Originally posted by Nihilist
I know its kinda pointless with him, it sad really.
Child you can barely type english.
You stated your ignorance, i blew you away with my reply and you scarpered, only to return because you feel WhiteWitchQueen has your back.
Unless youre going to respond to the points i brought up in response to your poor attempt, then away with you 😬
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKingBecause the Phoenix Force would've fared better right? It would've ignored a point blank attack by the IG right? And you can justify with that Xorn, Enitity ship, Galactus, or Rook Shir showing huh? Or that Goblin Force showing? And don't tell me this nonsense about how the IG's power came from the Big Bang and therefore the PF has power over it when the PF has never displayed power like the IG.
Of course it would have. The IG is a mere universal trinket whose power by current continuity stems from the Big Bang which the Phoenix Force fuels. The IG is powerless outside of its native universe by current continuity thereby highlighting its very universal power and yet you would compare it to a being who can empower a multitude of hosts simultaneously across existence whilst also empowering one to manipulate all the atoms of 616 in her palm. That globule of a reality that the IG draws its power from? 😂
All of the instances youve brought up have been discounted and yet you cling to them because you have NOTHING 😄
The firebird as stated on panel is JUST an avatar of the Force, NOT its totality, just a fragment. Xorn blew up a distracted host and her portion of the Force who wasnt even fighting him, she was pampering him and he stabbed her in the back. The woman had just flown from the centre of a sun. Use your brains please. Says nothing for the Phoenix Force.
The Alien Entity was dealing with an avatar of the Force. Not its totality. The issue even said the firebird was just a fragment of the Phoenix Force and that away from its main source it was depowered in the Ultraverse which facilitated the story. PLOT DEVICE.
Its actually stated in the handbooks that it was only Rachel who was at risk, not the Force, Galactus on panel also states that his device was only separating the Force from Rachel and returning it to the cosmos. So who are you to tell us something different happened? GTFO 😆
What do you know of Rookshir or his connection with the Force. For all we know he could have had a limited connection like Rachel did most of the time. And once again that does not damage the Phoenix Force or demean its multitude of top tier feats.
Please come harder 😄
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
It is comedy gold when you think a being such as the PF who get stomped by alien weaponry and a mutie named Xorn is even a match for the Tribunal. And all you have is What Ifs that has nothing to do with the canon PF as proof. Everything I've pointed to is canon for the PF; it's power is easily manipulated by others. While all you've got is just denials of any feat I've brought up for the Tribunal. If you would like, then bring up put up a thread involving the Tribunal and the Phoenix Force. You and I aren't going to argue on this. The board members have enough knowledge of both characters to decide and if they don't I'm sure you can enlighten them on how powerful the PF compared to LT. Lol.
Youve completely lost the whole point zopzop and i were trying to make here and got caught up in your waffle and blinded by your ignorance.
No one was saying that the Phoenix Force was more powerful than LT. The point was that for all the high regard he is held in, he does not have the feats to match this status.
Role does NOT equate to power. So he may well be the top authority under the Creator, however he has shown that he is not infallible, he has shown there are limits to how far hes willing to go in battle and he has shown that his mbodys can be destroyed. With that in mind, his status alone is NOT enough to make him win all of the forum battles he does.
If he just had this status and didnt have such low showings then yeah maybe we could just excuse his lack of power displays and battle feats. But these low showings, his stated limits and uncertainty when facing universal powers that his status should place him far above, plus his defeat at the hands of lowly powers mean that the logical and sensible thing is to require power displays to more accurately determine the outcome of a forum battle hes featured in.
Dont get me wrong, the Phoenix has many low showings, however none featured the full force, just avatars and hosts that wield a portion of its power, its shown on panel that by canon it is totally indestructible and to top it off it has the best feats on panel of any character in Marvels current continuity.
You may argue that LT uses Mbodys so his low showings can be written off similarly, but when you take into account the fact that he has zero comparable high end feats then youre back to square one 😬
LT is the top authority in Marvel, however as we've seen on panel so far there appears to be a limit to how much power hes willing (or possibly able given how many mbodys he must simultaneously need to protect the multiverse) to employ in a confrontation. Therefore how can we just excuse that and make him win against all characters below Creator level? You cant and yet remain logical.
Unless we're dealing with the supreme being, we can only go by power displays and given LTs displayed limits and fallibility, hes top authority, not necessarily top in forum battles.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
He's a hardcore fanboy on the level of Quanchi. And you know how much sense Quan has.
