Jedi, who died and made them god?

Started by Archangelysses7 pages
Archangelysses Senior Member

Actually, the "Jedi" never proclaimed to be super heroes. The galaxy/republic placed the chore of being protectors onto them because 90% of people do not want to make their own decisions.

This is reflected every day in nearly every country in the world as well as in the fictional universe of GL's making. People like to be sheep, they like to be told what to do and how to do it as thinking for themselves takes too much effort. It also gives them the hypocritical ability to point and blame someone else for their own stupidity in not taking responsibility for their own actions.

The jedi never purported to be unbeatable or omniscient and actually tried to steer clear of trouble.

AND THEY ONLY WENT TO MEDIATE AT REQUEST of other people. Never did they make the choice to interfere themselves, they were invited at the various governments requests to assist in the mediation process.

this thread mentioned yin and yang and balance, then of all the jedi come far closer to spiritual balance (Which is the basis of Yin Yang core belief and of the wheel of life) than most people fictional or not.

Yet, it seems here that quite a few of you are angry at the Jedi, why?

Could it be that you saw them as superpeople and in doing so elevated them onto a pedestal and placed on them your own belief that they should be infallible because they have power/ability that you do not.

Then in effect when they fall, when they are toppled, you are angry because how could someone which you feel is better than you (You placed them on the pedestal and attributed godlike omniscience to them, no one did that for you) it contradicts your own belief in them and therefore you are angry because your view of the world/galaxy has just been turned upside down and you don't like it.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

Originally posted by Sesse
Yea... And the decision to "save" jar jar was without any reason!

Qui Gon: "We need a navigator to get through the planet's core. This gungan might be of a help".

5 minutes passes...

Jarjar: "Where are wesa going?"
Qui Gon: "The force will guide us."

DUH! 😠

A Jedi will never sit back and allow one to die. Besides without Jar Jar Naboo would have never been saved.

KingDubya Mainstream Indie Rocker

Originally posted by Soren the Mage
As hilarious as that was, i feel i need to critisize it.

It is a known fact that the Jedi play the Self-proclaimed Super heroes. And yes, alot of us do know better than the jedi, because we aren't using our lightsabers to butt into everyones sodding business, are we? The Jedi are weak little sissy boys. They need a damned army to take care of their business?


They need the army since their force alone would not be enough to defeat an almost inexhaustible (that means unending) droid army. Do you really expect each Jedi to be able to take on almost a thousand droids each? At the same time!?
Originally posted by Soren the Mage
Since they are oh so knowledgable and wise, why don't they just spawn more Jedi? What, they don't deal out the effort to train freakin' Jedi anymore? Oh wait, i remember now.... YOU HAVE TO BE A F*CKING CHOSEN ONE TO BECOME A HALF-DECENT JEDI! Or wait.... MAYBE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MIDICHLORIANS MIGHT HELP!!!!?!??

The thing is, most people in the known galaxy don't have the midichorians within them to be able to manipulate the Force. Of the few that do, maybe less than half of them are ever discovered; if it weren't for the emergency landing on Tatooine, the Council would've never found Anakin.
Originally posted by Soren the Mage
For christs sake, wake up. All the Jedi do is ramble on about how dangerous their Jedi are. Maybe if they weren't such a pompous ******* to Anakin and let him do some missions and grant him rank of master (which he damned well deserved) then maybe he would'nt have became Darth Vader and maybe he wouldn't have slaughtered thousands or blown a handful of planets up.

He was put on the council only because Palpatine asked of it, but he wasn't given the rank of master because his emotions clouded his judgement. His love for Padme and anger at the enemies of the Republic would cause him to make irrational decisions that could put the Republic in even more danger.
Originally posted by Soren the Mage
Mace: Sorry Anakin, we do not grant you the rank of master because you had your personal opinion.
Anakin: That's pretty shitty.
Mace: BUT you can hop aboard the council.
Anakin: What does that help? Didn't i just finish bitching about how much i hate politics and countless babble?
Mace: That's why we do not grant you a master.
Anakin: THEN WHY SHOVE ME ON THE COUNCIL, YOU DUMB SHIT?!!?
Mace: Oh my lord... You are growing too angry, my son! Normal human emotions aren't allowed in the Jedi. Did i mention that includes love?
Anakin:ACK! SCREW YOU!

