Dark Phoenix vs Scarlet Witch

WhiteWitchKing ... as always stomping the fanboy fallacies to the ground. 👆

Anyway, as far as the thread is concerned:

Wanda wins in a horrific stomp!

In fact, via a single thought ... "no more Phoenix" ... win. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I can show u a scan that shows the Phoenix Force as the sentient energies of the Big Bang:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The Phoenix Force after the death of the previous multiverse was reset by the M'kraan crystal as the formless energies of the Big Bang before it awoke to reality again.

No where in that scan does it even allude to the idea that the PF is the Big Bang,
or anything even remotely resembling it.

The PF was born from the Big Bang (that's what the scan depicts)
just like ALL the other abstracts.

"this is HOW I came into being" ... I mean, who falls for this shit?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The Phoenix avatar is a representation of this creation power, a flame from the Big Bang:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

What does that say about the Phoenix Force itself?

Tell em Reed! The Phoenix Force is one and the same as the Big Bang.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

All that exists in a reality is derived from the energies of the Phoenix Force. TOAA's creation power.

Or better yet, 6 freakin heroes (one being Rogue)
tired/battered can stalemate the PF at optimal conditions.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I'll tell you what. Can you now show me scans of LT demonstrating hes the supreme power in existence. Not just statements, actual feats.

Originally posted by Mr Master
WhiteWitchKing ... as always stomping the fanboy fallacies to the ground. 👆

Anyway, as far as the thread is concerned:

Wanda wins in a horrific stomp!

In fact, via a single thought ... "no more Phoenix" ... win. 🙂

😆

False!

No where in that scan does it even allude to the idea that the PF is the Big Bang,
or anything even remotely resembling it.

The PF was born from the Big Bang (that's what the scan depicts)
just like ALL the other abstracts.

"this is HOW I came into being" ... I mean, who falls for this shit?

"creation power" my nargas ... the PF has never even created a Galaxy.

You mean, "tell em 'writer' with his head up his nargas concerning Marvel cosmological facts.

facepalm .. and yet a simple planetary emp can blow it up into BILLIONS of pieces.

Or better yet, 6 freakin heroes (one being Rogue)
tired/battered can stalemate the PF at optimal conditions.

Do me favor, can you show me any Phoenix or the Force itself creating a Universe?
I'll tell ya what, let's see it, or one of it's avatars creating a Galaxy,
no?
Well then, what about a Star?
No?
Damn, I would say a Planet, but Phoenid did once re-create a Planet,
sure it was a 'What If' but hey, I guess you gotta get it however it comes.

All bravado, complete lack of substance.

As ever Mr Master youre just not good enough im afraid. 😬

Your post doesn't necessitate a proper rebuttal due to you recycling the same points i've decimated over the years, the very same ones WWK failed with in this thread. 🙁

Nice of you to make an appearance as ineffectual as it was.

Enjoy your weekend 🙂

It's really uncesseray to go at it again.
It would be the 100th time going around the circle with completely same things and arguments.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It's really uncesseray to go at it again.
It would be the 100th time going around the circle with completely same things and arguments.

👆

Thank you.

As egotistical as i can be(its just for jokes 😱 )

Its quite clear that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation, the Big Bang turned sentient. Thats the role bestowed on it by TOAA.

You have a visualization of the Big Bang event and the Phoenix Force being its energies that reawakened to reality(after the destruction of the previous multiverse)

You have Reed stating the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation, the Big Bang.

You have the Phoenix Force calling itself the sum and substance of all life and the mother of the stars.

You have Kubik calling the Phoenix Force the power behind the stars(which the Big Bang is and equating Dark Phoenix to an avatar of this Force.

You have Roma, Death and the Watcher claiming that without the Force there would be a void(further proving it is the Big Bang)

You have accounts from Galactus and LT saying that The Big Bang is the source of all energy and matter in reality(Excalibur and Quasar issues)

You have Dr Strange saying the same thing and stating that even ambient mystical energies derives from the stars.

The evidence is clear. There are visual depictions and accounts from reputable characters(cosmics, the sorcerer supreme and a genius) that the Big Bang is all there is the sum and substance of all there is within reality and that that is what the Phoenix Force is)

Furthermore you have multiple accounts stating clear as day that the Firebird is just an avatar, NOT the totality.

That the hosts contain just a representation of the Force an avatar, NOT the totality.