Yes you carry on referring to me indirectly WitchQueen.
You know i would not entertain your rubbish for as long as the very patient Zopzop.
In debate with me, this thread would be quite a few pages shorter.
Whenever youre ready. 😮💨
Originally posted by zopzop
No you still don't get it I see. Every time something truly multiverse shaking goes on the LT is powerless to stop it (Protege, HotI, etc..
Yeah, shaking the multiverse and LT not able to stop them and you mention Protege and HOTI, two of the most powerful in MU.
I get it. You don't get it that at least 🙂 saving the universe doesn't get it any plus in this case, so it's irrelevant mentioning it, because it doesn't help you with Protege.
And bringing Protege and losing to him or not be capable of defeating him on his own, doesn't take away anything from LT. Protege had such vast powers and that's it.
I mean, PF saved the universe and LT couldn't do to Protege anything.
Could PF save a universe if it would face Protege like others did or it wouldn't be able to do anyhitng like others couldn't. See the point?
It's different saving a reality when you are not facing Protege or THOTI.
Well, Scathan, LT+EOTA saved all realities.
Go search for Franklin destroying a universe, because he did it.
Originally posted by zopzop
Except that's not what happened. The Protege attacked, Scathan muzzled him. Then as the LT was passing judgment, Scathan removed the muzzle at the LT's request but continued to restrain him. The LT then had to steal power SECRETLY from the Eye of Agamotto to be capable of passing judgment and then imprisoning the Protege.
And what I said was different?
You said excatly what I said only more detailed. LT was able to pass a judgment on him, because Scathan restrained him and in posts before I said he used EOTA. Unlike you, I don't like to repeat myself all over always again.
Originally posted by zopzop
What has he been shown destroying on panel Xplosive? Can you show me?
Do you think he couldn't do it?
Originally posted by zopzop
Could he? He's done it before on panel? Scans of him doing it?
She-Hulk talked him out of it.
Here is the case when a lot of KMC members who are attached to a specific character doesn't use sense.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Xp ive been through this with you already. Its like i tell you something and point it out and panel and you accept it, only to forget just weeks later 😬
I didn't forget anything. I know it's the particle of the the full PF. But I want to know if it's the same particle (probably it is, because it was 616) that empowered Jean Grey to do the job in HCT as the WPOTC. Very Simple.
Only what happened now is that you again confused what I wanted to know.
It was a simple question.
I said in WHR, because, well in this case, it literally was only in the WHR.
I didn't say she couldn't do it differently or that WHR specifically empowers her.
But if we go by you, I could say, panel or speculation. Show me the panel doing the excat same thing outside of WHR or its speculation. You are the one who is doing such things always, not me.
I don't need it in this case.
The point is that WPOTC did a great feat, but was (PF) then shattered by such small powers (twice). I said that because if we go by that, the feat as WPOTC wouldn't really help it in a direct confrotation with such vast powers, since the same PF was blown to pieces by really tiny powers.
Although LT was also blown by Richards gun.
I didn't take anything from the already done feat.
Originally posted by GalacticStormBlew me away 😂, it's not my fault you can't understand what's shown on panel.
Child you can barely type english.You stated your ignorance, i blew you away with my reply and you scarpered, only to return because you feel WhiteWitchQueen has your back.
Unless youre going to respond to the points i brought up in response to your poor attempt, then away with you 😬
Scarlet Witch ftw.
Originally posted by Xplosive
[B]Yeah, shaking the multiverse and LT not able to stop them and you mention Protege and HOTI, two of the most powerful in MU.I get it. You don't get it that at least 🙂 saving the universe doesn't get it any plus in this case, so it's irrelevant mentioning it, because it doesn't help you with Protege.
And bringing Protege and losing to him or not be capable of defeating him on his own, doesn't take away anything from LT. Protege had such vast powers and that's it.
I mean, PF saved the universe and LT couldn't do to Protege anything.
Could PF save a universe if it would face Protege like others did or it wouldn't be able to do anyhitng like others couldn't. See the point?
It's different saving a reality when you are not facing Protege or THOTI.Well, Scathan, LT+EOTA saved all realities.
Ok let's try this one more time, then I give up.