Ummm... Palpatine asked for Anakin's placement on the Jedi Council, so they didn't "shove" him onto it. As I said earlier, he wasn't given the rank of master due to the emotions that would cloud his judgement (as they did when he slaughtered younglings).
Originally posted by Soren the Mage
Anakin: Oh hey Mace. Where you headed?
Mace: To place Palpatine under arrest!
Anakin: Can i come with you?
Mace: No, you stay here and sit on your ass and wait.
Anakin: Why can't i come?
Mace: This mission is far too dangerous for such a weak Jedi like you. Sorry, son.
Anakin:Wait until i chop your friggin wrists off, assface!
Mace: What was that?
Anakin: I coughed, stupid. I'll just sit here and get more mad.
Mace: No problem, just try not to become the most dangerous Sith Lord ever because of me, hey?
Anakin: What?
Mace: Just a cough, Any, just a cough.
Anakin: Whatever, ******.

They didn't take Anakin along because of his friendship with Palpatine. This would endanger the mission, as it did later on. They never implied that he was weak, but that his emotions would prevent him from striking down Palpatine or would cause him to stop the arrest, as he later did.

Tangible God Lets all love Lain

Why are people bumping and responding to year old posts of members who have been baned?

Captain REX Networking

It's alright as long as they have something to contribute. ✅

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

I would say that a lot of Jedi do abuse their powers at times. Obi-Wan being an example.

Elan Sleazebaggano: You wanna buy some death sticks?
Obi-Wan: [using the Jedi mind trick] You don't want to sell me death sticks.
Elan Sleazebaggano: I don't want to sell you death sticks.
Obi-Wan: You want to go home and rethink your life.
Elan Sleazebaggano: I want to go home and rethink my life.

maybe he was doing it for the guy's own good but it still messed with his free will.

As for Qui-Gon. I actualy think he was wiser then people gave him credit for. Yes he was a little reckless. But when you think about it. What Jedi wasn't. Mace confronting Palatine could seem reckless. So could Obi-Wan following Jango Fett in Episode 2. I can see why he would follow him. But to actualy follow him to the surface. Instead he should have found a nice hiding spot in space and then sent his message to the Republic. Mace coming in with an army of Jedi to save 3 people was also reckless. Just think how many lives would have been saved if he had not gone. Yoda going after Palpatine alone was also reckless. Though I am sure he felt like he had to try to do something.

Qui-Gon was a different kind of jedi then the others. He was a student of the force. He believed the force had a will and was always guiding him. In our terms this is known as destiny. He let the force guide his actions. And perhaps he was correct in all this. What if he had not been killed? If he had train Anakin then perhaps Anakin would not have turned to the dark side. Who was the one person he trusted less then his mother but more then Palpatine? The answer is most likly Qui-Gon. I do not want this to turn into a debate. When I hear the word jedi I think these 4 people. OT Luke, OT Yoda, PT Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon.

Tangible God Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
I would say that a lot of Jedi do abuse their powers at times. Obi-Wan being an example.

Elan Sleazebaggano: You wanna buy some death sticks?
Obi-Wan: [using the Jedi mind trick] You don't want to sell me death sticks.
Elan Sleazebaggano: I don't want to sell you death sticks.
Obi-Wan: You want to go home and rethink your life.
Elan Sleazebaggano: I want to go home and rethink my life.

maybe he was doing it for the guy's own good but it still messed with his free will.

As for Qui-Gon. I actualy think he was wiser then people gave him credit for. Yes he was a little reckless. But when you think about it. What Jedi wasn't. Mace confronting Palatine could seem reckless. So could Obi-Wan following Jango Fett in Episode 2. I can see why he would follow him. But to actualy follow him to the surface. Instead he should have found a nice hiding spot in space and then sent his message to the Republic. Mace coming in with an army of Jedi to save 3 people was also reckless. Just think how many lives would have been saved if he had not gone. Yoda going after Palpatine alone was also reckless. Though I am sure he felt like he had to try to do something.

