Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Originally posted by Juntai
And of freezing his molocules.
Even full chrono suspension doesn't work on Superman.
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Ice even overtook his body, when his being was put in a chrono-statis.

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His whole being is loaded with massive amounts of energy.

Originally posted by demigawd
Unfortunately for you, you just proved my point. I already said several times that Superman would recover quickly from an attack. My point (which you verified) is that Superman's internal systems are vulnerable to manipulation. So all that rubbish about Meta ATP making his cells invincible, blah, blah is just that - rubbish.

So it seems we're making progress:

1. We're in agreement that Superman's internal cells are capable of manipulation.

2. We're in agreement that Bobby can manipulate internal cells, even in high level beings, like the Elder God Stranger.

3. We're in agreement that the only thing that can destroy H2O bonds is electrolysis, which is one of the few powers Superman doesn't have.

4. We're in agreement that Bobby can exist anywhere where there is any form of H2O, so any electrolysis that did occur would have to be planetary in nature

Therefore, we must conclude that if Bobby can exist in a form that Superman cannot destroy, then Superman cannot destroy Bobby.

We must also conclude, per points 1 and 2, that Bobby has the power to manipulate Superman's internal system to the point where he can stop molecular movement altogether.

I think every non-biased person here must agree to these points - they've been exhaustively proven.

To address the issue of "super-healing" - we're also on agreement with this point:

5. Superman heals HELLUVA fast.

So if Bobby froze the blood to Superman's brain, it would knock Superman out (which should automatically qualify as a win, since it rendered Superman helpless and unable to defend himself). If Bobby then started doing victory dances or whatever, Superman would be up and all over Bobby again in five seconds flat. But...WHO SAYS BOBBY WOULD JUST LET SUPERMAN GO IN THE FIRST PLACE??? That's just supervillain arrogance, it doesn't at all take away from the fact that Coldcast or Manchester Black could have made things at lot worse for Superman if they weren't so bloody cocky and pressed the attack and didn't turn their backs on him. Don't discredit Iceman because of the old "villains must lose" principle. Iceman isn't a villain. Furthermore, when you stop molecular movement entirely, the molecules incapable of receiving commands (like "heal"😉 if you keep them in a persistently frozen state. Bobby could keep Superman's molecules stopped forever...or long enough to turn into a giant fist and smash him in half. Unfreeze = dead Superman.

So it seems that we're all in agreement on every point, and if you analyze the points then I don't see how anyone can't agree that Iceman, if not the overwhelmingly obvious choice, is at least a solid favorite and stands a better chance against Superman than vice-versa.

That's it...those are my points summarized. Anything else is just circular. Either you agree with it or you don't, but there isn't much more to it than that.

Demigawd is correct. If people would read the entire thread before blabbering you would see why he is correct.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
👆
Smartest new guy to show up out of no where. Even if you were not on my side, at least you read the thread. Refreshing from the people who come in and post with no background information on to what is going on.

Thanks, If they would actually read the entire thread before they debate than they could possibly defend there position by coming up with something that has not been shown irrelevant.. But all they seem to do is repeat topics that have already been settled in Icemans favor or ask redundant questions. If they do read the entire thread and comprehend than they will see the inevitable fact that Iceman has an unfair advantage in this. It is by logic that Iceman is surely the Victor.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
sure superman got out of that, but unlike that child iceman at his peak can't be beaten by physical punishment, and holding onto him could result in a similar lowering of superman's body temperature all over again. subsequent lowering then heightening of his body temperature "should" tax superman over time. and the seemingly 0k (or near to it) temperatures peak iceman can achieve imo would be detrimental to superman's physiology, especially his precious stomach.

Actually, It wouldn't tax anything. Let's take the Eradicator for example...who cloned DOS Superman's body. Absolute Zero did nothing to his body whatsoever... Hell, when he came out of it, he was pissed and powerful as hell...going into fortress mode, and doing ish like teleportation and disintegration.

At most, Iceman's (non existent) full potential form would start to slow Superman's (or practically any herald leveler) down until their bodies realized the foreign attack to which they would adjust and keep coming just as Juntai's example showed. After that, Bobby would have to keep up the attack indefinitely. Just as in Eradicator's case, as soon the attack weakens in any way, shape, or form, Iceman is screwed. Supes,or practically any leveler is going to come out unharmed and pissed.

Of course, this is a tricky thing to debate since their is no "full potential" Iceman with on panel feats to debate against. To top it off...more powerful mutants like Cable, and Vulcan at pretty much peak have been owned by herald leveler's when they try to compete against them, which doesn't help Iceman's case either.