IF the LT is only needed when multiversal threats show up like the HotI and the Protege
THEN he's a failure. Since every time something of that magnitude has come up, he's failed to do anything worthwhile.
IF the LT considers "mere" universal level threats beneath him
THEN he's worthless since the PF and others are there to save the day.
SO what use is he?
Go search for Franklin destroying a universe, because he did it.
Why should I search for it when you are the one who brought it up? You can at least give me an issue number or something where it appeared in.
And what I said was different?
You said excatly what I said only more detailed. LT was able to pass a judgment on him, because Scathan restrained him and in posts before I said he used EOTA. Unlike you, I don't like to repeat myself all over always again.
No you left out chunks of info. Repeating oneself is good, because it drives the point across.
Do you think he couldn't do it?
Could Zom destroy a universe? Could the Infinites? Could Shuma Gorath? Could Chthon? Just because you think they can, doesn't mean they can. If you got anything on panel and not mere speculation, I'm ready to be convinced.
She-Hulk talked him out of it.
Here is the case when a lot of KMC members who are attached to a specific character doesn't use sense.
Sweet. So he's been shown ON PANEL swapping out one universe for another? When did it happen? I'd love to see it.
Why to come to save a universe, when there are others to do the job. 🙂
LT is always a use. He stopped IG. He comes when there is inbalance.
It seems he came when multiversal powers were at the work. And he stopped IG and he+EOTA and Scathan together defeated Protege (and what use would it be of PF saving the universe, if those wouldn't stop Protege? None.). So he wasn't useless against Protege, not at all. Scathan did his job, Living Tribunal did his.
Originally posted by zopzop
Could Zom destroy a universe? Could the Infinites? Could Shuma Gorath? Could Chthon? Just because you think they can, doesn't mean they can. If you got anything on panel and not mere speculation, I'm ready to be convinced.
I said for Protege, not others. I think he could, what do you think?
Originally posted by zopzop
Sweet. So he's been shown ON PANEL swapping out one universe for another? When did it happen? I'd love to see it.
He was about to do it, then he plucked She-Hulk out of time and space and She-Hulk convinced him not to replace it.
Originally posted by Xplosive
[B]Why to come to save a universe, when there are others to do the job. 🙂
LT is always a use. He stopped IG. He comes when there is inbalance.
It seems he came when multiversal powers were at the work. And he stopped IG and he+EOTA and Scathan together defeated Protege (and what use would it be of PF saving the universe, if those wouldn't stop Protege? None.). So he wasn't useless against Protege, not at all. Scathan did his job, Living Tribunal did his.
Wow. You still don't get it do you? It's ok.
I said for Protege, not others. I think he could, what do you think?
I think no. In the Universe which Korvac was destroying the Abstracts and Cosmics one by one, the same universe in which the LT ran from Korvac, he had to use the UN to destroy the universe. For all his power, after all the cosmics he killed and absorbed, he still could not do it under his own he needed the UN.
So if you have scans of the Protege destroying anything, post them now or drop it the subject.
He was about to do it, then he plucked She-Hulk out of time and space and She-Hulk convinced him not to replace it.
Go back and read what I asked you for, and compare it to what you've provided me with this link. See what I mean when I say you don't get it?
Originally posted by zopzop
Wow. You still don't get it do you? It's ok.
Tell me seriously you are not that stupid.
You couldn't tell... WTF
I knew all along what you wanted to say. ''Literal literal literal PANEL''
Originally posted by zopzop
Go back and read what I asked you for, and compare it to what you've provided me with this link. See what I mean when I say you don't get it?
I actually think you are the stupidest I have ever seen on KMC.
Why do you think I said someone like you who is attached to some specific character never makes any sense or is simply blinded, can't connect things, since he is so attached that makes him stupid too see things more clearly.
Do you want me to show a dick, so that you can see I have it?
''Show show show me ON PANEL''... f*ucking idiot.
F*uck you and your f*ucking word speculation.
Originally posted by zopzop
I think no.
Like I said, stupidiest I have seen on KMC.
Find a nearest window and exit.
Xplosive and Zopzop, the snide trollish remarks and outright bashing is not permitted. You both know this and still kept on. These are comics, learn to have a civil disagreement or use the ignore. I don't want to see trolling or bashing again.
Everyone else, disagreeing with Galactic Storm in a Phoenix thread is an offense worthy of an auto-ban. sneer
Originally posted by Xplosive
But if we go by you, I could say, panel or speculation. Show me the panel doing the excat same thing outside of WHR or its speculation. You are the one who is doing such things always, not me.
