Originally posted by Mindset
Iceman was blown up while and human form.
Besides, this is not Bobby Drake in human form vs Superman.
Iceman starts Ice'd up. In that form, he has no organs or anything remotely human. He is just pure ice. Thus he cannot be "ko'd" or physically killed.
I think this argument was made like 50 pages ago though. I swear, its a circular debate, and all points where made way before. If someone has anything new to bring to the table, that would be amazing.
Originally posted by LDHZenkai
I couldn't find the page but i only got to page 26. Theres scans of it in here somewhere. I didn't realize there were so many pages though. It looked like some little midget kid with a big head and a freezing gun thing or something if i remember correctly.
That was a young New God called Esak.
Besides that kid, he's fought off another god (a Kryptonian Ice goddess).
Supes can resist this thermal energy manipulations because he has psionic control over the kinetic energy of his molecules.
Yea in that scan it didn't show him resisting the freezing process by any kinetic molecular anything. It just showed him busting out of the iceblock with his strength and then speeding up and fighting. I'm assuming he was able to do that b/c the guy froze him in a block of ice then thought he could just fly away and forget about supes. Bobby wouldn't be freezing him from the outside and leaving. He would be halting all of his molecular movement from the inside out. someone posted above that he could just fly in and flick iceman to knock him out, that would be about the only way. But if they're fighting i'd assume iceman would know superman could do that and would just start off as gas version iceman instead of ice version. Arguing otherwise is saying that it's only ok for superman to start off with an advantage.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ When has Superman ever resisted thermal manipulations on his form through psionic control over the kinetic energy of his molecules? We know that he has had his speed stolen by Wally... is there some other instance where he's shown the ability to control his own kinetic energy molecularly? Scan?
How is Wally relevant to Iceman? Wally manipulates "pure" kinetic energy through the mystical speed force.
Iceman only reduces the kinetic energy in molecules via his psionic control of water molecules. The molecules absorb thermal energy and he reduces that energy by manipulating the molecules.
Supes has survived cryostasis effects and kinetic manipulations from ice godessses and others. He also possess the ability to psionically speed up his own molecules, allowing him to vibrate between dimensions as well as through matter and energy.
Better, he can generate non-particle radiation to hydrolyse water and can use photons to do the same internally. All in all, his body generates its own energy and he has psionic control over the kinetic aspects of his molecules.
Ok there were scans of on panel showing of Iceman at absolute zero in this thread. But in the ocean of posts I did not have the patience to re read the entire thing BUT I did find this... You can read up on it or look it up..
First Appearance: Marvel Comics Presents#74/4
(MCP#74/4) - Firebomb's bomb was stopped by Iceman and the Human Torch. Alicia and Manhattan were saved from the big bang as the molecular motion in the bomb was stopped by bringing its temperature down to absolute zero.
Ok that's pretty clear.. You cant get much more clear about that.. Even without the statement of the comic title and just the action of doing that would demenstate absolute zero.. You would have to be willingly ignorant to take that out of context 😂
Yes I know It's not a scan but you can make use of that little thing called google and look it up at marvel, the issue and read the about section or whatever.. So now you dont have to ever say again that this is something Iceman can not do 💃
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I think clothes should suffice. It may seem small but it is still inanimate and full of cloth, texture, ect.Heres the only scan I have available on the matter since Im not on my computer, and its not much. He is just referencing it on how he is going to get the group to Maine (the indirect reference being Moisture Inversion) :
http://img332.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icemanaoa0wm.jpgAll other scans I have are of him doing it to himself only, though he did have clothes on...
The absolute zero event happened when Torchs wife is trapped and Iceman is helping save her. Torch is about to melt the trigger, but Iceman stops him after he noticed that theres a sensor that would detonate if the trigger is melted or removed.
Iceman decides to freeze the trigger to absolute zero to stop it. He mentions that he needs to freeze it to where all molecular motion stops. Although he did get help from Torch by absorbing the ambient heat, that was only to make the temp drop happen faster. No doubts Iceman could have done it alone. It just probably would have took longer. Enjoy.
http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcp7432sa1.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcp7433el4.jpgFor point of reference, he has shut down chemical reactions to both the Black Bird and Sunfire
Ah I see you posted this before
😮
Originally posted by h1a8yeah I think that scan would be important
The scan actually showed that Iceman shouldn't be able to affect Superman. Some being put Superman in a chrono stasis block which was to stop all motion of Superman's molecules. Achieving chrono stasis is equivalent to being at absolute zero. So you can say that the being actually froze Superman at absolute zero. Superman's molecules not only resisted absolute zero but he broke free of the chrono stasis block.Absolute zero is considered a form of infinity, it theoretically can't be reached. If Superman resisted such a thing then anything finite (above absolute zero) will be sunshine to him.
I can show you the scan if you like.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0to phase through objects, he vibrates his molecules at lightspeed (this is how wally has stated it is done at least)
^ When has Superman ever resisted thermal manipulations on his form through psionic control over the kinetic energy of his molecules? We know that he has had his speed stolen by Wally... is there some other instance where he's shown the ability to control his own kinetic energy molecularly? Scan?
Originally posted by Vanlorewell he had human torches help to absorb the ambient heat, and no one has said before that iceman can't freeze objects to absolute zero, only that it wouldnt work on superman seeing as he can control his molecules.
Ok there were scans of on panel showing of Iceman at absolute zero in this thread. But in the ocean of posts I did not have the patience to re read the entire thing BUT I did find this... You can read up on it or look it up..First Appearance: Marvel Comics Presents#74/4
(MCP#74/4) - Firebomb's bomb was stopped by Iceman and the Human Torch. Alicia and Manhattan were saved from the big bang as the molecular motion in the bomb was stopped by bringing its temperature down to absolute zero.
Ok that's pretty clear.. You cant get much more clear about that.. Even without the statement of the comic title and just the action of doing that would demenstate absolute zero.. You would have to be willingly ignorant to take that out of context 😂
Yes I know It's not a scan but you can make use of that little thing called google and look it up at marvel, the issue and read the about section or whatever.. So now you dont have to ever say again that this is something Iceman can not do 💃
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Simple question. When has Superman shown the ability to psionically control the kinetic energy of his own molecules? Scans. Now.
Vibrating, past Doomsday's attacks in Rex.
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7039/doomsdayrex209tq.jpg He vibrates through Doomsday's fists, vibrating your body like that involves movement at the molecular level and given he doesn't have a speed force it suggest he can speed up his own molecules at will.
Or he could be shaking himself very quickly, 😉 but last I checked shaking yourself doesn't make you phase through solid objects.
He also vibratated to save the Earth and the omniverse (shifting dimensions) but I can't find the scans. There are other times where's he's truned invisible etc by vibrating his molecules.
In case anyone doubts Supes has psionic abilities. Here he shows he can project a part of himself outside of his body, he can make psionic constructs.
Originally posted by Trackz
we dont know if it works the same in marvel.
HHHHUHH, I dont even know why this is still being debated about superman going light speed when there have been 3 writers along with supermans current writer saying that superman cant achieve light speed unless he's in hyper space.
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
how does superman get to hyper space in the first place if he cant achieve ftl? 😕
I dont know but thats what mcduffie said in his article along with numerous of other writers. I guess the point that they were trying to make was that he cant go light speed because after he said that he said that even in space superman still strains to get to that point of speed.