Originally posted by illadelph12
This is not a stalemate, by the way.

This is simply people not willing to accept Superman losing.

👆

all i want to know is what means can iceman be beaten?

cuz he can't beat supes, but i'm not sure in what ways people have beaten iceman

After careful consideration(nah)👽🏴‍☠️ ...it seem Iceman at least at abstract level with full potential mode..Q: this iceman did we see his in action somewhere to warrant the real presentation of this uber Iceman not the fanboy myth or something?.

superman in a stomp

Besides hype from fanboys, what Iceman's highest on panel feat?

Because this thread is sounding like 2damnloud and what he did for Storm.

I just remember the times Captain Cold hit Superman with his absolute zero blasts and didn't seem to phase him *shrugs*

Originally posted by Vanlore
Demigawd is correct. If people would read the entire thread before blabbering you would see why he is correct.

Demigawd was super wrong. Electrolysis isn't the only way to hydrolyse water.

Supes can hydrolyse water with a lot less energy if he has ATP. His cells can hydrolyse water via photons.

And even if he doesn't have ATP, the energy in his body is so great that water will get hydrolysed.

We're talking high enough energy to not only break the chemical bonds between Hydrogen and Oxygen, but enough energy to split said elements at the atomic level.

Originally posted by Avlon
Actually, It wouldn't tax anything. Let's take the Eradicator for example...who cloned DOS Superman's body. Absolute Zero did nothing to his body whatsoever... Hell, when he came out of it, he was pissed and powerful as hell...going into fortress mode, and doing ish like teleportation and disintegration.

At most, Iceman's (non existent) full potential form would start to slow Superman's (or practically any herald leveler) down until their bodies realized the foreign attack to which they would adjust and keep coming just as Juntai's example showed. After that, Bobby would have to keep up the attack indefinitely. Just as in Eradicator's case, as soon the attack weakens in any way, shape, or form, Iceman is screwed. Supes,or practically any leveler is going to come out unharmed and pissed.

Of course, this is a tricky thing to debate since their is no "full potential" Iceman with on panel feats to debate against. To top it off...more powerful mutants like Cable, and Vulcan at pretty much peak have been owned by herald leveler's when they try to compete against them, which doesn't help Iceman's case either.

Supes freeze breath > Iceman

Originally posted by skygunner41
After careful consideration(nah)👽🏴‍☠️ ...it seem Iceman at least at abstract level with full potential mode

Originally posted by shokosugi
Supes freeze breath > Iceman

Originally posted by Mindset
Cable and Vulcan have not evolved beyond the need of a body. Neither are they really more powerful, they just have different power sets.

Perhaps...but has Bobby ever had his body destroyed and then gone to defeat a herald leveler by taking over/freezing his body while bodyless himself?

Originally posted by Avlon
Perhaps...but has Bobby ever had his body destroyed and then gone to defeat a herald leveler by taking over/freezing his body while bodyless himself?

Well this whole debate is nice and all but is Bobby even capcable of performing any of this at a speed greater then what supes can think and move at. Could'nt clark smply combine his HV along with his X-ray to ionize Bobby at a molecur level which would cause a interal combustion. His HV is more potent then what DC's scientist are able to quantify so it's pretty safe to assume were dealing with type-2 super nova and beyond level heat. Not to mention supes has been stated as having"greater then nanosecond"movment,so he could do all of this before Bobby could even react.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yes 😠

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ lol.

Well unles bobby has attained speedster level speed, I don't know how he will be able to trace clark let alone try anything as sophisticated as many of the posters here have suggested. Supes only needs to apply a HV enclosure around bobby or ionize bobby internally to get a rather efforless win.

This is a good fight and its kind of hard to put someone against bobby, who really doesnt need a body to fight you.

I'm going to leave this one alone, both are extremely powerful.

Originally posted by Makky
Well unles bobby has attained speedster level speed, I don't know how he will be able to trace clark let alone try anything as sophisticated as many of the posters here have suggested. Supes only needs to apply a HV enclosure around bobby or ionize bobby internally to get a rather efforless win.

Wont work.

Originally posted by carver9
Wont work.

Why not, clark already blanketted louis with his HV to keep her warm and he used his HV in a similar application to prevent this one opponent from teleporting by ionizing the air around them. All he really needs to do is blanet bobby with his HV or combine it with his x-ray to internally burn bobby.