Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman

Started by Naija boy90 pages

Originally posted by Vanlore
Yes He can become pure energy and do basically anything he wants since he is a cosmic level being.

But guess what... When there is 0 kinetic energy there is no energy at all..... Nothing.. Not even light...

what part of "nigh omnipotent cosmic level being" dont u get? The laws of physics dont apply to him in the same way they do to humans and such. not at all. with a thought he should have deactivated icemans Xgene and removed his powers from ever being there. As i said him going from nigh omnipotent cosmic to guy that was punked by matter manipulators is simply PIS and shows the writers of the comic didnt know who he truly was or what he was truly capable of.

Also can someone please put up a scan of the actual instance? So that i can at least see the context in which it happened.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Thermal energy per particle is also called the average translational kinetic energy possessed by free particles given by equipartition of energy.

Thermal energy is the difference between the internal energy of an object and the amount that it would have at absolute zero. It includes the quantity of kinetic energy due to the motion of the internal particles of an object, and is increased by heating and reduced by cooling.

His power is to manipulate (Slow Down or possibly stop) Internal energy which is the total of the kinetic energy due to the motion of molecules (translational, rotational, vibrational) and the potential energy associated with the vibrational and electric energy of atoms within molecules or crystals. It includes the energy in all of the chemical bonds, and the energy of the free, conduction electrons in metals.

All forms of consciousness are housed on the Astral Plane, and all commands are issued from there through the brain as a proxy - for most people. But for psionics of various kinds, they're able to essentially "bypass the middleman" and directly communicate to and from the Astral Plane. In that case, a physical brain is unnecessary - and that's been shown many times by people such as the Shadow King, or Xavier when his physical body died and existed solely on the Astral Plane. Bobby is classified as a psionic - so a physical brain is unnecessary for communicating with the physical world from the astral plane, where his consciousness is stored. So again, you're questioning from an incorrect pretext.

I know what Kinetic energy is, it has many forms, heat, electircal etc.

The point is Iceman is limited to reducing the thermal energy within particles i.e. stopping the vibration of particles within their localized movements, he is not psychokinetic like Manchester Black.

Further he does this via water, manipulating the thermal energy in the H20 molcules. His manipulation of the thermal energy in H2O molecules is why he is called Iceman. He doesn't manipualte particles directly, he manipulates thermal energy via H2O molecules.

Regardless, Supes can pretty much hydolyse those water molecules and he can split them at the atmoic level. He also has psionc control over his own molecules.

Originally posted by Allankles
I know what Kinetic energy is, it has many forms, heat, electircal etc.

The point is Iceman is limited to reducing the thermal energy within particles i.e. stopping the vibration of particles within their localized movements, he is not psychokinetic like Manchester Black.

Further he does this via water, manipulating the thermal energy in the H20 molcules. His manipulation of the thermal energy in H2O molecules is why he is called Iceman. He doesn't manipualte particles directly, he manipulates thermal energy via H2O molecules.

Regardless, Supes can pretty much hydolyse those water molecules and he can split them at the atmoic level. He also has psionc control over his own molecules.

He's called Iceman because in 1960 he could turn into a snowman and throw snowballs.

Originally posted by Allankles
I know what Kinetic energy is, it has many forms, heat, electircal etc.

The point is Iceman is limited to reducing the thermal energy within particles i.e. stopping the vibration of particles within their localized movements, he is not psychokinetic like Manchester Black.

Further he does this via water, manipulating the thermal energy in the H20 molcules. His manipulation of the thermal energy in H2O molecules is why he is called Iceman. He doesn't manipualte particles directly, he manipulates thermal energy via H2O molecules.

Regardless, Supes can pretty much hydolyse those water molecules and he can split them at the atmoic level. He also has psionc control over his own molecules.

I don't think you all know what hydrolysis actually means in biochemistry. It's adding h20 not removing it. You guys are talking about dehydration synthesis. So your argument is null and void.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
I don't think you all know what hydrolysis actually means in biochemistry. It's adding h20 not removing it. You guys are talking about dehydration synthesis. So your argument is null and void.

No they're talking about electrolysis which is "separating chemically bonded compounds by passing an electric current through them"

Also check out hydrogenolysis

Originally posted by shokosugi
No they're talking about electrolysis which is "separating chemically bonded compounds by passing an electric current through them"

In absolute zero, which is what full potential iceman can do, atoms stop moving. Everything does. Taken from softpedia, "Absolute zero is known to be 0 K (-273.15 �C, -459.67 �F) and it's used to describe a theoretical system that neither emits nor absorbs energy. It's like a state where no atom and no subatomic particle moves." So there is no electrolysis or any other olysis that superman can do once he gets frozen to that. Unless we're ignoring science for this debate? Which would be odd since the superman fans are the ones who are trying to use it to win the debate.

unless we're ignoring science?? hahaha...this is superman we're talking about!!! what science??