And yet as these are still parts of the Force everything avatars do is referenced under the Phoenix Force bio and rightly so. However anyone who has read the stories in question know that these stories featured avatars, or in some cases just fragments of the Force and as other stories have shown there can be multiple avatars acting simultaneously. With that in mind a small avatar of the Force getting used as a ships energy source means nothing, distracted hosts getting killed means nothing to the overall Force and its status. Its essence cant be destroyed whatever is done to it, it can be fragmented repeatedly, used as energy source and its still intact.

The Force in its totality has never been shown, or demeaned on panel so ow showings by avatars and fragments of its self don't diminish its status. Especially when such avatars have top tier feats of durability and energy manipulation beyond most comic book characters.

The argument doesnt need to be recycled, youre 100% correct Xp. There is no new evidence on either side to make new points. Just existing evidence which deems the Force the energies of creation, the multiversal nexus of psionic energy and one of the most powerful and feared entities in existence. 🙂

Originally posted by zopzop

Anthromorpho : Our dimension contains reflections of every manifestation we have ever done
Quasar : Can you point us to a recent manifestation body of Eternity

They were all M-bodies!

No you fanboy! He's talking about Eternity.

Anthromorpho: Eternity is so transfinite that there are numerous manifestations of him here.
Anthromorpho : Our dimension contains reflections of every manifestation we have ever done
Quasar : Can you point us to a recent manifestation body of Eternity.

And if you want to argue he was talking about everyone in the court, then LT using an M-body too. Because we don't see Warlock in the trial at all. He's a physical with the Infinity Gauntlet. That's why he isn't there in the trial in Quasar because he never took an M-body and hence no reflection.

So in Warlock and the Infinity Watch 1, an M-body of LT stopped what no body that court could and shocked an IG user. Said LT M-body passed judgement despite Warlock's threats. Both knew the 616 would've been destroyed had Warlock decided to fight the LT M-Body and Warlock blinked - backing down.

So according to you, LT's mere M-body was more than sufficient in handling the IG from Warlock. LMAO!!!

They went from being creators of their respective realities, then only their architects, then merely their guardians!

This still assumes he had their actuality in his hands and not representations.[/b]

WTF do you think architects do? You think a tree is going to be inside into a house? lol And hold up, mere guardians? You just put a handbook over that actual comic source and called that a retcon. Hahaha, keep trying but it changes nothing. Handbooks don't retcon anything at all.

They've been retconned at least twice so far that I know of. So according to your logic, current Beyonder is > all abstracts and powers in the MU because pre-retcon Beyonder owned them all.

So according to your logic, handbooks can retcon actual comics? Wait till everyone on this board here's about this. I thought you we ignorant but this is just plain stupid. Handbooks don't retcon shit!

Yes nothing like him. We've seen him blow up a star (his highest on panel feat), ran from Korvac and gotten blown up by Reed.

Yeah, according to you, we've seen an M-body of LT dismiss an IG attack, reversed it, passed judgment, and willing to fight for the Gauntlet despite the destruction of the 616 and the one to blink was the IG user. And as for Reed, Reed would piss on the Phoenix Force because all it takes is a planetary EMP please don't pretend like that wouldn't happen to the PF.

No Giruad got knocked back by Dual Dormammu. That's it. That wasn't one Dormammu but two, the one from 616 + the one from the Guradians reality. Giruad wasn't KOed or even damaged. Just knocked back by a blast.

lol. And so he came back to defeat Dormammu because he was strongest one right? Oh wait, he and the other guardians channeled their powers into Dr. Strange to attack only for Dormammu to turn it back and kill Strange. lol It was yet another Sorcerror Supreme and his eye of Agamotto that defeated Dormammu. Giraud couldn't do jack.

When Eternity was "dying" (stated on panel by Eternity himself), Mainframe aka Vision asked who he should summon to help him. The Celestials or maybe the LT? He said no, his ONLY hope was the PF. This is all on panel.

You mean that very same issue where at the end Dormammu shows up and the next arc is about how Dormammu stomped everyone including Giraud? Eternity stating all and then Giraud fails to defeat Dormammu even with the back up of the GOTG and Strange proves otherwise.

And at least Dormammu has some decent feats on panel (like stalemating the guy that shook the multiverse).

lol. WTF kind of argument is that? Strange has stalemated Dormammu and also beaten him using the eye of Agamotto. Dr Voodoo dropped by the Dark Dimension and beat Dormmamu when he became the new SS. Strange had to have Galactus fight Agamotto because Agamotto easily trapped him inside a bubble. Galactus fought and could do nothing to Thanos or Nebula when they had the IG. While a mere M-body LT was able to stop the IG user's attack, reverse it, and had him submit to judgment.

