Originally posted by h1a8
"...cooling the air creates convection currents. makes the heat flow along the gradients I choose." This proves he is doing it indirectly
He's controlling where the heat goes by directly controlling how much heat is in each place. Which would still mean direct control of heat (which is just kinetic energy).
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Water is a fairly small part of the air, even less so when a fire is drying it out inches away from him . . .
This is comics. A penny has enough energy in it to blow up a large state.
Yet matter manipulating beings can create more massive objects with the surrounding air. It never was stated that Iceman can affect the thermal energy of non h2o molecules directly. Assuming he can is speculation and opens up pandora box (which would lead to a plethora of complications and contradictions).
What is even more stupid is that Galactus needs to feed off certain type of planets to sustain himself, otherwise he dies. Isn't all energy the same? Can he just convert energy into any form he wants. He can just change a dead planet's molecules into the kind he needs. His lowly herald the Silver Surfer can manipulate matter on a subatomic scale. Galactus only being sustained by eating these particular type of planets while still being able to manipulate all matter on a subatomic scale is asinine?
Originally posted by Trackz
if two degrees above absolute zero, they can still perform at optimum efficieny, lowering it two degrees will do nothing, Superman pushed the limits of nature, same way the laws of physics tell us nothing can move faster than the speed of light.
Originally posted by LDHZenkaiabsolute zero is defined as the lowest possible temperature, seeing as temperature is a measure of kinetic energy, iceman would have to be able to put out out absolute zero temperatures for a while before supermans molecules actually stopped moving, iceman doesnt have a chance of flash-freezing superman, and seeing as superman can warm himself internally (he has before used internal heat vision), iceman doesn't have a chance here.
THEY CANNOT PERFORM AT ALL AT ABSOLUTE ZERO!!! They can perform at peek performance all they want at above that, but it is impossible for anything to perform at absolute zero. Even in the DC Universe. And i've already posted the definition of what absolute zero is. It's not a specific temperature, it's the point where all atomic movement stops.
Originally posted by Trackz
absolute zero is defined as the lowest possible temperature, seeing as temperature is a measure of kinetic energy, iceman would have to be able to put out out absolute zero temperatures for a while before supermans molecules actually stopped moving, iceman doesnt have a chance of flash-freezing superman, and seeing as superman can warm himself internally (he has before used internal heat vision), iceman doesn't have a chance here.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
THEY CANNOT PERFORM AT ALL AT ABSOLUTE ZERO!!! They can perform at peek performance all they want at above that, but it is impossible for anything to perform at absolute zero. Even in the DC Universe. And i've already posted the definition of what absolute zero is. It's not a specific temperature, it's the point where all atomic movement stops.
Good point, VERY GOOD POINT.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
There was a scan posted earlier where he got flash frozen by some cryostasis thing and says he can feel his blood slowing b/c it's freezing and that he needs to act quicky.
This was chrono stasis which is absolute zero. Yet Superman still broke free. His molecules resisted absolute zero. And anything above absolute zero (like 2k) is like sunshine to him.
Two things.
1. Iceman has never proven to reach absolute zero under his own power. Thus he can't.
2. Iceman manipulates only h2o molecules along with his own flesh. Superman hasn't been proven to be made out of any h2o molecules. Thus it is not certain whether Iceman can freeze him directly.
Originally posted by h1a8
This was chrono stasis which is absolute zero. Yet Superman still broke free. His molecules resisted absolute zero.Two things.
1. Iceman has never proven to reach absolute zero under his own power. Thus he can't.2. Iceman manipulates only h2o molecules along with his own flesh. Superman hasn't been proven to be made out of any h2o molecules. Thus it is not certain whether Iceman can freeze him directly.
So you honestly dont think that ice man can drop temperatures down that far?
Originally posted by LDHZenkaiwho has frozen superman?
Supermans been frozen before by lesser people so explain to me how iceman can't do it. Iceman controls thermal energy. So heatvision is useless. But there's no way of getting all of the superman junkies to listen to reason so feel free to continue disagreeing without overcoming any of the proof that has been posted on the last thousand pages.
Originally posted by kgkg
can't find it do you know what page that was posted?
Originally posted by Trackz
who has frozen superman?
The scan actually showed that Iceman shouldn't be able to affect Superman. Some being put Superman in a chrono stasis block which was to stop all motion of Superman's molecules. Achieving chrono stasis is equivalent to being at absolute zero. So you can say that the being actually froze Superman at absolute zero. Superman's molecules not only resisted absolute zero but he broke free of the chrono stasis block.
Absolute zero is considered a form of infinity, it theoretically can't be reached. If Superman resisted such a thing then anything finite (above absolute zero) will be sunshine to him.
I can show you the scan if you like.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Supermans been frozen before by lesser people so explain to me how iceman can't do it. Iceman controls thermal energy. So heatvision is useless. But there's no way of getting all of the superman junkies to listen to reason so feel free to continue disagreeing without overcoming any of the proof that has been posted on the last thousand pages.
There has been no proof. Just a whole lotta speculation. No one knows for sure whether or not Iceman can even affect Superman. No one has give definitive proof. People have called me out many times on using real world physics and math to explain how superman can easily move multiples of light speed, or my reasoning behind why I believe Surfer has faster hands than WW. You keep talking about absolute zero, but I have yet to see any on panel proof that bobby can reach that temp. I am happy to accept that he can as soon as some proof is posted. Even if he can, that still is not evidence enough to prove that he can affect superman, as superman has broken free from absolute zero temp attacks before, as scans have been posted(or at least it was my understanding that, that is what the scan portrayed). Anyways, like I said, it is far from PROOF, just lots and lots of speculation.
Here is my take on the fight the OP posted. Full potential iceman can still be ko'ed. Now from what I saw, the thread starter just said full potential ice man vs superman, nothing about prep time for iceman. So my understanding is iceman in his normal form, is his human form, not as mist or anything else. Anyways, superman is basically infinitely faster than iceman, so at the sound of the bell superman just zips over and flicks him in the head for the KO before iceman's brain has even processed the sound of the bell. Fight over... Did this really need 60 some odd pages? The fight posed in this thread is a stomp in favor of supes 10 out of 10. If you want to give iceman prep time to become mist or something, then we have another debate, but as it stands, it is a complete and utter stomp.
Anyone disagree?