The only reason Strange was able to hide Warlock from the gauntlet, was because nebula wasn't adept at using the gauntlet like thanos. While Thanos had the gauntlet, strange, surfer and adam were all hiding in warlocks dimension, as they knew if they came out they would get their asses handed to them.
Originally posted by kgkg
Strange has challeged LT that doesn't mean IG is lower in terms of power.Why do some of you keep bring Phoenix Force is life it is creator , so what it's only a process.
Phonix force can't fight/or act , only avatars can.
And IG has done more thing than the Highest Phoenix avatars.
I have shown that Death is multiversal
Eternity hold many universes in his hands(not just one) and every being from is part of him.
Choas , Order , etc have thire own domainIg owned them all
Highest Phoenix avatar has done is heal a Universe.
IG has power over space/time/soul etc
Isnt virtually everything just a process KG whats your point? The phoenix creates the multiverse and then in the natural scheme of things is the thing that ends all that is.
You dont need to tell me of all people repeatedly that the phoenix cant act without avatars. Although thats not strictly correct is it KG. The Phoenix chooses not to act independently for fear of of draining life from future generations because remember it is the force that gives life to them after all. Remember Phoenix and its avatars are one so when i or others say phoenix dont assume we're just talking of the separate force.
You havent conclusively shown that Death is multiversal KG. Far from it. Eternity is not multiversal that is not debatable it is fact in Marvel. There are many alternate versions of him/it. Eternity in the IG sagas was shown as the top of the abstracts without a doubt. If death was multiversal then that would not be the case. Phoenix created eternity as it did the other abstracts. Without Phoenix there would be no death because there would be no life. Death talks of how it has no power over Phoenix whatsoever just check out classic Xmen. Whereas all the abstracts at some time occupy deaths towers within the white hot room. Phoenix forever exists outside of time/space (things the IG holds power over)
Eternity in Xmen forever was visualising what he was saying. He wasnt literally holdng actual universes in his hands. He is after all just a living universe himself. He is not multiversal that is not debatable. He might no about multiversal affairs due to being one of the most powerful things in it but his power and influence do not cover the extent of it. Jean was literally holding the universe in her hands. You know this because if you read that issue it is quite evident and she goes on to use her powers to heal it and telekinetically revserse its timeline. After this is done the comic reverts back to Jeans funeral like the 'Here Comes Tomorrow' future never existed because jean saw to it that it never.
As for Chaos and order having their own domains again. Whats your point? Many beings have thgeir own domains where they rule absolutely. That means nothing when it comes to multiversal affairs. Those two still got punked by Thanos with the IG.
The highest thing an avatar has done is not just heal a universe. What you have to remember about that event KG is that this was done on a whim with no effort at all. One of the other avatars within the white hot room remarked that he would have just let 616 die as if it was insignificant in the scheme of things. Jean however coming from that universe and having loved ones within in chose to heal it and reverse its timeline. That is far from the full extent of her power as phoenix of the white crown. In that position she has access to as much power as is required for her to carry out her work and when youre tapping into something that creates and destroys the multiverse cyclically and is one with all life then just imagine the feats jean is capable of if she held a universe an eternity in her hand literally.
The highest feat Jean has shown in the comics is to contain the power of the M'Kraan crystaland that is one of the highest feats achieved by any being below TOAA/Presence types in any comic. The M'kraan crystal was blinking out allllll that is. As if it were nothing. All reality in existence was coming apart at the seams. Jean basically held on to existence and sewed it back together with her power. The m'kraan crystals power far exceeds that of the IG that is quite evident. The IG just allowed Thanos mastery over the universe and allowed him to become eternity. A big feat but theres no comparison.
For christs sake Stranges power allowed him to shield himself from the effects of the IG. That in itself tells you that the IG's power and influence are not an absolute multiversal force. Oh yes Strange may have challenged LT but he couldnt negate the effects of LT's power on himself. Strange did just that with the IG not only on himself but others as well. Im sorry but Phoenix of the white crown is clearly more powerful than the IG.
If we're going by feats Jean has held the multiverse together and sewed it back together, she has held a universe in her hand and healed it and telekinetically reversed its timeline.