LT M-body>=IG user > Galactus=Agamotto>Strange=Dormammu=Odin

Lol. That's pretty much your argument about atleast Dormammu stalemated a guy that shook the multiverse.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
[B]No you fanboy! He's talking about Eternity.

Anthromorpho: Eternity is so transfinite that there are numerous manifestations of him here.
Anthromorpho : Our dimension contains reflections of every manifestation we have ever done
Quasar : Can you point us to a recent manifestation body of Eternity.

And if you want to argue he was talking about everyone in the court, then LT using an M-body too. Because we don't see Warlock in the trial at all. He's a physical with the Infinity Gauntlet. That's why he isn't there in the trial in Quasar because he never took an M-body and hence no reflection.

So in Warlock and the Infinity Watch 1, an M-body of LT stopped what no body that court could and shocked an IG user. Said LT M-body passed judgement despite Warlock's threats. Both knew the 616 would've been destroyed had Warlock decided to fight the LT M-Body and Warlock blinked - backing down.

So according to you, LT's mere M-body was more than sufficient in handling the IG from Warlock. LMAO!!!

Yeah, according to you, we've seen an M-body of LT dismiss an IG attack, reversed it, passed judgment, and willing to fight for the Gauntlet despite the destruction of the 616 and the one to blink was the IG user.

The fact remains EVERYONE except Warlock at the trial was an M-body. That's why Eternity's M-body stated "if this had been my actuality and not a representation, the Gauntlet's effects would be non-existent".

We don't know how much power Cosmic bestow upon each M-body. This explains why Ziran tanked Warlock's "cosmic backhand" while others, who are supposedly more powerful like Order/Chaos and Eternity, went flying.

Tribunal restoring order by putting a bunch of cosmic mannequins back into their proper place is a meaningless show of power.

And yes, the LT's M-body was about to throw down with the IG. What's the big deal? The LT's M-body couldn't force the IG out of his hands or shut down the Gems without the wielder's permission.

WTF do you think architects do? You think a tree is going to be inside into a house?

The fact that you think architects = creators, since according to you "wtf you think architects do?", tells me all I need to know. Look up "creator" and "architect" in the dictionary. Then get back to me.

lol And hold up, mere guardians? You just put a handbook over that actual comic source and called that a retcon. Hahaha, keep trying but it changes nothing. Handbooks don't retcon anything at all.

So according to your logic, handbooks can retcon actual comics? Wait till everyone on this board here's about this. I thought you we ignorant but this is just plain stupid. Handbooks don't retcon shit!

Curse MAWR! It really adds to the points you're trying to make. The fact is they went from "creators", to "architects", to "guardians" according to Official Marvel info. You can cry about Handbooks all you want.

And as for Reed, Reed would piss on the Phoenix Force because all it takes is a planetary EMP please don't pretend like that wouldn't happen to the PF.

I'm sure Reed would. That's why someone so exceptionally intelligent stating on panel that the Big Bang = the PF, is so important.

lol. And so he came back to defeat Dormammu because he was strongest one right? Oh wait, he and the other guardians channeled their powers into Dr. Strange to attack only for Dormammu to turn it back and kill Strange. lol It was yet another Sorcerror Supreme and his eye of Agamotto that defeated Dormammu. Giraud couldn't do jack.

You mean that very same issue where at the end Dormammu shows up and the next arc is about how Dormammu stomped everyone including Giraud? Eternity stating all and then Giraud fails to defeat Dormammu even with the back up of the GOTG and Strange proves otherwise.

Girad just got through saving the universe from destruction, curing himself and his friends from a fatal disease, and banishing Bubonicus to some distant dimension. I think he can be excused for not stealing the show again in the VERY next issue. The fact remains Dual Dormammu did NOTHING to Giruad except knock him back, this is after Giraud burned Dual Dormammu's hand.

In this very universe, the Protege HUMILIATED the LT until Scathan stepped in. Scathan muzzled then restrained him and the LT STILL had to steal power from the Eye of Agamotto to pass judgment on the Protege.

Show me the LT doing something like this without having outside help (Scathan or the Eye of Agamotto) -

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

lol. WTF kind of argument is that? Strange has stalemated Dormammu and also beaten him using the eye of Agamotto. Dr Voodoo dropped by the Dark Dimension and beat Dormmamu when he became the new SS. Strange had to have Galactus fight Agamotto because Agamotto easily trapped him inside a bubble. Galactus fought and could do nothing to Thanos or Nebula when they had the IG. While a mere M-body LT was able to stop the IG user's attack, reverse it, and had him submit to judgment.
LT M-body>=IG user > Galactus=Agamotto>Strange=Dormammu=Odin

The LT reversed an attack against M-bodies! Not the actual abstracts. That's all he did. He didn't force the Gauntlet from Adam's hands, he couldn't shut down the Gems without Adam's consent. How the xxxx is this a feat for him?