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
In absolute zero, which is what full potential iceman can do, atoms stop moving. Everything does. Taken from softpedia, "Absolute zero is known to be 0 K (-273.15 �C, -459.67 �F) and it's used to describe a theoretical system that neither emits nor absorbs energy. It's like a state where no atom and no subatomic particle moves." So there is no electrolysis or any other olysis that superman can do once he gets frozen to that. Unless we're ignoring science for this debate? Which would be odd since the superman fans are the ones who are trying to use it to win the debate.

Well such a state is created by Iceman's psionic control over water molecules. Supes too has psionic control over his own molecules, able to increase their kinetic energy at will (so its a stalemate) but better than Ice man he can generate (both internally and externally) non-particle radiation, which would hydrolyze the very H2O molecules Iceman would need to reduce thermal energy in a system.

Originally posted by Allankles
Well such a state is created by Iceman's psionic control over water molecules. Supes too has psionic control over his own molecules, able to increase their kinetic energy at will (so its a stalemate) but better than Ice man he can generate (both internally and externally) non-particle radiation, which would hydrolyze the very H2O molecules Iceman would need to reduce thermal energy in a system.

Finally a competent argument!!! Kudos!

So then I'm assuming theres some evidence to support bobby's powers still being active even after his physical body is destroyed.

^ look back several pages.

his entire form was dispersed in mist form and he was still speaking to his teammates. an he reintigrated himself, that means his powers are still on.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Superman has shown consistent weakness to psionic molecular control and lots have been scan in this thread..

And there powers are very very similar on how they work and on what they do.. there would be no reason that it would be any different...

You never responded to my answer about h20....

Doesn't matter since it can't be proven that Iceman can slow Superman's molecules down significantly. Only speculation exists.

I did respond to your answer. This is what I said.
Again. I already said that Clark can drink water or eat food that contains water but that doesn't mean he is made out of water. His body can possibly break the chemical bonds of water and food he eats to reform new chemicals (of the non h2o kind). This is comics, it is highly possible for this to happen. Also you were begging the question. You said "how did he hydrate himself" when it hasn't been established that he did hydrate himself. This is if you are assuming hydrate oneself means to absorb h2o into one's being. Clark can consume h2o but absorb something totally different.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Guys that have molecular control over there selfs and we are talking about psionic molecular control..

Guys who can erase people from existence > Guy with temp control in moisture regarless of what pseudo comic science explanation you choose to make up.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Iceman has froze celestial ships and has froze the stranger...

Superman froze a cosmic sun eating planet in 1 shot and heated up the Earth in place of the sun.

Originally posted by Vanlore
Umm mmkay that has nothing to do with icemans power... Freeze more area via indirect stimuli does not mean greater than psionic direct control...

Considering Supes has psionic control both ways (heat + cold) and in other ways (reality manip, matter manip, energy absorption, etc) it doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by Vanlore
No his blood cant be made out of anything... Why you ask?

When clark lost his powers on earth.. Did he need to drink water? If so why?

When clark lost his powers anything that would be harmful to a human would harm him so if he has something in his blood or body that hurts a human then when he lost his powers he would just die..

When clark lost his powers.. What did he need to hydrate himself?

He uses h20 to hydrate himself. His powers sustain h2o or produce it but if he lost his powers and he didn't use h20 to hydrate himself your saying clark does not need to drink water even without his powers.. The only things left to hydrate him would kill a normal human.. So therefore he must use h20...

Jesus man. You assume way to much. Like Raoul has already said, not much is known about depowered kryptonians since they are RARELY written. Even if that were the case, we aren't talking about a depowered supes here, we are talking about a fully powered supes. We have no idea what type of changes his body undergoes when he is depowered, it could be vastly physiologically different than his powered body. The simple fact is, we just don't know, and any other claim is just plain speculation.

Originally posted by Avlon
Superman froze a cosmic sun eating planet in 1 shot and heated up the Earth in place of the sun.

Considering Supes has psionic control both ways (heat + cold) and in other ways (reality manip, matter manip, energy absorption, etc) it doesn't really matter.

Could you post the scan of him freezing the suneater.

How does Supes have psionic control of heat and cold?

Edit: Or reality manip and matter manip?

^ Cannibal Planet. Not a traditional suneater technically, IIRC.

Originally posted by Avlon
Considering Supes has psionic control both ways (heat + cold) and in other ways (reality manip, matter manip, energy absorption, etc) it doesn't really matter.
jawdrop 😆

Originally posted by Mindset
Could you post the scan of him freezing the suneater.

Cannibal planet..not the sun eater. It's in the original respect thread somewhere.

Originally posted by Mindset
How does Supes have psionic control of heat and cold?

It's how Supes powers work. The sun is the catalyst for his powers. Most other things are psionic.

Originally posted by Mindset
Edit: Or reality manip and matter manip?

Didn't have time to clarify this since I was at work. However, by the way things are going in this thread...he does have the abilities even if it's subconscious...since he's willed off both reality warps and matter manip.

Oh boy. this is what happens when u allow fanboys to run amuck. We have one side claiming iceman has the powercosmic and now it seems supes in turn has the Odinforce. Freakin hilarious