Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Originally posted by Vanlore
The energy for the state changes are also psionic. Bobby wills them to vibrate or slow down, and they do so. It's not a natural occurrence, which is where you're getting stuck. The catalyst is a command, not environmental. He does not have to catch superman or be super fast...

Bobby's consciousness issues commands from the psionic plane, the way Sandman or Electro or any other elemental or disembodied superbeing does and...that's really all there is to it.

A physical brain is not required to have a consciousness according to psionics. It's just necessary for controlling the human body. All forms of consciousness are housed on the Astral Plane, and all commands are issued from there through the brain as a proxy - for most people. But for psionics of various kinds, they're able to essentially "bypass the middleman" and directly communicate to and from the Astral Plane. In that case, a physical brain is unnecessary - and that's been shown many times by people such as the Shadow King, or Xavier when his physical body died and existed solely on the Astral Plane. Bobby is classified as a psionic - so a physical brain is unnecessary for communicating with the physical world from the astral plane, where his consciousness is stored. So again, you're questioning from an incorrect pretext. I appreciate the effort, though.

Originally posted by Allankles
I know that. Which is why I stated earlier that a lot of characters are psionic and the differences between becoming full psionic and only partial is the amount of energy saturation.

In Bobby's case this psionic control functions on H2O. Supes possesses the ability to hydrolyse and split the atoms of said molecules. Also he can affect non corporeal entities.

Supes energy radiation is also psionic i.e. controlled at will. He can generate non particle radiation, and his body is basically like a mini star.

Iceman would override sups psionic ability since he has been shown many times in the comics as having a weakness to manipulation of molecules and so on and Iceman has been shown to over power god like beings that very power IS to matter manipulation.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Bobby's consciousness issues commands from the psionic plane hello...

And no the spin of the particles did not stop.. LOL, thats a flat out lie or you dont understand what your looking at.

Also yall still talking about how much cold he can take is irrelevant again as its just a side effect from lack of energy in his envierment and nothing to do with psionic control over the spin of his particals.

chrono stasis has something to do with stoppage, particularly of the time kind. His molecules were stopped lol yet he still broke free.

If someone can resist getting cold then they certainly can resist someone trying to slow down their particles.

Originally posted by h1a8
It needs to be proven that Iceman still has access to psionic causation without having a physical h2o form. Bobby may need x amount of moisture (h2o) to occupy his conscience in and to use his powers.

Completly overlooked that too, otherwise that means if supes melts bobby's solid form all his atral powers would mean nothing without a avatar to exercise them, well anyhow gents its been a pleasure but I gotta catch up some sleep.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Iceman would override sups psionic ability since he has been shown many times in the comics as having a weakness to manipulation of molecules and so on and Iceman has been shown to over power god like beings that very power IS to matter manipulation.

Supes has by the same token resisted moleculer transmutation from a skyfather,looks like the fabled weakness to psionics isnt so vulnerable as u think.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the universe can't be 0k....ever. as long as there is energy and matter (which generates and transforms into energy), there will always be a spark of heat somewhere.

and even if there was a spot in the blackest void of deep space outside of the actual collection of matter/energy known as the universe capable of being that temperature, to even witness it would generate some level of heat.

with that considered, in marvel, iceman can shunt even that residual heat away from that spot or his surrounding vivinity. he's even powerful enough to do that when he is in high temperature environments. (peak)

Originally posted by h1a8
chrono stasis has something to do with stoppage, particularly of the time kind. His molecules were stopped lol yet he still broke free.

If someone can resist getting cold then they certainly can resist someone trying to slow down their particles.

No. If superman got hurt by just the cold around him then he surly be in in trouble via direct manipulation ...

No the spin of the particle was not stopped. I like how you keep saying that but its not true.... Even if it was Iceman would hold him in that state and them smash him..

Originally posted by Vanlore
Iceman would override sups psionic ability since he has been shown many times in the comics as having a weakness to manipulation of molecules and so on and Iceman has been shown to over power god like beings that very power IS to matter manipulation.

How would he override Supes psionic control over his molecules or his non particle radiation powers? Ice man doesn't possess the ability to attack Supes psionically.

And even if we propose the idea of occupying Supes water, that H2O gets hydrolyzed by Supes.