Lol. That's pretty much your argument about atleast Dormammu stalemated a guy that shook the multiverse.

Show me on panel evidence of the LT doing what Odin did or drop this. Because you're boring me.

Originally posted by zopzop
The fact remains EVERYONE except Warlock at the trial was an M-body. That's why Eternity's M-body stated "if this had been my actuality and not a representation, the Gauntlet's effects would be non-existent".

We don't know how much power Cosmic bestow upon each M-body. This explains why Ziran tanked Warlock's "cosmic backhand" while others, who are supposedly more powerful like Order/Chaos and Eternity, went flying.

Tribunal restoring order by putting a bunch of cosmic mannequins back into their proper place is a meaningless show of power.

And yes, the LT's M-body was about to throw down with the IG. What's the big deal? The LT's M-body couldn't force the IG out of his hands or shut down the Gems without the wielder's permission.

The fact that you think architects = creators, since according to you "wtf you think architects do?", tells me all I need to know. Look up "creator" and "architect" in the dictionary. Then get back to me.

Curse MAWR! It really adds to the points you're trying to make. The fact is they went from "creators", to "architects", to "guardians" according to Official Marvel info. You can cry about Handbooks all you want.

I'm sure Reed would. That's why someone so exceptionally intelligent stating on panel that the Big Bang = the PF, is so important.

Girad just got through saving the universe from destruction, curing himself and his friends from a fatal disease, and banishing Bubonicus to some distant dimension. I think he can be excused for not stealing the show again in the VERY next issue. The fact remains Dual Dormammu did NOTHING to Giruad except knock him back, this is after Giraud burned Dual Dormammu's hand.

In this very universe, the Protege HUMILIATED the LT until Scathan stepped in. Scathan muzzled then restrained him and the LT STILL had to steal power from the Eye of Agamotto to pass judgment on the Protege.

Show me the LT doing something like this without having outside help (Scathan or the Eye of Agamotto) -

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The LT reversed an attack against M-bodies! Not the actual abstracts. That's all he did. He didn't force the Gauntlet from Adam's hands, he couldn't shut down the Gems without Adam's consent. How the xxxx is this a feat for him?

Show me on panel evidence of the LT doing what Odin did or drop this. Because you're boring me.

Youre killin it bro! 💃 😂

I"m not convinced the Witch destroyed everything so much as just made a domino effect. But I'm also not convinced that the PF could do anything even near that. I"d say Scarlet Witch was as powerful as maybe a Psycho Full Powered Galactus would be. The PF doesn't strike me as quite the powerful. Maybe close but not quite there. I'd give PF the win in a fight tho. The Witch did more collateral dmg and never really fought any cosmic beings.

Originally posted by Oak Parker
I"m not convinced the Witch destroyed everything so much as just made a domino effect. But I'm also not convinced that the PF could do anything even near that. I"d say Scarlet Witch was as powerful as maybe a Psycho Full Powered Galactus would be. The PF doesn't strike me as quite the powerful. Maybe close but not quite there. I'd give PF the win in a fight tho. The Witch did more collateral dmg and never really fought any cosmic beings.

I'd direct your attention to the two Phoenix respect threads in the respect forum.

Because if you dont even think the Phoenix is as powerful as Galactus then you've missed out on a lot of comics bro. 😬

The Scarlet Witch turned planet Earth into House of M which indirectly affected 616 on a universal level.

Leakover of the warp(Chaos Wave) got through to Otherworld through Excaliburs lighthouse and collided with it resulting in the collapse of a few realities. Why? Because Otherworld was made a multiversal nexus by the Phoenix Force which facilitated a domino effect from the Chaos Wave collision.

The Chaos Wave was not created by Wanda, she had no knowledge of it and wasnt maintaining it, therefore all it did was not a feat of Wandas. She unwittingly triggered it when she made House of M.

Wandas feats are creating House of M ( a global warp) and the No More Mutants spell. She is no greater than a cube being.

Galactus is leagues below the Phoenix Force. Hes a planet eater, the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang from which all matter and energy in the universe id derived. Theres no comparison. Galactus' biggest feat is blowing up a galaxy in an outburst of energy. Phoenixes are:

containing the power of the M'kraan crystal that destroyed and rest the previous multiverse resulting in the current one.

Giving Jean Grey the power to telekinetically amputate whole timelines

Empowering Jean Grey to manipulate the atoms of 616 in the palm of her hand.