The IG made Thanos master of a universe and allowed him to become eternity.
NO COMPARISON
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe M'kraan crystal is evidently more powerful than the IG. It is the nexus of all realities in the multiverse and its neutron galaxy was blinking out all of exstence not just the universe. Jean halted it with her power.
But LT could also stop M'Krann crystal.
''Strange has challeged LT that doesn't mean IG is lower in terms of power.''
Strange challenge LT, that was for the first time we saw LT to apper in comic. Strange didn't know who LT was.
IG is far...far beyond Strange aslo, and PF and M'Krann crystal are beyond IG.
You havent conclusively shown that Death is multiversal KG. Far from it. Eternity is not multiversal that is not debatable it is fact in Marvel. There are many alternate versions of him/it. Eternity in the IG sagas was shown as the top of the abstracts without a doubt. If death was multiversal then that would not be the case. Phoenix created eternity as it did the other abstracts. Without Phoenix there would be no death because there would be no life. Death talks of how it has no power over Phoenix whatsoever just check out classic Xmen. Whereas all the abstracts at some time occupy deaths towers within the white hot room. Phoenix forever exists outside of time/space (things the IG holds power over)
-Death was also seen giving Jean advice beyond the universes ---- again multiversal
- Eternity holds many universes has been shown few times.
So are saying people outside the universe don't die of course they do.
Death has no power over phoenix doesn't mean much , death doesn't have power over many beings in the universe that are immortal.
IG holds power only over space/time - Space/time = Eternity , Choas , death etc. are not effect by space/time which is eternity.
IG - power over eternity ---- many universes
Death ----------------------Multisersal
C/order-------------------- Different realms beyond the universe
IG = Multiversal
Eternity in Xmen forever was visualising what he was saying. He wasnt literally holdng actual universes in his hands. He is after all just a living universe himself. He is not multiversal that is not debatable. He might no about multiversal affairs due to being one of the most powerful things in it but his power and influence do not cover the extent of it. Jean was literally holding the universe in her hands. You know this because if you read that issue it is quite evident and she goes on to use her powers to heal it and telekinetically revserse its timeline. After this is done the comic reverts back to Jeans funeral like the 'Here Comes Tomorrow' future never existed because jean saw to it that it never.
not only in X-men , Eternity holds many universes in his hands he has said that few times already(same thing as phonix) he has can also bring anyone he uses as his so called slave because they are part of him.
- SSII Eternity was seen as the stongest(one of the) in the Multiverse not the universe.
As for Chaos and order having their own domains again. Whats your point? Many beings have thgeir own domains where they rule absolutely. That means nothing when it comes to multiversal affairs. Those two still got punked by Thanos with the IG.
Therefore IG having has multiversal effect.
For christs sake Stranges power allowed him to shield himself from the effects of the IG. That in itself tells you that the IG's power and influence are not an absolute multiversal force. Oh yes Strange may have challenged LT but he couldnt negate the effects of LT's power on himself. Strange did just that with the IG not only on himself but others as well. Im sorry but Phoenix of the white crown is clearly more powerful than the IG.
that girl was a mentally retarted fool(dumb).
Thanos with IG whiped 50% of the universe.
how is she more powerful again?
Even the Phonix Force had to Obey LT
if she is the creator it whouldn't have to.
If we're going by feats Jean has held the multiverse together and sewed it back together, she has held a universe in her hand and healed it and telekinetically reversed its timeline. The IG made Thanos master of a universe and allowed him to become eternity.
The only thing that change from IG , to HOTU was
IG couldn't defeated by LT , HOTU made Omniversal (God)- He has all , everything
as for everything you said , you are saying Phoenix force = TAOO creator etc which is false.
Phoenix force had to obey to LT in a issue to save the universe/earth
Originally posted by Maestro
The only reason Strange was able to hide Warlock from the gauntlet, was because nebula wasn't adept at using the gauntlet like thanos. While Thanos had the gauntlet, strange, surfer and adam were all hiding in warlocks dimension, as they knew if they came out they would get their asses handed to them.
Strange did it again while Adam had the IG.
He even un did things that Adam did with the IG.
