Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Originally posted by Vanlore
Yes but see I read the entire thread and understand why her posts is irrelevant since he can be in many places at once and regardless of cell damage or internal activity of superman ect which has already been refuted. Iceman would stop all superman's Kinetic energy and the side effects he might be resistant too are void...

No what you have done is decided to make her post irrelevent and decided to accept the argument in favor of bobby. The internal contraption supes has going makes what u just said impossible, but again if u refuse to except it that isnt anyone else's problem. Ionizing boby internally can causing him to combust while still in solid form sounds convincing enough for me, but hey if u wanna ignore then more power to you.

no, he's called iceman because water vapor is so abundant on planet earth. even when he was new to the x-men as an untrained teen he was covered in snow whenever he activated his powers which were quite weak at the time.

at 0k, everything freezes and almost all molecular motion ceases, psionic is apparently exempt.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Bobby arguments are a bit all over the place.

At the end of the day his powers depend on being able to slow down localized vibrations in molecules and particles. He doesn't transmute molecules or anything.

Water is the one thing his powers can manipulate. He's not going to take over non-water based molecules and shut them down because he has no control over anything outside of water.

The H2O molecules gain thermal energy from a system and then that energy is shut down by Iceman.

If he shuts down a reactor or a molten rock it is via the moisture that surrounds said substance/object. Iceman himself is water based for this reason. Unless people want to go against canon?

That's why I'm saying the Iceman arguments are all over the place. Supes generates too much energy externally and internally for Iceman's powers to have an effect, better he can actually split substances at the atomic level.

Supes has has an internal nuclear reactor which will hydrolyse water (the very molecules Iceman needs to control thermal energy).

Oh wow, logic for the first time in 2 pages. Well done mate 🙂

Originally posted by psycho gundam
no, he's called iceman because water vapor is so abundant on planet earth. even when he was new to the x-men as an untrained teen he was covered in snow whenever he activated his powers which were quite weak at the time.

at 0k, everything freezes and almost all molecular motion ceases, psionic is apparently exempt.

He's right, the bobby arugments are all over the place lol.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Easy - Bobby's is conscious, Superman's isn't. Superman's have been invasively permeated by pretty much anybody who has psionic command of molecules - like the aforementioned Manchester Black and Dr. Polaris.

Bobbys Power are psionic.. Which has been shown to overpower god like beings with matter manipulation... So it overrides sups easy...

Supes can manipulate his own matter and generate energy in varied frequencies.

He can even command counter vibrations to affect metaphysical entities. So Bobbies ability to manip water (hence the name Iceman) would be rendered irrelevant by the level of energy radiation Supes brings to the party.

Originally posted by Makky
No what you have done is decided to make her post irrelevent and decided to accept the argument in favor of bobby. The internal contraption supes has going makes what u just said impossible, but again if u refuse to except it that isnt anyone else's problem. Ionizing boby internally can causing him to combust while still in solid form sounds convincing enough for me, but hey if u wanna ignore then more power to you.

Easy - Bobby's is conscious, Superman's isn't. Superman's "forcefields" have been invasively permeated by pretty much anybody who has psionic command of molecules - like the aforementioned Manchester Black and Dr. Polaris.

Bobbys Powers are Sonic ... Thats what marvel says about him... So sonic powers overrides supermans. He commands supermans partials to stop.. Its not really a struggle

it's too early in the morning for trolling dontchya think galen?

on that note, see ya later.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Easy - Bobby's is conscious, Superman's isn't. Superman's "forcefields" have been invasively permeated by pretty much anybody who has psionic command of molecules - like the aforementioned Manchester Black and Dr. Polaris.

Bobbys Powers are Sonic ... Thats what marvel says about him... So sonic powers overrides supermans. He commands supermans partials to stop.. Its not really a struggle

So now the argument is changing, which one is it lol. Sure supes bio aura has been invaded, but there are the other myriad of examples where he has shown great resistence. U gotta look at both sides of the coin somtimes, oh and WTF on sonics overiding supes?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
it's too early in the morning for trolling dontchya think galen?

on that note, see ya later.

Stick on topic, bads already warned agaisnt the basless accusations so dont derail the thread plz.

Originally posted by Makky
So now the argument is changing, which one is it lol. Sure supes bio aura has been invaded, but there are the other myriad of examples where he has shown great resistence. U gotta look at both sides of the coin somtimes, oh and WTF on sonics overiding supes?

Changing Lol this is nothing new.. Sorry but this is old information that has already been talked about in this thread. Its just you do not have a clue what I'm talking about because you like most people do not read an entire thread before debating..

He has never been shown to have great risistance lol he has been shown being hurt via a weaker and indirect method that has nothing to do with the awsome powers of iceman...

