Originally posted by Bobafettyactually yoda was winning, yoda kinda defeated himself, see the only reason yoda lost was because he just opennned a can of wupass and cut himself, mediphorically speaking, it was the force of the thingy he shot at palpatine that sent him down 5 stories and smacked his back, and plapatine was very wise nd had great foresight, almost everything that happenned up until the end of episode 3 he knew and wanted to happen, he wanted the jedi to find out he was the sith at that same time, he wanted them to attack him, and he wanted it to look like mace wouldv'e killed him, it's so obvius, he has no energy then anakincuts mace's hands off, then suddnely he's fully alive and well, it was all an act
Well, Palpatine could have actually beat Mace and the only reason he was getting so owned was because he was allowing Mace to so that Anikan would feel the anger (and all that dark side crap) and come to the dark side. If that wasent Palpatines objective then he would have owned Mace just like he owned Yoda.
what are you people talking about yoda was winning he wasnt winning, he only stalemated palpatine, neither was winning, but as i remeber it yoda wasnt the one laughing his head off about the entire fight. Lucas said that palps pretended to lose the fight with mace, in the fight with yoda his lightning made yoda's saber fly right out of his hand and that was with one hand i think, if he had been trying he should have been able to hurt mace with out getting hurt himself, he most likely was holding back, in saber skills and power.
no interview it was a commentary on revenge of the sith DVD, yup he said here's where palpatine pretends to lose power, how funny that you ignore the fact that when yoda tried to block sidious lightning his saber got shout out of his hand, also the fact that sidious stalemated yoda and was the master of darth tyrannus the only two swordsmen who defeated mace windu in one on one combat, or sparring, you care to explain to me how a kick to the head makes palpatine lose the fight when obi wan, and qui gon, and anakin get kicked during battle and still manage to keep on fighting, also why didnt palpatine use his other lightsaber i do think he had more then one where did he get the one he used to fight yoda then.
This issue is ridiculous. Mace did legitimately defeat Palpatine (if a kick to the face determines the superior saber duelist - as I've heard that Anakin grabbing Count Dooku didn't exactly show that he was the more skilled combatant, but, hey...) in their lightsaber duel, compliments of the nature of Vaapad and Mace's remarkable Shatterpoint gift.
Palpatine was feigning weakness, however, during the scene where he attempted to blast Windu in the face. It was Mace who was weakening, nearly having his lightsaber being rammed into his face via the sheer force of the lightning hitting his saber. Palpatine was not weakened, but decided to try to manipulate Anakin to joining the dark side.
Essentially, if it continued, Sidious's face would've been uglier, and he'd be sore in the morning, but either Mace would have been killed by his own sabers, or WTFpwned to the power of ten by the force of the lightning itself.
However, there is no conclusive evidence to say that Sidious faked the whole thing.
Originally posted by Mider999
no interview it was a commentary on revenge of the sith DVD, yup he said here's where palpatine pretends to lose power, how funny that you ignore the fact that when yoda tried to block sidious lightning his saber got shout out of his hand, also the fact that sidious stalemated yoda and was the master of darth tyrannus the only two swordsmen who defeated mace windu in one on one combat, or sparring, you care to explain to me how a kick to the head makes palpatine lose the fight when obi wan, and qui gon, and anakin get kicked during battle and still manage to keep on fighting, also why didnt palpatine use his other lightsaber i do think he had more then one where did he get the one he used to fight yoda then.
I would greatly appreciate it if you could use periods.
Anyway, I've repeated that argument about Yoda and Sidious in many different threads before, and I don't feel like repeating it again.
I'm sorry, but the rest of your post was.... well, incomprehensible.
yeah that sounds like just a lame excuse. Ill skip lines and make it less of a challange k?
Sidious stalemated yoda who is one of the only two people to defeat mace windu.
Sidious had controll over dooku who was the other guy who defeated windu, he also was an amazing swordsman, i find him losing to anakin pure PIS, since anakin cant even beat kanobi, and the fact that kanobi got owned in that fight.
Sidious sith lightning actually threw yoda's saber out of his hand, and he was holding it with both hands like windu, yet he could not handle it.
Yoda did not defeat sidious he only stalemated him, if you wanna say he won tell me why he's the one who ran off and dont say its cause storm troopers where comming id think they'd have gotten there alot faster especially while the senate was being destroyed.
Also since when has any jedi from kanobi in phantom menace. to ROTS, to darth maul, since when have any of these guys suddenly lost from a kick to even the face and suddenly drop there sabers.
Sidious probably had a back up saber, why didnt he use it less he threw the fight, if you say he didnt then tell me where he got his saber from when he fought yoda.
