Originally posted by Dizzle
I'd say IG... Its well above every abstract in Marvel but LT... Infinite power is not to be messed with...
In FF recently it said Phoenix was responsible for the creation of all the incarnations of abstracts such as Eternity and infinity in the multiverse. The Phoenix created all life within the multiverse it is the primal force of creation. The Infinity Gems give ultimate control of a universe that is why when Thanos defeated eternity he went on to take eternitys role and became the universe personified. The most powerful being within Marvel is LT the phoenix not being an entity unto its self but the collective consciousness of all of the avatars is the most powerful force as stated in uncanny xmen 137. This fact has never been retconned.
Jean would take this. The M'kraan crystal was more powerful than the infinity gauntlet and jean dealt with it.
what's this, galacticstorm weighing in on a PF thread?? i can't believe it . . .
hehe
by the way, i've no idea here, because i don't know the full scope of IG's power. if it's powers work in all universes like they do in OUR universe, then it may have a shot. if not, it's just another univsersal artifact and can't touch the full PF.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In FF recently it said Phoenix was responsible for the creation of all the incarnations of abstracts such as Eternity and infinity in the multiverse. The Phoenix created all life within the multiverse it is the primal force of creation. The Infinity Gems give ultimate control of a universe that is why when Thanos defeated eternity he went on to take eternitys role and became the universe personified. The most powerful being within Marvel is LT the phoenix not being an entity unto its self but the collective consciousness of all of the avatars is the most powerful force as stated in uncanny xmen 137. This fact has never been retconned.Jean would take this. The M'kraan crystal was more powerful than the infinity gauntlet and jean dealt with it.
IG slapped Eternity, Death, Mephisto, Galactus, Celestials, Chaos, Order, etc.
It had three mini series of it's own which crossed over into FF, Spiderman, X-Men, Avengers, Infinity Watched, etc.
Whatever happened in FF doesn't prove much. When all is said and done - the IG has proven to be more powerful.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In FF recently it said Phoenix was responsible for the creation of all the incarnations of abstracts such as Eternity and infinity in the multiverse. The Phoenix created all life within the multiverse it is the primal force of creation. The Infinity Gems give ultimate control of a universe that is why when Thanos defeated eternity he went on to take eternitys role and became the universe personified. The most powerful being within Marvel is LT the phoenix not being an entity unto its self but the collective consciousness of all of the avatars is the most powerful force as stated in uncanny xmen 137. This fact has never been retconned.Jean would take this. The M'kraan crystal was more powerful than the infinity gauntlet and jean dealt with it.
PF had to obey LT , because he was going to destory the universe.
Originally posted by leonidas
by the way, i've no idea here, because i don't know the full scope of IG's power. if it's powers work in all universes like they do in OUR universe, then it may have a shot. if not, it's just another univsersal artifact and can't touch the full PF.
Well, in the JLA vs. Avengers crossover, Darkseid acquired the IG, but discarded it when it proved to be powerless in the DC universe. I'm not sure if that completely counts as both IG and Phoenix Force are a part of Marvel.
Originally posted by Beyonder
IG slapped Eternity, Death, Mephisto, Galactus, Celestials, Chaos, Order, etc.It had three mini series of it's own which crossed over into FF, Spiderman, X-Men, Avengers, Infinity Watched, etc.
Whatever happened in FF doesn't prove much. When all is said and done - the IG has proven to be more powerful.
At the end of the day in uncanny xmen 137 phoenix was said to be second in power only to the creator. Phoenix was also said to be THE primal force of creation in marvel. This was prior to IG sagas
In Xmen Forever Eternity says that the Phoenix is the force that ends everything and then creates life again. This was after IG sagas
In very recent issues of FF the phoenix was stated as the force which created multiverse and the abstracts such as eternity and so on. This too was after IG sagas.
As ive said countless times before the phoenixes origins and its relationship/connection with its avatars have been the only things tampered with in its existence. Never has its power or purpose been altered. FF proves this. Its in the comics whether you choose to believe this or not. As such i dont hav to argue anymore.
The M'kraan crystal is evidently more powerful than the IG. It is the nexus of all realities in the multiverse and its neutron galaxy was blinking out all of exstence not just the universe. Jean halted it with her power.
The IG has never shown as much power or influence as that. It allowed Thanos complete dominion of the universe. When he used its power against the abstracts and he defeated them he became eternity. A living universe. Marvels stance with phoenix has always been that it is the primal force of creation and recent issues of FF have confirmed this. So the IG allowed Thanos to slap around Eternity, he/its just a creation of the phoenix anyway. Jean held a universe in her hand as if it were nothing. Whats your point?
Originally posted by long pig
If Strange was able to keep himself and others immune to the effects of the IG twice(for a few minutes), PF should be above the IG i'd think.
Why do some of you keep bring Phoenix Force is life it is creator , so what it's only a process.
Phonix force can't fight/or act , only avatars can.
And IG has done more thing than the Highest Phoenix avatars.
I have shown that Death is multiversal
Eternity hold many universes in his hands(not just one) and every being from is part of him.
Choas , Order , etc have thire own domain
Ig owned them all
Highest Phoenix avatar has done is heal a Universe.
IG has power over space/time/soul etc
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
At the end of the day in uncanny xmen 137 phoenix was said to be second in power only to the creator. Phoenix was also said to be THE primal force of creation in marvel. This was prior to IG sagasIn Xmen Forever Eternity says that the Phoenix is the force that ends everything and then creates life again. This was after IG sagas
In very recent issues of FF the phoenix was stated as the force which created multiverse and the abstracts such as eternity and so on. This too was after IG sagas.
As ive said countless times before the phoenixes origins and its relationship/connection with its avatars have been the only things tampered with in its existence. Never has its power or purpose been altered. FF proves this. Its in the comics whether you choose to believe this or not. As such i dont hav to argue anymore.
The M'kraan crystal is evidently more powerful than the IG. It is the nexus of all realities in the multiverse and its neutron galaxy was blinking out all of exstence not just the universe. Jean halted it with her power.
The IG has never shown as much power or influence as that. It allowed Thanos complete dominion of the universe. When he used its power against the abstracts and he defeated them he became eternity. A living universe. Marvels stance with phoenix has always been that it is the primal force of creation and recent issues of FF have confirmed this. So the IG allowed Thanos to slap around Eternity, he/its just a creation of the phoenix anyway. Jean held a universe in her hand as if it were nothing. Whats your point?
Xmen Forever also said that Humans will evolve into Eternity , and will replace that Universe.
That doesn't mean Human > Eternity
When Death is talking to phoenix he says the enties are scared of evolution.
"The IG has never shown as much power or influence as that. It allowed Thanos complete dominion of the universe."
Not true when beyonder killed death. It had an effect on the whole Multiverse , so she like the Phoenix has effect over the Multiverse.
Also eternity holds many Universes from different realities in his hands.
IG owned both of them so it to has a multiversal force on MU multiverse