Also Supes has resisted a thermal energy goddess before, not to mention a New God trying to shut down his powers using a variant of time manipulation.

Originally posted by h1a8
I doubt Iceman can even reduce a temperature to 30k. I need proof.

read the thread... There is on scans of Iceman absolute Zero.. How can you defend supermans position when you do not even know the basic ability's of the person he is facing?

Originally posted by Allankles
How would he override Supes psionic control over his molecules or his non particle radiation powers? Ice man doesn't possess the ability to attack Supes psionically.

And even if we propose the idea of occupying Supes water, that H2O gets hydrolyzed by Supes.

Also Supes has resisted a thermal energy goddess before, not to mention a New God trying to shut down his powers using a variant of time manipulation.

The same way all the other less powerful psionic and or matter manipulation people did to sups in the comics...

He would command them to stop and they would...

Cold around him is irrelevant... Its stoping his Kentic Energy is what would due sups in...

Originally posted by Vanlore

Cold around him is irrelevant... Its stoping his Kentic Energy is what would due sups in...

Except Iceman doesn't possess the ability to do that, since it's all dependent on matter (in his case H2O), something Supes can split up and convert into his own energy.

Originally posted by Vanlore
There are low feats and high feats..... Like that refuted anything i said ....

He would burn up threw the atmosphere by choice or posses superman's fluid and even if superman took him to the son you do know he can be in many places at once .. Are you reading this?

What Iceman going to do to supes that really hasn't been done before? Your question is Interesting as a statement... Think about that...

He would stop all kenetic energy in his body.. Then break him or put him in his freezer ...

1. Prove that Iceman can stop someone's kinetic energy vs. just slow it down. Prove that he can reduce the temp to 30k or less.

2. Prove that Iceman can be many places at once (as it was never shown), even though this would contradict all of comic book history.

3. Prove that Iceman can slow down the kinetic energy of beings who can resist transmutation.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Prove that Iceman can stop someone's kinetic energy vs. just slow it down. Prove that he can reduce the temp to 30k or less.

2. Prove that Iceman can be many places at once (as it was never shown), even though this would contradict all of comic book history.

3. Prove that Iceman can slow down the kinetic energy of beings who can resist transmutation.

umm... ok .. read the thread .. start on page one.. its all here...

Originally posted by Allankles
The Bobby arguments are a bit all over the place.

At the end of the day his powers depend on being able to slow down localized vibrations in molecules and particles. He doesn't transmute molecules or anything.

Water is the one thing his powers can manipulate. He's not going to take over non-water based molecules and shut them down because he has no control over anything outside of water.

The H2O molecules gain thermal energy from a system and then that energy is shut down by Iceman.

If he shuts down a reactor or a molten rock it is via the moisture that surrounds said substance/object. Iceman himself is water based for this reason. Unless people want to go against canon?

That's why I'm saying the Iceman arguments are all over the place. Supes generates too much energy externally and internally for Iceman's powers to have an effect, better he can actually split substances at the atomic level.

Supes has has an internal nuclear reactor which will hydrolyse water (the very molecules Iceman needs to control thermal energy).

Originally posted by Allankles
Except Iceman doesn't possess the ability to do that, since it's all dependent on matter (in his case H2O), something Supes can split up and convert into his own energy.

YES Great post....

So superman is going to dehydrate himself and turn that into energy lol..... Well it saves Iceman the trouble of doing it..

He would be like... A pile of dirt...

Originally posted by Vanlore
umm... ok .. read the thread .. start on page one.. its all here...

Originally posted by Vanlore
umm... ok .. read the thread .. start on page one.. its all here...

Nothing on this thread proves it. All I see is speculation and hyperbole. That isn't proof.

Originally posted by Vanlore
So superman is going to dehydrate himself and turn that into energy lol..... Well it saves Iceman the trouble of doing it..

Who says superman even has h2o in his fluid?

Originally posted by h1a8
Who says superman even has h2o in his fluid?

I lol at this... 😆

Originally posted by Vanlore
read the thread... There is on scans of Iceman absolute Zero.. How can you defend supermans position when you do not even know the basic ability's of the person he is facing?

Hyperbole along with receiving help doesn't prove anything. Regular Iceman can probably reduce temps down to 70k while full potential maybe 40k. Even this is speculation.