Jedi, who died and made them god?

Well everyone is right here, it just depends on how you look at it. You are all arguing from the point of Obi-Wan. He did what was best for Elan, and possibly helped him give up a dangerous habit. This in turn could prevent danger on the wider community. So you are right in all aspects of your argument.

However I am looking at it from the point of Elan. He got his mind messed with by Obi-Wan, got forced to do something that he had no intention of doing, and because of this got his rights removed. Also Obi-Wan only knew the guy for literally about 3 seconds, hardly enough time to make a rational decision, even if he does have use of the force. So everyone is right, from a certain point of view...

I agree with you Ox. I have looked at it from all points of view. I can understand why Obi-Wan did it. On the other hand if I look on Elan's point of view, he forced him to go do something. To go home and rethink his life was a choice he needed to make on his own.

I also like to look at it from a spectater's view. Obi-Wan was sitting down at the bar, waiting for Anakin to catch the bounty hunter. As soon as he sit's down Elan ask him if he wants to buy death sticks. Almost immediatly Obi-Wan uses the mind trick on him. If anything, Obi-Wan looked more annoyed then anything. It looked like he did it so the guy would stop annoying him.

Also I would like to point out the Miranda Rights is valid in the Valid in the entire USA. The orginal case that decided that just happened to take place Arizona.

Look at it from Charles Manson's point of view. He got forced into a squad car, made to stand trial, and forced to go to prison. The poor guy got all his rights taken away.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Well everyone is right here, it just depends on how you look at it. You are all arguing from the point of Obi-Wan. He did what was best for Elan, and possibly helped him give up a dangerous habit. This in turn could prevent danger on the wider community. So you are right in all aspects of your argument.

However I am looking at it from the point of Elan. He got his mind messed with by Obi-Wan, got forced to do something that he had no intention of doing, and because of this got his rights removed. Also Obi-Wan only knew the guy for literally about 3 seconds, hardly enough time to make a rational decision, even if he does have use of the force. So everyone is right, from a certain point of view...

You have to look at the argument from both sides overlord. You clearly see it from the point of Obi-Wan. But I do not. However I think everyone has said all there is to say.

Hahahahaha. That last comment is the most hypocritical thing I have read in a long time. Well done.

As Capt Rex and I both stated earlier

Why are your squabbling over 1 instance - where is your comments/attacks on the other uses of the power as previously put forth

Originally posted by Rampant ox
You have to look at the argument from both sides overlord. You clearly see it from the point of Obi-Wan. But I do not. However I think everyone has said all there is to say.

Hahahahaha. That last comment is the most hypocritical thing I have read in a long time. Well done.

Alright why not vote

1 Qui Gon jinn - Boss Nass - - - - Justified Yes/No
2 Qui Gon Jinn - Watto - - - - Justified Yes/No
3 Qui Gon Jinn - Roll of dice - - - -Justified Yes/No (albeit a little different
But still related to loss of free will)
4 Obi Wan Kenobi - Elan Sleazebaggano - - - - Justified Yes/No
5 Anakin Skywalker - Zam Wessell - - - - Justified Yes/No
6 Palpatine - Anakin Skywalker - - - -Possibly no use of force power but
still he did still basically trick him
6 Obi Wan Kenobi - Tusken Raiders - - - - Justified Yes/No
7 Obi Wan Kenobi - Stormtroopers - - - - Justified Yes/No
8 Obi Wan Kenobi - Stormtroopers (DS) - - - -Justified Yes/No
9 Luke Skywalker - Bib FOrtuna - - - - - Justified Yes/No
10 Luke Skywalker - Jabba - - - - Justified Yes/No

You keep arguing one event, what about the other nine. If you want to prove your point then use some of these other events to prove it. Your continual bashing on the one point when there is so much more evidence at hand to either disprove or prove what you say.

Otherwise you are only arguing for the sake of arguing. Which shows again an anti social, disruptive, anarchaic nature.

Originally posted by overlord
Uhmm.. [b]No.
You're trying to act like a retard. It's pretty easy to say that I'm only looking at it from Obi Wan's perspective but it's Elan who gets lucky. That's what I'm trying to say. There's nothing wrong with making him think and now you will shut up about this nonsense. [/B]

We are are perfectly willing to shut up. However if you keep dishing out insults to us, we will just keep going on. Everyone has said all there is to say on this subject. We all have our opinions on this matter but once again it is just fiction. I just happen to get a tad upset when someones rights are violated. To me it does not matter if it is fact or fiction. In paticuler when it comes to star wars. The world of Star Wars reflects our world in so many ways. Lucas uses many elements from our world in the star wars universe. The war of the Rebellion vs The Empire is very much like the Revolutionary War. For those that do not know what that is, look it up. If you examine the movies close enough you will discover many other things that will remind you of things have have either happened in the past here on Earth, or what is currently going on. Which is often the case with of the prequals.

There are sometimes cops who take it apon themselves to punish criminals. Which as we know usualy results in them loosing their job or worse. Despite Obi-Wan's good intentions, he forced Elan to go home and rethink his life. The choice to rethink ones life should be that person's choice. This is a choice that Elan was denied.

We will never know the exact authority the jedi have on law enforcement. So there is little point on debating on it.

