DP
PunyGod I love the name.
ty
DP
Yes but does that mean it didn't happen? It does fill the gap in between the scenes we see.Perhaps if Lucas decided to film that scene then then he would have added something for that to make sense e.g. The Emperor leaps to another pod before Yoda can strike him down.
The script implies that Yoda is faster still than Sidious, armed, and deflecting the Force lightning. What you're suggesting is that a slower, unarmed, weaker Sidious managed to elude Yoda in close quarters combat and put tremendous distance between the two of them without Yoda immediately pursuing. That appears to me to be an irreconcilable contradiction. Not to mention the script doesn't account for Sidious's travel from the Chancellor's podium to the distant Senate pod; after the two clash blades, the fight is interrupted by Anakin's duel with Obi-Wan. When it returns, Sidious has already abandoned the podium and has taken position on a platform, with Yoda finishing his leap from the podium in pursuit. The script, on the other hand, depicts Yoda fleeing and Sidious remaining on the podium.
DP
Well I would question that statement simply because the movie showed Yoda withstanding Sidious's Sith powers did it not? Yoda just fell further. I wouldn't think that was anything to do with being less powerful.
He withstood the Emperor's Sith powers by falling? Perhaps the writers are cleverer than we thought. Cheeky bastards. mmm
DP
No, but he had lost at that point. He took a huge fall and considering both the AOTC novel and script state Yoda was exhausted after his little tumble with Count Dooku, I'm sure he would have been more than exhausted with his all out against a more powerful Sith Lord.
Precisely, the point being that one need not necessarily be an inferior duelist to opt for a tactical retreat.
DP
Which is why I believe the script version of the fight. That and the fact it describes a scene in between the ones we see, so explains how the fight got there.
I submit that Sidious could have been disarmed without relying on the script's flawed representation of events.
DP
^ There's no doubt Yoda failed. However that doesn't mean he wasn't a superior combatant.
The context of his discussion with spirit!Qui-Gon is what's important to examine: it begins with a lament for his failure to defeat Sidious and Qui-Gon consoles him by assuring Yoda that he'll achieve a power greater than any JediSith. Contextually, it would appear that Yoda felt he lacked the power to end the Sith threat.
SM
At no point does that reference Yoda being inferior to Sidious in saber combat, which was the point in contention.
me
I don't dispute the idea that Yoda's lightsaber prowess exceeded the Emperor's.
me
I have absolutely no problem with the idea that Yoda overcame Sidious blade-to-blade, since one is a confirmed master of all 7 forms (The Complete Clone Wars Encyclopedia) and the other isn't known to have touched a lightsaber in over a decade.
There is no contention on that subject; what's being discussed is the degree to which Yoda enjoys superiority.
SM
Everything we know about the fight, from the frame-by-frame captures I showed to the script which framed the fight to the original computerized behind-the-scenes from the Blu-Ray all lead us to conclude one thing: on neutral ground, Sidious didn't have a snowball's chance in hell at defeating Yoda in saber combat.
LucasFilm employees (and authors of the various guides and supplementary material released since) would disagree with what you claim to be a painfully obvious conclusion. Given that they have very likely seen ROTS, have access to at least as much information as ourselves, and are examined and edited thoroughly by LucasFilm authorities (such as Leland Chee or Sue Rostini, editor-in-chief), I remain skeptical.
SM
What you're attempting to do here (poorly, I might add) is cast some kind of doubt on this by using selected sources to support the idea of "defeat = Yoda's inferiority". That argument cannot be sustained. Yoda is conclusively superior to Sidious in saber combat, and moreover as we saw also in the film, superior in Force usage.
What you're attempting to do here (poorly, I might add) is assert yourself as a higher authority than the very people who are employed by LucasFilm to define and explore the universe created by George Lucas, which is an argument that cannot be sustained unless your driver's license says George Lucas.
SM
From a position of complete disadvantage, Yoda turned the lightning around on Sidious utterly.
With extreme effort and physical pain, and even then was still hurled aside like a wrinkly green scrotum squeezed into a burlap condom.
SM
The pod throwing contest ended in Sidious fleeing from an upwards-shot pod rather than exert any Force power to deflect or stop it himself.
He was also laughing into the back of his hand moments prior, too amused to even capitalize on his advantage during Yoda's preoccupation.
SM
The implications are very strong that Sidious can only win this fight by tactical advantage and dirty tricks, as Yoda is his superior.
Given that he knocked Yoda unconscious, laughed at him at various points, and conclusively disarmed him rather casually, I submit that the implication is what is reflected in the film and subsequent EU material: Sidious outclasses Yoda.
SM
Confirmation of reference materials which themselves derive answers from primary canon material of victory are not conclusively proving of skill.
Interesting that you concede the reference materials derive their answers from primary canon material... yet neglect the part that their conclusion differs from the one you offer. Doesn't that suggest you're wrong?
SM
After all, Richard I died of a crossbow-bolt during a siege. In a neutral setting, the peasant who fired the shot would be utterly destroyed by the king; why would we assume their skill levels are "close" or some such simply by virtue of a generalization?
If the reference guides' assertion of victory are situational, I would agree.
SM
The answer is we wouldn't. The G-canon material clearly shows Sidious being overmatched.
According to you. According to canon sources, he was not.
SM
An attempt to "spin" that in another direction is merely a confirmation of bias against all reason.
I realize you suffer from a chronic condition that compels you to rabidly accuse others of bias, conspiracy, and general dishonesty whenever they disagree with you, but try to leash your insecurity plz.