Originally posted by zopzop
The fact remains EVERYONE except Warlock at the trial was an M-body. That's why Eternity's M-body stated "if this had been my actuality and not a representation, the Gauntlet's effects would be non-existent".

So wait, now Warlock isn't the supreme being of the 616 when he got that the IG. The IG's has already stomped the Galactus and the other physicals in the hand of Thanos and Nebula. Warlock was a far more competent user than Nebula and rival Thanos. And he could do nothing to stop that trial. Eternity is full of bull considering Magus with 5 cubes created a duplicate universe and even than that power compared nothing to what he held when he attained the IG. And guess what, Warlock had that power and still backed down from LT because he would have to struggle for the Gauntlet which would have destroyed the 616. Non-existence would means jack because Warlock and LT would've destroyed 616, the totality of Eternity. Damn your dumb.

We don't know how much power Cosmic bestow upon each M-body. This explains why Ziran tanked Warlock's "cosmic backhand" while others, who are supposedly more powerful like Order/Chaos and Eternity, went flying.

We know that Eternity always use M-bodies. And Thanos even admitted that he rise his power level to fight Eternity because everyone before he was merely footsoldiers. We know and you believe M-bodies to be weaker than the actual self. We know Warlock back down because he couldn't beat an M-Body of LT with destroying the totality of Eternity. lol Just stop pretending by this point.

Tribunal restoring order by putting a bunch of cosmic mannequins back into their proper place is a meaningless show of power.

Meaningless? How many power treat Chaos, Order, and Eternity with just a back hand? You make it sound as if it's every day you see something like this. It took top teams on Earth and the top abstracts led by Adam Warlock to take the Gauntlet from Thanos and Nebula. And since when does the Phoenix Force snap it's fingers and such an attack? Don't speculate now okay.

And yes, the LT's M-body was about to throw down with the IG. What's the big deal? The LT's M-body couldn't force the IG out of his hands or shut down the Gems without the wielder's permission.

Yes, the M-body made a fool out of a wielder of the master of aspects of the universe. And like you said, he's just a cosmic mannequin that would could not beat without destroying the totality of Eternity.

Ergo cosmic mannequin LT > = User Wielder = destruction of the totality of Eternity

Thanks for helping me out.

The fact that you think architects = creators, since according to you "wtf you think architects do?", tells me all I need to know. Look up "creator" and "architect" in the dictionary. Then get back to me.

So in other words you got nothing like always. Those two were powerful enough to build realities. How many times do you see the PF build or create realities? Not timelines and heresay. You got any examples? Thought so.

Curse MAWR! It really adds to the points you're trying to make. The fact is they went from "creators", to "architects", to "guardians" according to Official Marvel info. You can cry about Handbooks all you want.

God you're stupid. You use handbooks to retcon actual comics. But then again, you sound like you read more handbooks than actual comics.

I'm sure Reed would. That's why someone so exceptionally intelligent stating on panel that the Big Bang = the PF, is so important.

Yes, because being the big bang is the same shit as being TOAA. Is that why it got beaten up by Xorn and that Entity ship.

Girad just got through saving the universe from destruction, curing himself and his friends from a fatal disease, and banishing Bubonicus to some distant dimension. I think he can be excused for not stealing the show again in the VERY next issue. The fact remains Dual Dormammu did NOTHING to Giruad except knock him back, this is after Giraud burned Dual Dormammu's hand.

So now Giraud should be excused. Wait, you didn't excuse LT's showing. Then again you can't do anything but make up excuses for all weak showings by the Phoenix Force.

Giraud could do no ****en thing to defeat Dormammu even with the assist of the other GOTG and Strange. More powerful than LT my ass.

In this very universe, the Protege HUMILIATED the LT until Scathan stepped in. Scathan muzzled then restrained him and the LT STILL had to steal power from the Eye of Agamotto to pass judgment on the Protege.

Yes. Protege who Eternity, Scathan, LT, and the Hawk God admitted was a multiversal threat. Boobonicus was a universal threat. Dormammu was a universal threat. And even then, Giraud lost with assist while a Sorcerror Supreme with the Eye of Agamotto defeated him. Thanks for trying real hard but you keep come up looking stupid.

Show me the LT doing something like this without having outside help (Scathan or the Eye of Agamotto) -

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Doing what, hurting an M-body of Eternity? An M-body of LT already ignored an attack that floored the majority of the cosmics including Eternity. Then he told the guy that was the supreme being of the 616 to hand over the power of fight for it. Guess what? The supreme being back down from the fight because it would've destroyed the totality of Eternity/616.