Originally posted by Archangelysses
Alright why not vote

1 Qui Gon jinn - Boss Nass - - - - Justified Yes/No
2 Qui Gon Jinn - Watto - - - - Justified Yes/No
3 Qui Gon Jinn - Roll of dice - - - -Justified Yes/No (albeit a little different
But still related to loss of free will)
4 Obi Wan Kenobi - Elan Sleazebaggano - - - - Justified Yes/No
5 Anakin Skywalker - Zam Wessell - - - - Justified Yes/No
6 Palpatine - Anakin Skywalker - - - -Possibly no use of force power but
still he did still basically trick him
6 Obi Wan Kenobi - Tusken Raiders - - - - Justified Yes/No
7 Obi Wan Kenobi - Stormtroopers - - - - Justified Yes/No
8 Obi Wan Kenobi - Stormtroopers (DS) - - - -Justified Yes/No
9 Luke Skywalker - Bib FOrtuna - - - - - Justified Yes/No
10 Luke Skywalker - Jabba - - - - Justified Yes/No

You keep arguing one event, what about the other nine. If you want to prove your point then use some of these other events to prove it. Your continual bashing on the one point when there is so much more evidence at hand to either disprove or prove what you say.

Otherwise you are only arguing for the sake of arguing. Which shows again an anti social, disruptive, anarchaic nature.

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
We are are perfectly willing to shut up. However if you keep dishing out insults to us, we will just keep going on. Everyone has said all there is to say on this subject. We all have our opinions on this matter but once again it is just fiction. I just happen to get a tad upset when someones rights are violated. To me it does not matter if it is fact or fiction. In paticuler when it comes to star wars. The world of Star Wars reflects our world in so many ways. Lucas uses many elements from our world in the star wars universe. The war of the Rebellion vs The Empire is very much like the Revolutionary War. For those that do not know what that is, look it up. If you examine the movies close enough you will discover many other things that will remind you of things have have either happened in the past here on Earth, or what is currently going on. Which is often the case with of the prequals.

There are sometimes cops who take it apon themselves to punish criminals. Which as we know usualy results in them loosing their job or worse. Despite Obi-Wan's good intentions, he forced Elan to go home and rethink his life. The choice to rethink ones life should be that person's choice. This is a choice that Elan was denied.

We will never know the exact authority the jedi have on law enforcement. So there is little point on debating on it.

OMG!! He didn't have the chance to choose for thinking or no thinking! I know some people are able to go through life without thinking but it would be better if we would all think really good before acting. Especially stuff involving crime!

I wasn't saying he was jedi, just using it as another point towards Jam Jul and Rampant.

If they want to argue elan, then argue against all those uses, I am sure if you look closely there was far more violating in some of the other cases. Funny how those two still choose to ignore all these other points and focus on the drug dealer case though

"We are perfectly willing to shut up"

all evidence to the contrary

1 Qui Gon jinn - Boss Nass - - - - Justified Yes- He needed to get to theed to rescue the queen. not to mention he could not just let Jar Jar die.
2 Qui Gon Jinn - Watto - - - - Justified Yes-He needed to get the queen back to corucant. It concerned her safety and the fate of a whole world.
3 Qui Gon Jinn - Roll of dice - - - -Justified Yes (albeit a little different
But still related to loss of free will)-He believed Anakin to be the chosan one and believed he needed to be trained as a jedi.
4 Obi Wan Kenobi - Elan Sleazebaggano - - - - Justified No- He only knew Elan for 3 seconds. All he knew was he was a male and that he was selling death sticks. It looked like to me that Elan was just annoying him.
5 Anakin Skywalker - Zam Wessell - - - - Justified Yes/No-Can not answer this cause I am not sure who this is.
6 Palpatine - Anakin Skywalker - - - -Possibly no use of force power but
still he did still basically trick him- I am sure Palpatine felt his reasons were justified but in reality they were not.
6 Obi Wan Kenobi - Tusken Raiders - - - - Justified Yes- It was to save Luke's life. Also please note he did not use a mind trick. He a jedi technique to make that noice which he knew would scare them. They choose to run.
7 Obi Wan Kenobi - Stormtroopers - - - - Justified Yes- It was vital for the safety of the universe that he do this. Remember R2 had the death star plans
8 Obi Wan Kenobi - Stormtroopers (DS) - - - -Justified Yes- It was vital for the safety of the universe that he do this. Remember R2 had the death star plans.
9 Luke Skywalker - Bib FOrtuna - - - - - Justified Yes- It was neccesary to Rescue Han.
10 Luke Skywalker - Jabba - - - - Justified Yes- It was neccesary to Rescue Han.

1 - He needed to get to Theed hmmm. Thats alright enough to subjugate the rightful ruler of the gunguns and choose for him. Because that is what qui gon did. Not just force someone to THINK but to think for him. Yet you say that action is justified. Boss Nass was ruler of the Gunguns. Rightful ruler. ANd he got Mindf***ed completely. Not only did he have no choice at all, it was chosen for him and forced on him.

To compare to Elan, then Obi Wan would have had to have said - Give up selling deathsticks right now and go and help people. One was told to think and the other told exactly what the thought should be

That's funny, Jam Jul only finds the thing with Elan not justified and the one the sith lord pulled.

2 - Attempting to force someone to accept money that is worthless in that area and you say justified.

To put in to you then in this regard. Maybe I should find a drug dealer and force him to accept monopoly money as I really really need them for pain relief Justified???

3, I believe my brother should be a millionaire and I should be able to retire and write for a living so I should take my brother to the casino and have the dice come up 7 when I want it to

5 Anakin Skywalker - Zam Wessell. Bounty hunter that they followed to the club where Elan was. Anakin when he said tell us was actually using the force to "force" her to talk. That is why her voice becomes so strained as she was basically being made to talk when she did not want to.

Would that not be a misuse of power - so much for right to remain silent. Not that miranda rights exist in that universe

6 still tricked them though. Maybe I should get a recording of a cobra hissing, and a taxidermied snake and place them next to someone while they are sleeping.

Actually the hilarity of that would be justified. LOL