I don't need it in this case.
Not at all, because if you go back to the most powerful mutant thread in the X-men forums ive already had this out with both you and ExodusCloak in detail.
The Here Comes Tomorrow storyline heralded being a Phoenix host as the pinnacle of mutation, "the ultimate mutation" and what made it so powerful as stated throughout the series was its "telekinetic godhood". An unprecedented level of telekinetic power that meant Jean could do anything she set her mind to. Throughout the series we saw her telekinesis expand and a conversation between her and Logan talked of her having the power to telekinetically form universes. The series then had Jean telekinetically converting asteroid matter into a spaceship and powering it with energy from the Sun. In HCT she atomized a civilization then telekinetically slowed down time to study the process of atomization on a mutant body.
Then BEFORE entering the WHR, she telekinetically amputated 150 years of timeline which is a greater feat than manipulating 616 in her palm anyway. Therefore there is precedence for her displaying such a high level of power. So NO Xp this isnt the same situation at all. Given the focus of the series on Jeans growing telekinetic power and the feats she performed before antering the WHR, given the fact that the WHR feat was stated to be telekinetically achieved it would be speculation and fantasy on YOUR part to claim that Jean could only do it in the WHR.
Originally posted by Xplosive
The point is that WPOTC did a great feat, but was (PF) then shattered by such small powers (twice). I said that because if we go by that, the feat as WPOTC wouldn't really help it in a direct confrotation with such vast powers, since the same PF was blown to pieces by really tiny powers.
Although LT was also blown by Richards gun.I didn't take anything from the already done feat.
Only mere fragments of the Force have been shattered. Furthermore people seem to have a limited vision of what true indestructibility is. All people seem to picture is a hulk or superman type whereby an energy blasts hits them and they remain intact. Thats not truly indestructible. If a cosmic ripped superman's head off he'd be dead. A Phoenix energy avatar possesses true indestructibility. Its energy matrix can be blown apart across galaxies, its form can be used as fuel and yet afterwards it just casually reforms. That is why by canon as stated on panel and in the handbooks it is stated to be mutable(look up the definition) totally indestructible life force. That is a canon fact, so your concerns with regards to its durability are unwarranted.
Remember these low showings have just been from avatars. When Jeans portion of the Force was shattered there were still avatars in operation in other parts of 616. Rachel had a portion of the Phoenix in her adventures with the Starjammers for example, so the Force as a whole wasn't affected.
The Phoenix Force is the ambient creation energies of reality, so it is always present in reality and can manifest as the firebird at will. Even have many operating simultaneously as we've seen on panel.
Originally posted by Mindset
Well there was the IG, LT took care of that.
You aint been following the thread have you? 😖hifty:
LT stated he wasnt sure if he had the power to take the IG by force. If he states that, then who is any poster to say different? LT then went on to talk Adam out of a confrontation. Adam gave up the IG not wanting to destroy the universe in a struggle. It was only after Adam gave it up that LT was able to disabled an unmanned artifact.
That doesnt say much. 😬
Originally posted by Badabing
[B]Xplosive and Zopzop, the snide trollish remarks and outright bashing is not permitted. You both know this and still kept on. These are comics, learn to have a civil disagreement or use the ignore. I don't want to see trolling or bashing again.
He's cursing me out and while I'm merely stating that he's not understanding the point I'm trying to make. And for this I'm about to be banned?
I never attacked him personally or cursed him out. It seems that either a) I can't articulate my position clear enough or b) He really doesn't understand what I'm trying to say.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Xp ive been through this with you already. Its like i tell you something and point it out and panel and you accept it, only to forget just weeks laterWhy are you saying ONLY in the WHR?
Jean may have been in the WHR when she manipulated the atoms of 616 in her palm but as stated on panel the feat was achieved through Jeans telekinesis, NOT some imaginary powerup some ignorant posters argue she receives from being in the WHR.
Furthermore Jean BEFORE she went into the WHR destroyed 150 years of timeline telekinetically therefore giving precedence for her having the power to do such high level things.
Do NOT mention her being in the WHR again like it in any way affected the feat.
Still with this bullshit fallaciousness! ... HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!
"atoms of 616" ❌ ... more like Sublime's atoms.