So how'd Giraud do against Dormammu? Wasn't the Eye of Agamotto involved at all? OH THAT's right, Giraud failed even assistants. Never mind, over blown feat and hype up shit from Eternity. Every body, you can all go home now. Nothing to see here but another hyped up Phoenix Force feat.

And lol at Giraud calling Eternity mighty. I guess he never met an IG user before.

The LT reversed an attack against M-bodies! Not the actual abstracts. That's all he did. He didn't force the Gauntlet from Adam's hands, he couldn't shut down the Gems without Adam's consent. How the xxxx is this a feat for him?

The M-body LT didn't even have to force the IG user. He had him in awe of his powers, passed judgment, and let it be known that he was willing to fight for that power. The IG user chickened out and submitted to the M-body's will. A mere freaken M-body of LT did that. How's that not a feat when it didn't even take the true LT to show up to the trial.

Show me on panel evidence of the LT doing what Odin did or drop this. Because you're boring me.

Naw, you're entertaining me with you're nonsense. Odin's death in Thor's book was just a mere whisper in LT's presence while it was big news to everybody else. Lol. Odin shook the multiverse. Wait, the PF shook the multiverse too? Hahaha.

Yeah... protege power level is only as limited as the most powerful thing in the multiverse. if Protege wants to mirror TOAA then Protege mirrors it and there isn't much anyone can do at that point

Originally posted by zopzop

Rachel gave herself over to Galactus. When she was in danger of dying, she would have taken all creation with her. That's hardly a "low showing".

It's a low showing because it can be killed. Weak compared to LT.

The Ultraverse isn't a low showing either. Since we don't know how Abstractions and Forces from MU function in the Ultraverse. Black Knight freaking stabbed and "killed" Nemesis with the Ebony Blade!

Since we don't know? That's your excuse for everything. And lol at you argument about MU beings functioning in the Ultraverse. Get this straight, the Ultraverse existed inside the MU by that point when Marvel bought Malibu. And the Phoenix Force was still in the 616 when this alien vessel pulled it into the Ultraverse - it could not resist that pull. And the Phoenix Force and Nemesis are not the same being? huh. It's just another weak showing for the PF because that's the way writers feel about it's durability. It just further confirms that random alien weaponry stomp the PF.

The Xorn incident is in direct contradiction to the events in Exaclibur and the handbooks.

So what? The showing was the foundation for Endsong, Warsong, and Here Comes Tomorrow where you get that timeline cutting feat. So stop whining because Jean is still in her grave from that and the Phoenix Force shattered. Low showing, weak for something that's suppose to be the power source of everything like you people claim.

And how do you explain the LT draining power from the Eye of Agamotto to imprison the Protege even AFTER he had been restrained by Scathan? Scathan stopped the Protege's rampage then restrained him and the LT still couldn't do anything to him without drawing power from an object created by someone that's about Dormammu's level of power!

That's funny because Dormammu killed Strange who had absorb the power of the GOTG including Giraud. Giraud could do nothing to stop Dormammu who was only beaten by the new SS using the Eye of Agamotto. Same level my ass. Even when he's twice as powerful, he was still beat by the eye's power. But wait, did that multiversal threat harm LT in any way? Did LT get shattered or caged and used as fuel. No? Well alright then you have yet another case of nothing to debate about.

I said no such thing. There's obviously only so much info you can cram in a handbook entry. How would you possibly fit 30 years of ALL the characters showings in a page or two?

I've got a better idea. Why don't you show me a handbook of any character that included a feat from a What If? as part of there history.

How was 616 functioning without the actual PF in it? If it was pulled completely into the ULtraverse as you claim.

How was the 616 still functioning when Rook Shir was killed? How was the 616 still functioning when Jean was killed. When the Phoenix Force was shattered into a billion pieces? Can you say retcon? Hahaha, i know you can! So say it.

You were making up stories, I merely joined in on the fun.

Yeah, but you seem to make up more shit and then ignore what's presented.

Oh the Protege incident was a very low showing. Leeching power from Agamotto's artifact to get the job done is lame.

That's funny considering Strange absorbed or leeched power from Giraud and still got stomped by Dormammu. Then a new SS leeched power from the Eye of Agamotto and beat Dormammu. lol. In other words, the Eye of Agmatto isn't something to scuff at.

He [b]supposedly destroys anything that threatens the balance in the multiverse. Planets, beings, universes, etc..Has he EVER destroyed a universe on panel?[/b]

No. Not on panel because he can handle most things without resorting to that. Did the Phoenix Force destroy the universe when Bubonicus plague it? So why would any force of good do that unless it's necessary. lol Unlike you, people actually try to put a out fire with a hose and not just smash the entire house down to prevent it from burning to ashes.

