The best you can say about 8472 is that they can destroy a planet without much problem. It only took 9 of them linking together to destroy a planet, and there were hundreds, maybe even thousands coming out of fluidic space.
-edit-
And the ejecta flew out from the planet fast enough to destroy any and all ships that were within range.
Sure, someone correct me if I'm wrong
chiss - best damn fighter pilots in the universe, also source race of Grand admiral Thrawn.
Si-Ruuk - Reptilian species with an entechment technology, they enslave other races and "entech" them. Using their life energies to power their ships and vehicles. Kind of like turning them into droid slaves.
Yuuzahn Vong - Humaniod Species from another Galaxy appeared in NJO. Exist outside the Normal Jedi perception of the Force. Hate all normal technology with a passion. Technology based on bioengineering and artificially created black wholes, Even their interstellar ships.
Well, did I leave anything out guys?
I'd rather lett a trekkie post about 8472, I saw a couple of those episodes, but it's been awhile.
Originally posted by DarkLord_981
The best you can say about 8472 is that they can destroy a planet without much problem. It only took 9 of them linking together to destroy a planet, and there were hundreds, maybe even thousands coming out of fluidic space.-edit-
And the ejecta flew out from the planet fast enough to destroy any and all ships that were within range.
So Both sides have what amounts to the death star. I still say it really comes down to strategy and tactics, and I still don't see anyone on the ST side to beat Grand Admiral Thrawn on those counts.
War is really a great equalizer of technology, by the end of the war both sides would have some optimum blend of both. Ex: Germany had better tech at the beginning of WWII but by the end the allies had pretty much caught up.
I've said it before: ST doesn't have anything to compare to most of the characters in SW. It of course has many, many admirals and captains, perhaps more admirals than SW, but they aren't as good. The captains don't command ships with tens of thousands of people on them, and they don't command ships that are kilometers long. As well, admirals have fewer ships under their command. ST commanders would probably be better in skirmishes of maybe a dozen ships or so, but most battles in ST vs SW would have thousands of ships involved.
The only thing I can think of is the Borg. They have the ability to have a few hundred thousand vessels attack in PERFECT unison. Of course, they aren't very good strategizers, just good coordinators.
Originally posted by DarkLord_981
I've said it before: ST doesn't have anything to compare to most of the characters in SW. It of course has many, many admirals and captains, perhaps more admirals than SW, but they aren't as good. The captains don't command ships with tens of thousands of people on them, and they don't command ships that are kilometers long. As well, admirals have fewer ships under their command. ST commanders would probably be better in skirmishes of maybe a dozen ships or so, but most battles in ST vs SW would have thousands of ships involved.The only thing I can think of is the Borg. They have the ability to have a few hundred thousand vessels attack in PERFECT unison. Of course, they aren't very good strategizers, just good coordinators.
Yeah... I addressed that a few pages back... They both have fleet commanders but their versions of fleet combat are very different... let me elaborate again...
SW... BIG massive ships with almost no manuverability move in to broadside other big massive capital ships. The skill involved is more in fleet placement and not being out flanked...
ST... Smaller faster more manuverable ships flying in and out of eachother at rappid speeds. Ships with onmidirectional weapons that can hit in a 360 degree around the ships. The skill involved is faster thinking due to the high speeds while coordinating with the fleet on a grand scale.
Acutally when I put it that way, it really looks as if the ST Captains are more capable due to the faster pace of big ship combat in the ST verse...
Originally posted by docb77
Sure, someone correct me if I'm wrongchiss - best damn fighter pilots in the universe, also source race of Grand admiral Thrawn.
Thats one big difference between the two verses... SW focuses a lot on small fighter combat. While we know that ST has small one and two man fighters there is no focus on them so we dont know how good any of the pilots are. But I do admit, SW pilots rock... Wedge, Luke, Han, Chriss... the list goes on.
Originally posted by docb77
Si-Ruuk - Reptilian species with an entechment technology, they enslave other races and "entech" them. Using their life energies to power their ships and vehicles. Kind of like turning them into droid slaves.
Well the Borg do the same... but the Borg are pretty mindless when it comes to worldly things like women... so here I bring in the Orian Slave Girls... any male with genital organs is driven wild by their pheramones.
Originally posted by docb77
Yuuzahn Vong - Humaniod Species from another Galaxy appeared in NJO. Exist outside the Normal Jedi perception of the Force. Hate all normal technology with a passion. Technology based on bioengineering and artificially created black wholes, Even their interstellar ships. .
While the Klingons do not focus on organic tech... I think the races would be a good match physically.
Well, did I leave anything out guys?