No doubt he couldn't do it forever, but he still negated the effects for a few seconds.
But, PF seems at least as high up on the food chain as the IG.
"Eternity holds many universes has been shown few times."
Yet after doing so he didnt act in a way or events didnt change in the comics to show it was anything but a visualisation. Eternity is known to be merely the living embodiment of a universe. There are many eternities this proves nothing.
"Death has no power over phoenix doesn't" mean much , death doesn't have power over many beings in the universe that are immortal."
Not so KG. Immortal just like invulnerable and limitless are thrown around in comics and you of all people should know not to take them literally because there are different degrees of all of these despite what these words actually mean. For example the etrenals, the externals and the olympians are 'immortal' however death still holds power over them they can still die. If subjected to force enough to disintegrate the majority of their bodies at a molecular level then all of these races will die. That is fact. Phoenix is life and can never truly die. Death exists only because of phoenix.
"not true IG is as smart as it's wielder in this case
that girl was a mentally retarted fool(dumb).
Thanos with IG whiped 50% of the universe."
Your half way correct but not exactly there KG.
The IG's potential depends on its user. Its power is supposedly infinite within a universe however thanos' niece gave an order and this was resisted. She might not have been as smart as Thanos but that doesnt matter. That just means thanos would be more inventive and perhaps more dangerous with his usage of the IG. They both would have access to the same supposedly infinite power levels. She made a wish and Strange negated the effects simple as. Thanos with the IG could have made the same wish and it wouldnt have made a difference Strange could still have resisted. Thanos might make the same wish but differently worded so as to achieve the exact result he desires but thats different. Thats just using the power more effectively.
"Even the Phonix Force had to Obey LT
if she is the creator it whouldn't have to"
Im sorry but where was this? Youre usually good with coming up with scans to prove your point do you want to carry on the tradition?
Also the phoenix force being the creator of the multiverse isnt in doubt its in the comics ive already listed refernces. Its fact. Deal with it. So Thanos slapped around eternity. Phoenix created him along with potentially billions of alternate reality versions of him as well.
"Again not true IG didn't make Thanos the universe he was the ultimate force."
The watcher states that eternity position is the center of reality and that the IG allowed thanos to usurp him and take on that role. Thanos is then shown as a jet black being looking down from the heavens with stars and so on composing his body. I think its safe to say he became eternity.
"Thanos with IG whiped 50% of the universe.
how is she more powerful again?"
How about holding the universe Thanos is a part of and had to duke it out in even after becoming the ultimate force and completely reshaping its time and space from beyond the multiverse. Beyond the influence of the IG. How about saving the lives of a whole existence woth of eternities as opposed to duking it out with one. *sigh* No comparison.
"IG couldn't defeated by LT , HOTU made Omniversal (God)- He has all , everything"
Kind of like what Marvel state Phoenix is yeah? Its in the comics im afraid.
"as for everything you said , you are saying Phoenix force = TAOO creator etc which is false."
It is not false it is just not directly stated in the comics but merely suggested by Chris C in his creation of phoenix and all the phoenix stories he wrote and also implied by Grant M by using trems and phrases directly linked to God. Either way im not going to go on about that because i dont need to. What is set in stone about Phoenix in the comics is that it creates the multiverse and destroys the multiverse cyclically. It is one with all life. The stars the planets etc. It creates the abstracts such as eternity etc. It exists outside of the multiverse beyond space and time so beyond the influence of artifacts like the IG and that is not debatable. Its avatars are one with the phoenix and it is they who carry out these tasks in its name.
Did you see Phoenix in the Infinity Gauntlet Saga? No. Why you might think. Well its shown in the comics that the phoenixes exist in the white hot room the place which contains the multiverse and where all the universes are represented as mere spheres of energy. From here they can survey existence and see the outcomes of events. That is how they know when and where to reincarnate themselves within reality below so as to interfere with an event down below which could affect the balance of existence without their intervention. The phoenix is greater than the likes of its creations it is at least as powerful as LT so why wasnt it one of the beings Thanos took out in his quest to be the ultimate power within the universe? Because the phoenix is greater than the IG and exists beyond its influence. The phoenixes can see the outcomes of events and just like LT chose not to interfere so it seems the phoenixes did to.