Sidious and yoda where eventally matched from what i saw at sword fighting, even with yoda's jumping around and stuff, the emperor seemed to hold his own and was laughing through out there entire fight.
Lucas himself stated palpatine just pretended to lose so anakin would turn to the darkside, he is all down one monent unable to fight then the moment windu is defensless he takes him out then just gets back on his feet as if nothing happend.
I'm starting to detest the whole "He was faking" card being thrown around like at a game of poker. This is Star Wars. Things happen like we see it. People win fights because they're better. That is what Lucas is trying to show in a fight. It may not always determine who's more skilled, as tactics and psychological control comes into play as well. However, if two opponents are fighting on even ground, and both are thinking clearly, then the winner of that fight is the better saber duelist.
Yoda sent Dooku running because he was better. Anakin cut off Dooku's hand because he was better. Mace grounded Palpatine because he was better. Hell, Obi-Wan beat Anakin because he was better and Anakin was an idiot.
Lucas would have made it painfully clear if he wanted us to seriously believe that one character was "faking". Either in the movie or in the commentary. (As in, when Palpatine faked his lightning against Mace)
And....you'd know what Lucas intended....how?
Lucas isn't a very bright man. He's not going to hide a series of discreet clues to help us extrapolate that Palpatine was holding back the whole time. One could argue that it's up to personal interpretation, but there's absolutely no solid evidence to say that Palpatine was faking. If that's what Lucas intended, he would have made it clear in the commentary (Unless he just forgot) or in the film. Just like how he made the "lightning part" clear that Palps was faking.
Originally posted by Generic Hero
I'm starting to detest the whole "He was faking" card being thrown around like at a game of poker. This is Star Wars. Things happen like we see it. People win fights because they're [b]better. That is what Lucas is trying to show in a fight. It may not always determine who's more skilled, as tactics and psychological control comes into play as well. However, if two opponents are fighting on even ground, and both are thinking clearly, then the winner of that fight is the better saber duelist.Yoda sent Dooku running because he was better. Anakin cut off Dooku's hand because he was better. Mace grounded Palpatine because he was better. Hell, Obi-Wan beat Anakin because he was better and Anakin was an idiot.
Lucas would have made it painfully clear if he wanted us to seriously believe that one character was "faking". Either in the movie or in the commentary. (As in, when Palpatine faked his lightning against Mace) [/B]
I agree with this. However, though there isn't any concrete evidence to support it, Palpatine is a clever enough character to have duped Mace. Afterall, he successfully did it for over a decade. It is easily conceivable that someone as manipulative as the Emperor could have orchestrated the situation. Likewise, Mace and all of the other characters are equally susceptible to manipulation, so it isn't a stretch of the imagination that it happened. That has to be taken into consideration.
However, I go by concrete evidence, and concrete evidence supports that Mace was the better fighter in that situation, due to the power of Vaapad and Shatterpoint. But, as I said, a debate rages on about Dooku vs. Anakin. On that Anakin's "grabbing" of Count Dooku doesn't exactly spell out superior skill. If that is the case, I hardly think a kick to the face implies that Mace > Sidious in swordsmanship.
Likewise, Sidious was faking the lightning part. The only one who was weak at that point was Mace, and that is because Sidious is the more powerful Force user, and the effort of stopping Sidious's lightning was weakening him - as well as pushing his lightsaber into his face.
But, the bottom line is that as of now, Mace won the fight legitimately, and that shouldn't be taken away from him.
he only won cause the emperor let him win in my opinion its really dumb to show him losing to mace windu then stalemating the grand master of the jedi order a few minutes later sorry doesnt make sense, nor does it make sense that he loses his saber yet has one minutes later less he had a back up one, also the whole force thing, the lighthing was to strong for yoda to block with a saber, it just shot it out of his hand same should have happend to mace. if anakin had not saved him i think he'd have taken mace out himself.
Originally posted by Mider999
he only won cause the emperor let him win in my opinion its really dumb to show him losing to mace windu then stalemating the grand master of the jedi order a few minutes later sorry doesnt make sense, nor does it make sense that he loses his saber yet has one minutes later less he had a back up one, also the whole force thing, the lighthing was to strong for yoda to block with a saber, it just shot it out of his hand same should have happend to mace. if anakin had not saved him i think he'd have taken mace out himself.
for the last time he did not let mace win, mace beat him fair and square quit lying
if you want to argue, please provide a quote
Originally posted by Mider999
yeah that sounds like just a lame excuse. Ill skip lines and make it less of a challange k?Sidious stalemated yoda who is one of the only two people to defeat mace windu.
Sidious had controll over dooku who was the other guy who defeated windu, he also was an amazing swordsman, i find him losing to anakin pure PIS, since anakin cant even beat kanobi, and the fact that kanobi got owned in that fight.