So now the concept of "Time" can be manipulated via atoms. durlaugh
^^^
For the on panel and Handbook confirmed facts to be understood:
"Here Comes Tomorrow" took place in an alternate possible future,
one of the countless alternates belonging to 616.
It began in reality 15104 and ended there as well.
In fact, the ONLY connection within the story that involves 616,
is when that futuristic alternate Jean Grey went into the past of 15104, (which is 616 just like it is for all 'What If' titles) and changed Scott's decision from leaving the X-Men to staying.
THAT'S IT!!!!!
This in-turn altered the existence of Reality 15104. (just another possible future)
WHY???
Because it was Scott's decision (in 616)
to leave the X-Men that created Reality 15104 to begin with.
=====
FALSE: Jean with her power "destroyed 150 years of timeline telekinetically"
TRUE: Jean with her power changed Scott's mind,
and this destroyed the 150 year old Timeline.
The Power was in Scott's decision. (to create and destroy)
Like All 'What Ifs' ... a single human decision creates/destroys an alternate reality. 🙂
Originally posted by zopzop
Again with this. ON PANEL, a bunch of M-bodies were thrown about with the exception of Ziran and the LT. Ziran is supposedly weaker than Etnernity/Chaos/Order. How did he withstand the attack but the others couldn't? The LT snapping his fingers to restore order to a bunch of simulacrums isn't an impressive feat at all! Ziran was bracing and holding his ground without any sort of assistance at all.The LT admitted he didn't know if he could force the IG from Adam. Couldn't shut it down without Adam's consent (or else he would have done so). And finally guilted/talked him out of a fight.
LT admit nothing! Adam speculated that the M-body couldn't takke it from him and then back down from him when it came down to it.
Who's whining? If you want to exclude handbooks, they were merely architects of their respective realities (assuming he had their actuality in his hands), if you want to include handbooks they are just guardians. Either way, this feat is meaningless.
Lol. Meaning less but eating a star is somehow impressive? Where do I begin?
Unless you can provide something showing that was their actuality, you're just blowing steam. Even then, holding the two architects in his hands is less impressive than holding a universe and rearranging it atom by atom.
Rearranging the universe to do what? Make it spin? Changing Scott's decision and fixing the whole thing is not that hard a feat. He didn't just hold them, he prevented DC vs Marvel from occurring. Prevented two brothers from a fight that would end existence and bring it back. Read a book. LMAO.
The alternate universe showings are important because it's the only time I've seen of a character destroying a universe under it's own power. Something the LT has never done. The LT's highest on panel feat is matched by Jean and surpassed by Necrom in 616 using the PF.
Nobody on this board or any of the other boards give a sh!t about What Ifs. As far as everyone is concerned, it's not a legit feat for a character so stop bringing it up as if it mattered when no body cares.
Krueggar BFRed Korvac, the LT ran from him. Grats to the LT for BFRing Slorioth. I mean how hard was it to open a portal and let him move on to a realm where he could feast in peace.
Why don't you ask Giraud when he couldn't beat Dormammu and put him through a portal? And you should give congrats seeing as even the mystical abstracts which Krueggar draws most of his powers from so to think so.
So if Reed is such a force that he could own the LT and even the PF (according to you) then his ON PANEL statement that the PF is the Big Bang is beyond dispute. And I'll let that statement speak for itself.
Nobody is disputing that. The only dispute here is you thinking it being the big bang means it has the power of the IG when it doesn't. It even gets destroyed by far weaker beings. So what's the use of being the embodiment of the big bang when Star ships turn you into fuel cells and some mutie shatters you into a billion pieces? Nothing!
The LT never shows up when it counts (Eternity dying from Bubonicus, M'kran Crystal shattered, Maelstrom's black hole, Thanos with the IG) and FAILS to do ANYTHING vs truly multiversal threats (Protege, HotI).
If you believe so, but thank goodness most people don't believe your nonsense. When the Phoenix Force can prevent a fight between beings that ended and restarted two megaverses just by clenching his hand, you'll have something. And then that other time when just his mere M-body wanted to fight with the supreme being of the 616 and the supreme being of that reality backed down because he was afraid he destroy some dimension that he could easily fix seeing as he was the master of space, time, reality, soul, mind, and even power.
Who'd Phoenix fight again? Necrom? Hahahaha. Bubonicus? Hahaha. Galactus? lmao