But what has been shown is supermans great weakness to pionics like this post you ignore below

Superman's isn't. Superman's "forcefields" have been invasively permeated by pretty much anybody who has psionic command of molecules - like the aforementioned Manchester Black and Dr. Polaris.

Alright if The Stranger has cosmic power and can manipulate molecules doesn't that make him stronger than Superman and more in control of himself? Yet his heat vision was nullified by iceman then he was frozen from the inside out. Also superman is probably 70% water like uhm....most living creatures. So 70% of him would be frozen solid....I don't see him being able to generate enough energy with the remaining 30% of his structure to overpower icemans freezing ability. Unless 30% of supermans cells, that are as far as I'm aware not individually intelligent, are stronger than the strangers full powers then superman gets frozen solid and loses. game over. also no one has yet to state how superman would kill him? by flying him to the sun? Superman would be frozen before he got a mile into the sky. If he wasn't all iceman has to do is leave his body....oh wait he doesnt even needto enter it to freeze it...he can control all h2o

Originally posted by psycho gundam
no, he's called iceman because water vapor is so abundant on planet earth. even when he was new to the x-men as an untrained teen he was covered in snow whenever he activated his powers which were quite weak at the time.

at 0k, everything freezes and almost all molecular motion ceases, psionic is apparently exempt.

He's called iceman because of thermal energy manipulation through the malleable chemical, water.

Thermal energy is based on energy transfer between substances. You need manipulation over matter for that, in Bobby's case this matter is water.

People assume that if he only controls water he must be weak, but they forget to view water as the medium for him to control the thermal energy in systems. That's just the canon explanation of his abilities.

Bobby controls thermal energy remotely by manipulating water molecules, it's that simple. Of course Supes energy levels would make such manipulation irrelevant since he can split matter at the atomic level.

Originally posted by Allankles
He's called iceman because of thermal energy manipulation through the malleable chemical, water.

Thermal energy is based on energy transfer between substances. You need manipulation over matter for that, in Bobby's case this matter is water.

People assume that if he only controls water he must be weak, but they forget to view water as the medium for him to control the thermal energy in systems. That's just the canon explanation of his abilities.

Bobby controls thermal energy remotely by manipulating water molecules, it's that simple. Of course Supes energy levels would make such manipulation irrelevant since he can split matter at the atomic level.

You're arguing (or questioning) from a false assumption. In a world where psionics is a valid and real science, it's not simply purely a function of synapse and impulses. Psionics is such that human consciousness is in a form separate from the physical laws that guide it here. In the Marvel Universe, for example, consciousness is hosted in the Astral Plane. That's how devices like Cerebro work - it locates minds on the Astral Plane, where human consciousness is hosted. Bobby's consciousness is hosted there, and from there, it's able to choose water molecules anywhere on earth as a repository, or rather, avatar for that consciousness.

Your ability to accept that is predicated on being able to view psionics as a proven science, which you would have to do in Marvel. Based upon that, it's perfect acceptable to see how teleportation would work for Bobby.

The energy for the state changes are also psionic. Bobby wills them to vibrate or slow down, and they do so. It's not a natural occurrence, which is where you're getting stuck. The catalyst is a command, not environmental.

All forms of consciousness are housed on the Astral Plane, and all commands are issued from there through the brain as a proxy - for most people. But for psionics of various kinds, they're able to essentially "bypass the middleman" and directly communicate to and from the Astral Plane. In that case, a physical brain is unnecessary - and that's been shown many times by people such as the Shadow King, or Xavier when his physical body died and existed solely on the Astral Plane. Bobby is classified as a psionic - so a physical brain is unnecessary for communicating with the physical world from the astral plane, where his consciousness is stored. So again, you're questioning from an incorrect pretext.

Bobby's consciousness issues commands from the psionic plane, the way Sandman or Electro or any other elemental or disembodied superbeing does and...that's really all there is to it.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Changing Lol this is nothing new.. Sorry but this is old information that has already been talked about in this thread. Its just you do not have a clue what I'm talking about because you like most people do not read an entire thread before debating..

He has never been shown to have great risistance lol he has been shown being hurt via a weaker and indirect method that has nothing to do with the awsome powers of iceman...

But what has been shown is supermans great weakness to pionics like this post you ignore below

Superman's isn't. Superman's "forcefields" have been invasively permeated by pretty much anybody who has psionic command of molecules - like the aforementioned Manchester Black and Dr. Polaris.

It's old inconsistent information that is adjusting itself every other minute, its slowly becoming one giant ad hoc of a debate. You're cherry picking, its as plain and simple as that. I don't get the weakness to psionic conclusion since supes has psionic control over his own energy and matter as well. Im not taking examples which largly contradict what has already been confirmed in regards to supes abilities,really if manchester and polaris are you're only legs maybe u should sit down for awhile.