Yes or no? Has he ever destroyed anything greater than a star on panel? Has he destroyed a cosmic being or Abstraction on panel?
No? Okay then.

Yeah, his M-body was willing to fight over power that would've destroyed the totality of the 616 and that punk with the power blinked. Even without destroying the universe, a mere M-body did what nobody else in the 616 could. lol He even prevent two beings from building new realities just by closing his hand. Letse the fiery pigeon do that.

I don't think Protege can be used as something bad if he humiliated someone.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Yeah... protege power level is only as limited as the most powerful thing in the multiverse. if Protege wants to mirror TOAA then Protege mirrors it and there isn't much anyone can do at that point

Although I do agree Protege was one of the most powerful beings ever in comics, but only why he was so powerful was becuase of TOAA.
Protege can't mirror TOAA.
As powerful as he was, he was also immature.

Originally posted by Mr Master
WhiteWitchKing ... as always stomping the fanboy fallacies to the ground. 👆

Look who i'm debating, hardly a surprise.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
[B]So wait, now Warlock isn't the supreme being of the 616 when he got that the IG. The IG's has already stomped the Galactus and the other physicals in the hand of Thanos and Nebula. Warlock was a far more competent user than Nebula and rival Thanos. And he could do nothing to stop that trial. Eternity is full of bull considering Magus with 5 cubes created a duplicate universe and even than that power compared nothing to what he held when he attained the IG. And guess what, Warlock had that power and still backed down from LT because he would have to struggle for the Gauntlet which would have destroyed the 616. Non-existence would means jack because Warlock and LT would've destroyed 616, the totality of Eternity. Damn your dumb.

We know that Eternity always use M-bodies. And Thanos even admitted that he rise his power level to fight Eternity because everyone before he was merely footsoldiers. We know and you believe M-bodies to be weaker than the actual self. We know Warlock back down because he couldn't beat an M-Body of LT with destroying the totality of Eternity. lol Just stop pretending by this point.

Meaningless? How many power treat Chaos, Order, and Eternity with just a back hand? You make it sound as if it's every day you see something like this. It took top teams on Earth and the top abstracts led by Adam Warlock to take the Gauntlet from Thanos and Nebula. And since when does the Phoenix Force snap it's fingers and such an attack? Don't speculate now okay.

Yes, the M-body made a fool out of a wielder of the master of aspects of the universe. And like you said, he's just a cosmic mannequin that would could not beat without destroying the totality of Eternity.

Ergo cosmic mannequin LT > = User Wielder = destruction of the totality of Eternity

Thanks for helping me out.

I see reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points. Everyone at the trial was an M-body, Adam excluded. Ziran and LT stood their ground when Warlock attempted to swat them away. Most everyone agrees that Eternity and other higher level abstracts like Order/Chaos are more powerful than any single Celestial (Scathan and maybe the exalted Tiamut excluded). Given on panel evidence it's obvious the M-body doesn't necessarily inherit all of the original abstractions power (hence why Ziran's withstood the attack but Eternity/Order/Chaos couldn't). The LT snapping his fingers and restoring mannequins is a worthless feat. The fact that you don't see it, is because you are desperate for any on panel showing of power from the LT.

So in other words you got nothing like always. Those two were powerful enough to build realities. How many times do you see the PF build or create realities? Not timelines and heresay. You got any examples? Thought so.

God you're stupid. You use handbooks to retcon actual comics. But then again, you sound like you read more handbooks than actual comics.

Yes stupid enough to see that Marvel keeps retconning and reducing their importance from creators to architects to guardians. And again this assumes he had their actuality in his hands.

Yes, because being the big bang is the same shit as being TOAA. Is that why it got beaten up by Xorn and that Entity ship.

It's a low showing because it can be killed. Weak compared to LT.

Since we don't know? That's your excuse for everything. And lol at you argument about MU beings functioning in the Ultraverse. Get this straight, the Ultraverse existed inside the MU by that point when Marvel bought Malibu. And the Phoenix Force was still in the 616 when this alien vessel pulled it into the Ultraverse - it could not resist that pull. And the Phoenix Force and Nemesis are not the same being? huh. It's just another weak showing for the PF because that's the way writers feel about it's durability. It just further confirms that random alien weaponry stomp the PF.

So what? The showing was the foundation for Endsong, Warsong, and Here Comes Tomorrow where you get that timeline cutting feat. So stop whining because Jean is still in her grave from that and the Phoenix Force shattered. Low showing, weak for something that's suppose to be the power source of everything like you people claim.