Qui-Gon was a different kind of jedi then the others. He was a student of the force. He believed the force had a will and was always guiding him. In our terms this is known as destiny. He let the force guide his actions. And perhaps he was correct in all this. What if he had not been killed? If he had train Anakin then perhaps Anakin would not have turned to the dark side. Who was the one person he trusted less then his mother but more then Palpatine? The answer is most likly Qui-Gon. I do not want this to turn into a debate. When I hear the word jedi I think these 4 people. OT Luke, OT Yoda, PT Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon.

Yes, Qui-Gon did seem to be the more wiser of the masters at the time, at Yoda's level and the like.

But as to Obi-Wan mindtricking Elan Sleazebaggano, a Jedi can interfere with a person's life it stops that person from living a life of deprevity and crime. And from what I've read on deathsticks, it saved his life as well. Jedi interfere with lives all the time, but you'll notice their intention, and often the outcome, are for an improvement on the current situation.

Ushgarak Paladin

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
I would say that a lot of Jedi do abuse their powers at times. Obi-Wan being an example.

Elan Sleazebaggano: You wanna buy some death sticks?
Obi-Wan: [using the Jedi mind trick] You don't want to sell me death sticks.
Elan Sleazebaggano: I don't want to sell you death sticks.
Obi-Wan: You want to go home and rethink your life.
Elan Sleazebaggano: I want to go home and rethink my life.

maybe he was doing it for the guy's own good but it still messed with his free will.

Free will?

Did it not occur to you that those things were illegal and that by rights Obi-Wan should have arrested the guy?

Don't you think what Obi-Wan did was better for all?

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

Who is to say what is better? I myself smoke cigerettes. When I am out in public and someone says i should not smoke I feel like slapping them. It is my right to smoke. Just like it was that guy's right to smoke and sell death sticks. For all you know those death sticks could have been some sort of cigar or something. The point is he messes with his free will. That is something that no one has the right to do. Even if it is for someone's own good. What gives the Jedi the right to mess with someone's mind just cause he thinks it is what is good for them? This is a classic example of how some of the jedi have come to think they are better then others.

overlord OD'd

Jesus Christ.. Just cut the crap.. I know what you are saying..
You are trying to say: what gives a jedi the right to police the universe.

Tangible God Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Who is to say what is better? I myself smoke cigerettes. When I am out in public and someone says i should not smoke I feel like slapping them. It is my right to smoke. Just like it was that guy's right to smoke and sell death sticks. For all you know those death sticks could have been some sort of cigar or something. The point is he messes with his free will. That is something that no one has the right to do. Even if it is for someone's own good. What gives the Jedi the right to mess with someone's mind just cause he thinks it is what is good for them? This is a classic example of how some of the jedi have come to think they are better then others.
This sounds like an anti-American statement, except it's about Jedi.

The man was selling and likely doing an illegal narcotic which shortened someone's lifespan every time they used it. Obi-Wan tricking the man into giving up such a lifestyle can hardly be called wrong.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

Originally posted by Tangible God
This sounds like an anti-American statement, except it's about Jedi.

The man was selling and likely doing an illegal narcotic which shortened someone's lifespan every time they used it. Obi-Wan tricking the man into giving up such a lifestyle can hardly be called wrong.

What do you mean Anti-American? I am american. I am sticking up for free will. The free will that all people are entitled too. Yes he was living a bad life style. But it was his life style to live. Free Will is about letting people make their own choices. While their choices might be the wrong ones, it is still there choice to make.

Tangible God Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
What do you mean Anti-American? I am american. I am sticking up for free will. The free will that all people are entitled too. Yes he was living a bad life style. But it was his life style to live. Free Will is about letting people make their own choices. While their choices might be the wrong ones, it is still there choice to make.
It's anti-American in that many countries and even many Americans feel that the United States thinks they're better than everyone and want to police the world. Your statement sounded like something those countries would say.