Originally posted by docb77
I'd rather lett a trekkie post about 8472, I saw a couple of those episodes, but it's been awhile.
I dont know if I should really call myself a trekkie cause I like SW just was much... and I really only seen a few episodes of the Voyager seires.
Originally posted by TRSundown
but the Borg are pretty mindless when it comes to worldly things like women... so here I bring in the Orian Slave Girls... any male with genital organs is driven wild by their pheramones.
SW has them there too a species called falleen and both the male and females emit powerful pheremones. The main falleen I can think of is Prince Xizor of the Black Sun syndicate.
Originally posted by TRSundown
ST... Smaller faster more manuverable ships flying in and out of eachother at rappid speeds. Ships with onmidirectional weapons that can hit in a 360 degree around the ships. The skill involved is faster thinking due to the high speeds while coordinating with the fleet on a grand scale.Acutally when I put it that way, it really looks as if the ST Captains are more capable due to the faster pace of big ship combat in the ST verse...
ST ships may be faster than SW capital ships during battle, but any ship of any size I've ever seen on ST is slow as molasses compared to SW fighters. It seems like their idea of evasive manuevers is moving slowly to the left or right. Meanwhile SW fighters pull all kinds of stunts. Of course even they don't use the momentum as well as they could. I think the best example of that I've seen is Battlestar Galactica where they spin around and fire backwards while their momentum still carries them forward.
As to the previous comment about Riker...
It was mentioned in several episodes of TNG that he was one of the best (if not the best) pilots on the Enterprise, and seeing as that was the Federation flagship, it would make sense that it would have the best officers in the fleet assigned to it. However, I'd say that Tom Paris was a much better pilot than Riker, and with regards to the method of controlling the ship, I'd say that using a flat touchscreen to enter commands for movements would be much more difficult than using a joystick or yoke that would provide some kind of tactile feedback to the pilot.
I notice there were no more takers on the Borg vs the Death Star after I clarified a few points...
Ah come on, the borg thing again? They're really just an unknown quantity. We don't know if they'd be able to puncture Stormtrooper armor. We know that they can adapt to federation energy weapons, but it looks like not to species 8472 weapons. so weather they could adapt to lightsabers, turbolasers, etc is just a big unknown. What's the maximum energy level their adaptable shields can deflect/absorb? We just don't know, but I'm guessing that the Death star at least is above that, if not heavy turbolasers, etc.
Then again comparative strengths of both federation and empire are still kind of in the gray area, just depends on where you get your numbers. I like stardestroyer.net for that.
Originally posted by docb77
Ah come on, the borg thing again? They're really just an unknown quantity.
Originally posted by docb77
Ah come on, the borg thing again? They're really just an unknown quantity. We don't know if they'd be able to puncture Stormtrooper armor.
Originally posted by docb77
We know that they can adapt to federation energy weapons, but it looks like not to species 8472 weapons. so weather they could adapt to lightsabers, turbolasers, etc is just a big unknown.
Originally posted by docb77
What's the maximum energy level their adaptable shields can deflect/absorb? We just don't know, but I'm guessing that the Death star at least is above that, if not heavy turbolasers, etc.
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Unknown quantity? There's plenty of information available about the Borg
I meant in comparison with SW tech
Originally posted by Darth Vious
It's been said that the Borg assimilation talons can puncture any known substance (I think including forcefields) StormTrooper armor seems unable to withstand blaster fire, let alone something reputed to be able to puncture any substance...
right known substance, the plasteel from SW would be an unknown in ST.
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Federation weapons (as with lightsabers) are man-made energy dischages at specified frequencies. Species 8472 are a more unknown quantity as their ships and weapons seemed more organic in nature, so it's possible there could be a more random fluctuation to the output than a phaser (or lightsaber)
Again we don't know the tech involved in a lightsaber or if it even has a "frequency". It is entirely possible that it could go through their forcefield as easily as picards holographic bullets did in the holodeck. With respect to the Borg, SW is as much unknown as 8472 if not more so since they've never actually been tested against each other.
Originally posted by Darth Vious
I don't know the level that Borg shields could absorb, and yes, a turbo laser might well be able to punch through their shields. However, I seriously doubt a lightsaber would be capable of getting through a Borg shield once they had adapted to the frequency of its blade. If they had that amount of power, they would require a much larger source of power than a hand-held unit. (not forgetting the kind of destructive power a Federation phaser can have on maximum setting as comparable hand held weaponry)
Again we don't have any evidence that lightsabers have a frequency. Nor must we assume a large power source to power them if they were stronger. Remember that SW tech has had tens of thousands of years to perfect miniaturization.
