the forces of the empire. The forces of evil. Regardless, they wouldn't necessarily have to kill *every* living thing to win, just a bunch. So it comes down to manipulating time against the force maybe intervening? Until it does, we can't say that it will. And if it has, when?
Where was I talking about the "forces of evil" ? Every single force in the SW Galaxy would be able to obliterate ST on it's own. No matter if it's the Empire, the New Republic, the Old Republic, the Rebel Alliance, the Hapes Consortium, the Hutts, the Yuuzhan Vong and so on...
And it's necessary to kill every living thing because otherwise the force still exists and as I said: It can "take over" every living being to destroy ST.
Starfish. And Padme, you can't tell me you didn't see that one coming.
Wooohooo...now you just have to proof that an energy field which is responsible for every living thing in the SW universe doesn't have a will to live.
Originally posted by Borbarad
You still seem to think that the Falcon was a stationary target and it didn't get hit.a)
The Falcon has a sublight acceleration that is above 3500G and was piloted by one of the best pilots in the SW universe. Assuming that people or computers still have a small reaction time it is clearly able to "dodge" shots to a certain extend.
Watch ROTJ or the CW cartoons and you can see what "waves" of Starfighters are. The Empire's stardestroyers alone (25,000) carry 1,8 million starfighters, add CIS Vulture droids, Jedi starfighters, YV fighters, Sith starfighters, Rakatan starfighters, Rebellion starfighters. Then put the capital ships on top of that. That are trillions of ships. So even IF they set up attack waves it would be billions per wave.
Since we were talking about star destroyers, I assumed we were talking about star destroyers.
Their homeworld (a living planet to Zonama Sekot) stripped the Vong from being able to touch the force thousands of years ago so it clearly existed in their Galaxy before that happened. Onimi who was still a YV had a connection to the force. So what?
From what I'm reading, Onimi seems to of grafted yammosk brain onto his brain and yammosks are force sensitive? It doesn't sound surprising since they biologically engineer their weapons to do certain things. All this biological force sensitivity makes me wonder if some kind of virus can just ravage the force users.
And it's necessary to kill every living thing because otherwise the force still exists and as I said: It can "take over" every living being to destroy ST.
Having to fight the force itself to win the battle is ridiculous. You've shown no proof that it'd suddenly start fighting in the first place.
Wooohooo...now you just have to proof that an energy field which is responsible for every living thing in the SW universe doesn't have a will to live.
You're the one saying the force is going to kip up and start battling the Star Trek forces so you have to prove it will.