Originally posted by Vanlore
You're arguing (or questioning) from a false assumption. In a world where psionics is a valid and real science, it's not simply purely a function of synapse and impulses. Psionics is such that human consciousness is in a form separate from the physical laws that guide it here. In the Marvel Universe, for example, consciousness is hosted in the Astral Plane. That's how devices like Cerebro work - it locates minds on the Astral Plane, where human consciousness is hosted. Bobby's consciousness is hosted there, and from there, it's able to choose water molecules anywhere on earth as a repository, or rather, avatar for that consciousness.

Your ability to accept that is predicated on being able to view psionics as a proven science, which you would have to do in Marvel. Based upon that, it's perfect acceptable to see how teleportation would work for Bobby.

The energy for the state changes are also psionic. Bobby wills them to vibrate or slow down, and they do so. It's not a natural occurrence , which is where you're getting stuck. The catalyst is a command, not environmental.

This is misdirection, point being is that water is his repository for his power and this pariticular process of manipulation is usless agaisnt clark.

Originally posted by Vanlore
You're arguing (or questioning) from a false assumption. In a world where psionics is a valid and real science, it's not simply purely a function of synapse and impulses. Psionics is such that human consciousness is in a form separate from the physical laws that guide it here. In the Marvel Universe, for example, consciousness is hosted in the Astral Plane. That's how devices like Cerebro work - it locates minds on the Astral Plane, where human consciousness is hosted. Bobby's consciousness is hosted there, and from there, it's able to choose water molecules anywhere on earth as a repository, or rather, avatar for that consciousness.

Your ability to accept that is predicated on being able to view psionics as a proven science, which you would have to do in Marvel. Based upon that, it's perfect acceptable to see how teleportation would work for Bobby.

The energy for the state changes are also psionic. Bobby wills them to vibrate or slow down, and they do so. It's not a natural occurrence, which is where you're getting stuck. The catalyst is a command, not environmental.

I know that. Which is why I stated earlier that a lot of characters are psionic and the differences between becoming full psionic and only partial is the amount of energy saturation.

In Bobby's case this psionic control functions on H2O. Supes possesses the ability to hydrolyse and split the atoms of said molecules. Also he can affect non corporeal entities.

Supes energy radiation is also psionic i.e. controlled at will. He can generate non particle radiation, and his body is basically like a mini star.

Originally posted by Makky
It's old inconsistent information that is adjusting itself every other minute, its slowly becoming one giant ad hoc of a debate. You're cherry picking, its as plain and simple as that. I don't get the weakness to psionic conclusion since supes has psionic control over his own energy and matter as well. Im not taking examples which largly contradict what has already been confirmed in regards to supes abilities,really if manchester and polaris are you're only legs maybe u should sit down for awhile.

Explain how bobbys power to control kentic energy is inconsistent..

You dont get his weakness to pisonic power to manipulate him on the molecular level..

Well just like the 2 examples i listed of that happening weather you understand them or not is irrelevant its the fact that he does...

In fact the methold of those types of manipulation almost has a 100% success rate in effecting superman in the comics...

Originally posted by Vanlore
Explain how bobbys power to control kentic energy is inconsistent..

You dont get his weakness to pisonic power to manipulate him on the molecular level..

Well just like the 2 examples i listed of that happening weather you understand them or not is irrelevant its the fact that he does...

He has no control over pure kinetic energy. Otherwise he would be stealing speed, pushing and throwing people about with psychokinesis etc.

He has control over thermal energy (Which involves transfer of heat energy between particles). He controls said energy via H2O where the molecules of water absorb energy and then Iceman is able to control the energized H2O molecules surrounding whatever he wants to affect.

Everytime you see Ice man you see frozen water, that's because he's using water to remotely control thermal energy. There's no control of pure kinetic energy, there.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Explain how bobbys power to control kentic energy is inconsistent..

You dont get his weakness to pisonic power to manipulate him on the molecular level..

Well just like the 2 examples i listed of that happening weather you understand them or not is irrelevant its the fact that he does...

What's inconsistent is the arugments being made for bobby is what I was referring to. I got everything u said nice and clear, but the scans u posted have already been refuted and ive already seen counteracts that make those examples irrelevent. Assuming clark was vulnerable to psionic manipulation,his resistence to manipulation at the molecular and atomic level are pretty damn great otherwise he wouldnt have been able to resist trasmutation as often as he has. In the pariticular battle, what bobby needs is to manipulate clarks thermal energy via h20 particles which as explained already is nearly impossible