Originally posted by DrDoom
When there is no solar energy around, yes he does. Otherwise he can survive on sun alone, like he could in this fight.Again, HOW is Bobby going to get inside his invulnerable cells? IF he gets inside why wouldn't Superman's body sense it was being attacked and just block him from doing it?
Supes needs to breathe, I'm assuming he needs water in his cells to survive too...
Bobby will get in the same way his own bodys water gets into his "invulnerable cells".
Freezing all the moisture in the brain and spine, as well as any other organs Bobby decides to get into, should work. Superman does have a brain, and internal organs, even if Iceman wouldn't know what they actually do. It's simple logic that freezing all of the fluid in Superman's organs would kill him. If there was an extremely advanced computer setup in front of me, and I had no idea what it did, but I happened to have a big metal object, I'd assume that smashing the computers should cause them to stop functioning, regardless of how well I understand them. Same thing goes for Superman's insides.
The fact that they contain moisture. Iceman has complete command over the liquids in Superman's body once he gets inside, including that surrounding the spinal chorc and brain, as well as all of Superman's blood. External subzero climates are different from internal ones. Superman is basically wearing the best long underwear ever created at all times. Plus absolute zero is way the hell colder than sub zero.(temperature at which molecules stop moving completely vs. anything below 0 degrees)
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Why would his cells freeze? He easily survives sub zero climates for a reason as well as the extreme cold/heat of space. Supes is not human.
Bobby doesnt have to freeze them, even if they could survive that, all he has to do is "become" the water inside Supes... then leave, leaving behind a dried up Superman.
At worst, its a draw, because once Bobby is inside what is Superman going to do.
I don't understand this whole "aura around Superman's entire body" argument. We've all seen Superman bleed...plenty of times, from sheer brute force. This isn't the Juggernaut here, Superman is perfectly capable of being damaged. And his internals are quite vulnerable. Look at what Manchester Black did to Superman...damn near gave him a stroke. So no, Superman's cells are NOT protected, NOT invincible, and VERY vulnerable to stopping at the hands of Bobby. We're not talking about Bobby the Snowman here, we're talking about someone whose powers are technically defined as "able to control molecular spin of any object he can perceive or conceive". That technically classifies him as something of a matter manipulator, to the extent of which he was powerful enough to take out THE STRANGER - an Elder God. That's something only people beyond Thor level have been able to do before.
Superman goes down hard.
Demi heres.....havent seen him post in awhile.....the scientific genuis....its nice to meet you...aslo did you read that definition on his powers that I posted in the last page? Moving on to the debate.......
The real problem with this debate is that some think that all his cells are protected and others seem to think that its just skintight.....if we can figure that out then we can go back to the subject that it still doesnt matter if he has an aura around his cells if Bobby moves naturally with the water and then sucks him dry
I would argue that his cells are protected. Hence why he never gets sick. There were times where he drank poison. Inhaled fire, taken a bite out of a rock etc. The theory I was always familiar with was that his cells became supercharged and each one emitted the aura.
Look at the superman/aliens crossover. Once his powers came back when he got back to the yellow sun the chestburster was unable to escape or do any damage superman simply spit it out.
I've alwasy attributed superman bleeding to him being either weakened (doomsday fight) or magic, or just plain bad writing.
Originally posted by Blair Wind
[B]Demi heres.....havent seen him post in awhile.....the scientific genuis....its nice to meet you...aslo did you read that definition on his powers that I posted in the last page? Moving on to the debate.......
Nice to meet you too. I think I've seen your name mentioned on the Best Debator thread...congrats. I didn't read the definition. Let me look real quick...
Well done! Seems you beat me to it with the definition..
The real problem with this debate is that some think that all his cells are protected and others seem to think that its just skintight.....if we can figure that out then we can go back to the subject that it still doesnt matter if he has an aura around his cells if Bobby moves naturally with the water and then sucks him dry
The precedent is Superman can and has been injured before - he's felt pain, he's bled, he's had his inside manipulated. It happens just about every issue. In fact, when it bleeds, it's red. That means it's oxidized, which means it's exposed to air, which means it's not protected from air, which means that THERE'S NO SUPER POWERFUL AURA AROUND IT.
I would argue that his cells are protected. Hence why he never gets sick. There were times where he drank poison. Inhaled fire, taken a bite out of a rock etc. The theory I was always familiar with was that his cells became supercharged and each one emitted the aura.
He's invulnerable, but that doesn't mean untouchable. Manchester Black said it best when he said that Superman's insides are tough as hell - his blood capillaries are as hard as concrete. But that doesn't mean there's some special aura preventing him from being affected by anything - he's just super resistent and has a really good healing factor. Manchester demonstrated that by manipulating his capillaries regardless...it just took more effort than for a regular person. the same principle applies to Iceman. He'd have to exert more effort to stop the spin of Superman's molecules, but it can be stopped. Like I said, if he could freeze the Stranger, he can for sure freeze Superman.
Look at the superman/aliens crossover. Once his powers came back when he got back to the yellow sun the chestburster was unable to escape or do any damage superman simply spit it out.
I think everybody recognizes that he's invulnerable...he's Superman.
I've alwasy attributed superman bleeding to him being either weakened (doomsday fight) or magic, or just plain bad writing.
I think the bad writing excuse can only be applied when something almost never happens. Count how many times Superman has bled over the past year in all of his appearances. It's actually fairly frequent. It's not bad writing when it happens that often...it's canon.
Originally posted by ChaoticReign
I would argue that his cells are protected. Hence why he never gets sick. There were times where he drank poison. Inhaled fire, taken a bite out of a rock etc. The theory I was always familiar with was that his cells became supercharged and each one emitted the aura.
Drinking something that is poisonious for US, doesnt mean that it is for Superman considering that he is alien. That being said he has bleed, he does need air, he does drink water, and has water in his system, thus giving Iceman at least one method of attack in this way by mixing with Superman's own natural mouisture and then just leaving with it.