Originally posted by long pig
Strange did it again while Adam had the IG.
He even un did things that Adam did with the IG.No doubt he couldn't do it forever, but he still negated the effects for a few seconds.
But, PF seems at least as high up on the food chain as the IG.
LT asked Warlock to give up the gauntlet. LT wasn't sure if he could take them by force. He feared with Warlock in possession of the Gauntlet, he feared Warlock was more powerful than even him.
LT passing judgement, not taking the Gauntlet by force. He practically asked Warlock to give up the gems.
Sorry, had to stick up for Warlock. Started reading his comics again.
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Believe In Sentry 😄
Not really because i know that its stated in comics that the phoenix force is second in power only to that of the creator. The phoenix isnt a being as such its a force. Its its avatars themselves and a consciousness which gives the phoenixes orders and regulates them. It is this that is suggested to be TOAA. If you want to say LT is the most powerful being in Marvel then fair enough but the phoenix force is more powerful. If it was a sentient independent being then it would be a different story.
Originally posted by long pig
😂 no prob. 😄IG is at LEAST = to the Phoenix.
Nope. The force in power is second to nothing but the creator that is fact. You need to remember that it is not a sentient being. However Jean as Phoenix of The White Crown gets to draw on the totality of this force to carry out her duties so nope i disagree.
Phoenix is at least = LT
LT's bio says he has the power to destroy universes witha single force bolt. Jeand holds universes in her hands and recreates them and restructures their timelines.
Originally posted by long pig
😂 no prob. 😄IG is at LEAST = to the Phoenix.
LT doesn't ask for permission from nobody save TOAA.
OT: so you're gettin back into Adam warlock again? Tell me, is he back to full power again?
He's like in the middle. In the Warlock mini series he has his soul gem again after he was dragged into that black hole thing that pulled him into the Ultraverse. He's looking on how to get rid of it. It sucks him dry kinda like Thor's belt of strength makes him tired quicker. Mid-level powers still powerful enough to kick Superman's a$$. LOL! I don't know why he wants to get rid of the soul gem. Man that thing can do a lot more than enter/exorcise souls.
Not bothering on the fight itself. But isnt the fact that LT intervened directly when Thanos and Warlock had the IG shows that IG is multiversal? Because last time I checked LT only acts when someone/something threatens the entire existence. Whatever happens in a universe doesnt concern him as long as that universe doesnt generate power great enough to threaten other universes.
The Living Tribunal refused to intervene in the IG affair at first. It wasn't until Eternity claimed that Adam Warlock was unfit that the LT became involved. Initially, the LT wasn't opposed to someone possessing all six gems. His ear was bent because the person wielding them was rumored to be emotionally and psychologically unfit to be the ultimate being of a reality. His appearance doesn't have anything to do with anything multiversal: Eternity wanted to remain at the top of the food chain, and the LT was the only other way of removing Warlock from power. General cosmic and mystical imbalances are usually left to Chaos and Order.
As far as the LT being afraid of Warlock...That wasn't the impression that I got. You didn't scan the page where the LT tells Adam what the result of a battle between them would be. He was treating Warlock as a being of ultimate power, not as a mortal who had obtained ultimate power. How often has the LT actually used his power? When he appears, he usually arbitrates or hands down judgment. He rarely smites. Dealing with Warlock shouldn't have been any different.
Yeah I left that part out. Eternity a regular enemy of Warlock's practically begged LT to pass judgement on Warlock, and take away the gems, or at least disperse them. I think Adam could have taken LT. But that would have thrown everything in the Marvel Universe up sh!t creek. Eternity did convince LT Warlock was emotionally and psychologically unfit to wield ultimate power. I also agree with you that Eternity wanted to remain at the top of the food chain. Warlock had already expelled all good and evil from his body, so I don't know why he couldn't hold on to the IG. He would have remained a neutral party similar to LT and act only when the balance is tipped. Well back to the subject, I think Warlock or Thanos with the IG is more powerful than the Phoenix Force.
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Believe In Sentry 😄