So if someone uses and deals heroine or cocaine, illegal substances by the way, it would be wrong for a police officer or friend or whoever, to convince them to stop, even if it meant tieing them to a chair to do it? Most people with an ounce of common-sense or logic see this as necessary, appropriate, and a kind thing to do, since it got them to stop doing things which will eventually kill them and/or get them tossed in jail.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

Trying to convince someone to stop and forcing them to stop are two different things. When someone tries to convince someone to stop doing something. They are still leaving them the choice of doing it or not.

Tieing them to a chair however would be wrong. You would be forcing them to stop against there own will. That there is wrong. Also I think tieing someone down to a chair against there own will is against the law.

Obi-Wan never even gave him a choice, He just used the force to manipulate his mind. That is worse then tieing them down to chair. It is just one of the signs that the jedi think they know what is best for everyone.

A bigger example is Mace thinking it was his place to arrest the chancellor. The jedi were protecters yes. But last time I checked they were not Republic Police Officers.

Tangible God Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Trying to convince someone to stop and forcing them to stop are two different things. When someone tries to convince someone to stop doing something. They are still leaving them the choice of doing it or not.

Tieing them to a chair however would be wrong. You would be forcing them to stop against there own will. That there is wrong. Also I think tieing someone down to a chair against there own will is against the law.

Obi-Wan never even gave him a choice, He just used the force to manipulate his mind. That is worse then tieing them down to chair. It is just one of the signs that the jedi think they know what is best for everyone.

A bigger example is Mace thinking it was his place to arrest the chancellor. The jedi were protecters yes. But last time I checked they were not Republic Police Officers.

Jesus Christ man, you go far enough and you'll be talking about Anarachism.

So let me get this straight: It was wrong of Mace Windu, one of the leading Jedi Masters of the Jedi Order--the sworn protectors and guardians of the Republic, to go and arrest the Chancellor, A.K.A. Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith, Mastermind of the devastating Clone Wars, Last of the Sith Order--the sworn mortal enemies of the Jedi and the Republic.

It was wrong for Mace to try and bring him to justice?

By your reasoning it's wrong to force someone to go to jail, just because it's against their "free will." In a world where your policies play out, I just have to kill someone and say to the arresting officers:

"Hey, your not the police of the world, you have no right to bring me in. It's against my will to go with you. It's against my will to put down the gun. It's against my will to not aim at you. And it is my God-given right to pull the trigger."

Try to understand that when it comes to breaking the law, which a coke dealer/addict (or in this case a deathstick dealer/addict) does, it is the duty and responsibilty of the police, guardians and protectors of the law and society to make them stop. And if it means making them stop against their will, so be it.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

It was the fact that Mace took it apon himself to do so. Remember Palpatine was still the leader of the republic. By law he should have went by the proper channels and stuff to arrest him. Hell his intention was never to arrest him. His intention was to kill him. Last time I check assinated the leader of a government was against the law.

As for Obi-Wan. If he had the authority to arrest the man. He should have done so. I know he was currently busy and did not have time to. But using the force to mess with his mind would not be the answer. It is a lot different then arresting them. At least when you arrest someone they can try to put up a fight. That is their choice to try to do that. Just as it is their right to cooperate with them. So they still have free will. Using the force to make someone do something takes away that ability to choose.

Lord Saboteur Utinni!

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
It was the fact that Mace took it apon himself to do so. Remember Palpatine was still the leader of the republic. By law he should have went by the proper channels and stuff to arrest him. Hell his intention was never to arrest him. His intention was to kill him. Last time I check assinated the leader of a government was against the law.
Wrong. Mace's intention was to arrest Palpatine, but was pushed into the thought process that Sidious would fight for his life and had to die when he shot the lightning at Windu.