Originally posted by docb77
I meant in comparison with SW tech
Originally posted by docb77
right known substance, the plasteel from SW would be an unknown in ST.
Originally posted by docb77
Again we don't know the tech involved in a lightsaber or if it even has a "frequency". It is entirely possible that it could go through their forcefield as easily as picards holographic bullets did in the holodeck. With respect to the Borg, SW is as much unknown as 8472 if not more so since they've never actually been tested against each other.
Originally posted by docb77
Again we don't have any evidence that lightsabers have a frequency. Nor must we assume a large power source to power them if they were stronger. Remember that SW tech has had tens of thousands of years to perfect miniaturization.
Hey, all I'm saying is that until a Star Destroyer actually fires on a ST ship whether borg or federation it's up in the air.
I actually do think the shields would stop the lightsaber, just because SW shields always seem too, but it's still an unknown. and we've still got sith swords if we're using the entire EU
Damn comparing SW and ST whould be almost inpossible but we can say 1 thing for sure, in persnonal combat a Sith lord like Darth Revan Or Darth Vader, ST whould be completly Defensless againt the force, i mean what whouldt they possible do against force lightning or some other sith power. But ship to ship whouldt be hard aldo SW got powerfull ships and spacestations they can draw uppon, Deathstar, Suncrusher, Star fordge to create and unlimmited amount of ships and if they can use the star fordge to make SD's and ISD's.No 1 can say for certain what happens then
Originally posted by docb77
SW has them there too a species called falleen and both the male and females emit powerful pheremones. The main falleen I can think of is Prince Xizor of the Black Sun syndicate.ST ships may be faster than SW capital ships during battle, but any ship of any size I've ever seen on ST is slow as molasses compared to SW fighters. It seems like their idea of evasive manuevers is moving slowly to the left or right. Meanwhile SW fighters pull all kinds of stunts. Of course even they don't use the momentum as well as they could. I think the best example of that I've seen is Battlestar Galactica where they spin around and fire backwards while their momentum still carries them forward.
Yeah but we are talking about FLEET COMMAND SKILLS... not fighter pilot skills... Your right... per scale the SW fighters can fly circles around the ST Ships... and ST ships can fly cricles around SW capital ships...
Keep in mind... when have you seen a fighter pilot coordinating a fleet scale attack? Lando, while piloting the falcon in ROTJ acted as Ackabars eyes on the battle field and assisted Ackabar but was not the fleet commander...
So take the fighters out cause yes... they out manuver the ST ships.
Now go back and look at my assesment...
SW... BIG massive ships (not including fighters cuase we are talking about fleet command) with almost no manuverability move in to broadside other big massive capital ships. The skill involved is more in fleet placement and not being out flanked...
ST... Smaller faster more manuverable ships flying in and out of eachother at rappid speeds. Ships with onmidirectional weapons that can hit in a 360 degree around the ships. The skill involved is faster thinking due to the high speeds while coordinating with the fleet on a grand scale.
Originally posted by Darth Vious
As to the previous comment about Riker...
It was mentioned in several episodes of TNG that he was one of the best (if not the best) pilots on the Enterprise, and seeing as that was the Federation flagship, it would make sense that it would have the best officers in the fleet assigned to it. However, I'd say that Tom Paris was a much better pilot than Riker, and with regards to the method of controlling the ship, I'd say that using a flat touchscreen to enter commands for movements would be much more difficult than using a joystick or yoke that would provide some kind of tactile feedback to the pilot.
I notice there were no more takers on the Borg vs the Death Star after I clarified a few points...
Your right... on both acounts...
ST TNG timeline takes place before Voyager timeline... there is some overlap but at the time, Riker was hailed to be one of the best pilots... ten years down the road Tom Paris gets his commission and becomes one of the best pilots.
Plus we dont get to see them in their "pilot" environment. How often do we see Riker hop into a fighter class shuttle and go zooming through an astroid field?
As far as the Borg vs. Death Star... you should go back and read my stories based on this thread... I have one example of how the Borg would deal with a SD.
Sorry for the tripple posts...
I believe that there is info out there about how lightsabers work... There are several different types of crystals that give each "color" its own unique characteristics... I also remember reading somewhere that there are three different power sources for light sabers... Electrical, Force Powered, and one other...
But this is all from memory which I admit is not very good... Lets go google it!!!!...
here's a SW centric view of ST vs the borg.
http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/usvsd/borgs/nuborg.html
This guy goes a lot further than I do. I only say that the questions aren't answered. He give's a very slanted view, but if you accept all the technical manuels, etc; he'd probably be right.