Sidious sith lightning actually threw yoda's saber out of his hand, and he was holding it with both hands like windu, yet he could not handle it.
Yoda did not defeat sidious he only stalemated him, if you wanna say he won tell me why he's the one who ran off and dont say its cause storm troopers where comming id think they'd have gotten there alot faster especially while the senate was being destroyed.
Also since when has any jedi from kanobi in phantom menace. to ROTS, to darth maul, since when have any of these guys suddenly lost from a kick to even the face and suddenly drop there sabers.
Sidious probably had a back up saber, why didnt he use it less he threw the fight, if you say he didnt then tell me where he got his saber from when he fought yoda.
Sidious and yoda where eventally matched from what i saw at sword fighting, even with yoda's jumping around and stuff, the emperor seemed to hold his own and was laughing through out there entire fight.
Lucas himself stated palpatine just pretended to lose so anakin would turn to the darkside, he is all down one monent unable to fight then the moment windu is defensless he takes him out then just gets back on his feet as if nothing happend.
Well, I appreciate your generosity, but no need to be a jackass.
1. I've never said that they didn't stalemate. However, Sidious was able to gain the high ground, just as Obi-Wan was able to.
2. Well, obviously you saw Anakin beat Dooku in ROTS. So you thinking that he can't beat Dooku doesn't count for anything.
3. Sidious was screaming, "No, no YOU have lost!" and his hands were in the position to shoot the lighting. Windu already had a firm footing, where as Yoda had literally just landed up there when Sidious shot the lighting full-power at Yoda.
4. No duh he lost, he said later on, "Failed I have."
5. Well, none of the Jedi had actually fought a Sith Lord between TPM and AOTC.
6. It's not confirmed where he had it, but, if what people say is true about Palpatine throwing the fight, then why would he need the spare lightsaber?
7. Sidious was laughing because he's insane. He also thought he could win. You saw him laughing as he was dangling. Then he screamed. Like a sissy. Oh, yes, he wasn't worried at all.
8. If Lucas did say it, then why isn't it on Mace Windu's bio, Palpatine's bio, or Anakin's bio on the Official Star Wars Website?
Originally posted by Council#13
Well, I appreciate your generosity, but no need to be a jackass.1. I've never said that they didn't stalemate. However, Sidious was able to gain the high ground, just as Obi-Wan was able to.
2. Well, obviously you saw Anakin beat Dooku in ROTS. So you thinking that he can't beat Dooku doesn't count for anything.
3. Sidious was screaming, "No, no YOU have lost!" and his hands were in the position to shoot the lighting. Windu already had a firm footing, where as Yoda had literally just landed up there when Sidious shot the lighting full-power at Yoda.
4. No duh he lost, he said later on, "Failed I have."
5. Well, none of the Jedi had actually fought a Sith Lord between TPM and AOTC.
6. It's not confirmed where he had it, but, if what people say is true about Palpatine throwing the fight, then why would he need the spare lightsaber?
7. Sidious was laughing because he's insane. He also thought he could win. You saw him laughing as he was dangling. Then he screamed. Like a sissy. Oh, yes, he wasn't worried at all.
8. If Lucas did say it, then why isn't it on Mace Windu's bio, Palpatine's bio, or Anakin's bio on the Official Star Wars Website?
1. what does high ground have to do with force using, which is what sidious was using, and before that they where stalemating in saber use, and the match didnt end with a high ground stand off it ended with yoda and sidious both being knocked down, yoda knew it was pointless to keep on fighting. High ground didnt make a diffrence, the fight ended on even ground.
2. Well if it matters to you or not doesnt.......matter to me heh. How can dooku smack around obi wan then lose to anakin then anakin cant defeat obi wan later on in the movie, and obi wan didnt do that great against grevious while dooku fought him with out effort, its called common sense.
3. Yoda did have a firm footing and both hands on the saber, if he didnt have a firm footing why didnt the lightning knock him off the pod.
4. good you and i agree that yoda who beats mace, stalemated sidious who should beat mace as well.
5. they fought a dark jedi though thats pretty close to a sith, only thing is you cant become a sith if there already is two, beside that obi wan got owned all three times he met a sith lord, he got lucky against maul, and got owned totally by dooku both times they met.
6. im so sure he was gonna go down in the street just to get his lightsaber back......rightttttt, he did throw the fight its not logical that he should beat yoda or stalemate him in both force and saber skills one shot then lose to mace before that.
7. He won when he was dangling while yoda lost and fell, who cares, you dont even know the meaning of insanity so why you label him insane. nothing ive seen that proves sidious insane, he aint insane he knew he was winning.
8. how should i know because lucas doesnt write the bio's personally, why would he say it on a commentary heard by millions if it wasnt canon.