How was the 616 still functioning when Rook Shir was killed? How was the 616 still functioning when Jean was killed. When the Phoenix Force was shattered into a billion pieces? Can you say retcon? Hahaha, i know you can! So say it.

Do yourself a favor and look at the scans GS provided to enlighten your bitter and angry self. Then do yourself another favor and find yourself a dictionary and look up the word "Avatar". Then you can drop this and stop making a fool of yourself.

And the LT himself was killed by Reed, so what's your point?

So now Giraud should be excused. Wait, you didn't excuse LT's showing. Then again you can't do anything but make up excuses for all weak showings by the Phoenix Force.

Giraud could do no ****en thing to defeat Dormammu even with the assist of the other GOTG and Strange. More powerful than LT my ass.

That's funny considering Strange absorbed or leeched power from Giraud and still got stomped by Dormammu. Then a new SS leeched power from the Eye of Agamotto and beat Dormammu. lol. In other words, the Eye of Agmatto isn't something to scuff at.

Yes. Protege who Eternity, Scathan, LT, and the Hawk God admitted was a multiversal threat. Boobonicus was a universal threat. Dormammu was a universal threat. And even then, Giraud lost with assist while a Sorcerror Supreme with the Eye of Agamotto defeated him. Thanks for trying real hard but you keep come up looking stupid.

How do we know how much power Giraud was pumping into Strange? On panel Rachel gave Necrom the whole PF she contained and it blew him up. Why would Giraud pump a frail old man with every ounce of power he had?

Fact remains Giraud saved Eternity (and hence the universe) from destruction and it's stated on panel. LT couldn't do jack to the Protege and resorted to stealing power from an artifact to even pass judgment on the Protege.

Doing what, hurting an M-body of Eternity? An M-body of LT already ignored an attack that floored the majority of the cosmics including Eternity. Then he told the guy that was the supreme being of the 616 to hand over the power of fight for it. Guess what? The supreme being back down from the fight because it would've destroyed the totality of Eternity/616.

So how'd Giraud do against Dormammu? Wasn't the Eye of Agamotto involved at all? OH THAT's right, Giraud failed even assistants. Never mind, over blown feat and hype up shit from Eternity. Every body, you can all go home now. Nothing to see here but another hyped up Phoenix Force feat.

And lol at Giraud calling Eternity mighty. I guess he never met an IG user before.

Where did Giraud call Eternity mighty? He called him "infinite one" which is what he is. And how do you know that was an M-body and not Eternity himself? Show me the last time an attack on an M-body of Eternity affected the universe. Since you love running your mouth and calling people stupid, this should be an easy feat. Giraud healing Eternity's "M-body" shook creation and taught an abstract concept the meaning of the word pain. That's pretty damn impressive and it was accomplished under his own power with no outside help (unlike the LT).

The M-body LT didn't even have to force the IG user. He had him in awe of his powers, passed judgment, and let it be known that he was willing to fight for that power. The IG user chickened out and submitted to the M-body's will. A mere freaken M-body of LT did that. How's that not a feat when it didn't even take the true LT to show up to the trial.

Actually no. The LT couldn't force the IG from Adam's hand. The LT couldn't force the IG to stop functioning until Adam submitted to his judgment. The LT guilted Adam into stepping down from the fight.

Naw, you're entertaining me with you're nonsense. Odin's death in Thor's book was just a mere whisper in LT's presence while it was big news to everybody else. Lol. Odin shook the multiverse. Wait, the PF shook the multiverse too? Hahaha.

See this? This is how i know your full of xxxx otherwise you'd post scans of the LT destroying galaxies/reigniting long dead stars and shaking the multiverse on panel. But you have nothing so you act like a child throwing a tantrum.

edit

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All bravado, complete lack of substance.

As ever Mr Master youre just not good enough im afraid.

Your post doesn't necessitate a proper rebuttal due to you recycling the same points i've decimated over the years, the very same ones WWK failed with in this thread.

Nice of you to make an appearance as ineffectual as it was.

Enjoy your weekend

But yea, enjoy your week friend.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Its quite clear that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation, the Big Bang turned sentient. Thats the role bestowed on it by TOAA.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Look who i'm debating, hardly a surprise.

Originally posted by Xplosive
I don't think Protege can be used as something bad if he humiliated someone.

Although I do agree Protege was one of the most powerful beings ever in comics, but only why he was so powerful was becuase of TOAA.
Protege can't mirror TOAA.
As powerful as he was, he was also immature.