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
As for Obi-Wan. If he had the authority to arrest the man. He should have done so. I know he was currently busy and did not have time to. But using the force to mess with his mind would not be the answer. It is a lot different then arresting them. At least when you arrest someone they can try to put up a fight. That is their choice to try to do that. Just as it is their right to cooperate with them. So they still have free will. Using the force to make someone do something takes away that ability to choose.
Read what Tangible said, he's got it right.

Ushgarak Paladin
Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Who is to say what is better? I myself smoke cigerettes. When I am out in public and someone says i should not smoke I feel like slapping them. It is my right to smoke. Just like it was that guy's right to smoke and sell death sticks. For all you know those death sticks could have been some sort of cigar or something. The point is he messes with his free will. That is something that no one has the right to do. Even if it is for someone's own good. What gives the Jedi the right to mess with someone's mind just cause he thinks it is what is good for them? This is a classic example of how some of the jedi have come to think they are better then others.

But cigarettes aren't illegal! It is not your right to do or sell heroin. Obi-Wan could eother have locked that guy up, or he made sure he wouldn;t do it again. If you truly think the second is immoral then you are a pretty hopeless case.

TheBalance The Answer, The Reason

Re: Jedi, who died and made them god?

Originally posted by spekdah
Why is it that the republic is supposed to be a democracy and the Jedi , for some reason, have obviously nominated themselves the enforcers of it?
I mean, you got this huge Galactic Republic right and its purpose is to ( I gather) serve the greater good of the galaxy and handle all dealings to do with trade, negotiations,economy etc... but the Jedi apparently know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil and therefore take it upon themselves to settle disputes and any other issues that may involve potential violence or aggression. I get the feeling they see themselves as self appointed heroes or leaders simply because a middicloriean said so.
They say the Jedi were the guardians of peace an justice for over a 1000 yrs and yet in all that time they couldnt even take a trip out to the outer rim systems to outlaw slavery on places such as tatooine? whatssamatta? no oil to drill out there?

THe Jedi say the reason there is no " army of the republic " is because it would be too much power for one person ( chancellor ) to have and therefore dangerous.
Whereas wouldnt it be more preferable to say that we need an army of the republic because its too dangerous having these 10,000 dudes walking around with abilities beyond most normal people ( think - mind control, levitation, manipulation, seeing the future etc...) waving dangerous - ass lightsabres making decisions for the galaxy based on what a microscopic organism says?

A classic example is Qui Gon Jin, now this guys takes the cake when it comes to Jedi flouting their powers. In one episode he manages to mind trick and manipulate his way round the galaxy with scoring free subs from Gungins to saving Jar Jar from punishment which inevitably ( in EP2) leads to emergency powers to the Chancellor to form an army of the Repubic, to convincing the queen to land on Tatooine for repairs which leads to the discovery of Anakin which really f**ks the republic up, not to mention trying to mind trick his way to some ship parts with worthless republic credits to flouting the Jedi code and taking on Anakin as a padawan when he already has an apprentice....etc etc
I mean this guy is supposed to be a Jedi for gods sake and he's done nothing but use his powers to influence what HE believes the midicloreans are saying to him.
Yoda admits that there are " reckless" Jedi, even Jedi masters and if they are 10,000 strong then there's bound to be heaps of "reckless" Jedi which would have to be a concern considering the powers they have.
If you look at it the Jedi really rule by fear.

Why do we do it? because the midicloreans said so! What if we dont do it? you'll a lightsabre up your ass!

That pretty much sums it up doesnt it?

F*ck You!
You Have No Clue Do You?

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

First off. Mace went with the intention to kill Palpatine. Who drew their lightsaber first? Mace or Palpatine? Who activated their lightsaber first? Mace or Palpatine?

As for the death stick dealer. Illegal or not. He uses the force to mess with his mind. He did not give the man a choice on if he wanted to rethink his life or not. Free will is the ability to make choices. Some people make good choices and some people make bad choices. But it is still there choice to make. If someone makes a bad choice and breaks the law. Then they get arrested. But it was still their choice to break the law.

The freedom to choose is one of the principles that America was founded on. The freedom to choose is my right as an American. It is a right I refuse to give up. It is a right I will stick up for until the day I die.