Originally posted by h1a8
why not? He only has peak human durability. And DM can teleport him outside his shield or inside the sun.there was no evidence of a God in Watchmen, therefore no evidence of souls. The writer's universe was believed as Hawking or what most theoretical physicists believe. Caring doesn't imply a soul. Animals care but have no souls.
No, he's traded blows with colossus so his durability aint peak human. Nice try though. Like to see a display of power showing Manhattan cracking shields that nukes can't
Originally posted by krisblaze
That doesn't make any sense.If Proteus can't access the reality behind Magneto's shield, then Manhattan sure isn't.
Originally posted by h1a8
why not? He only has peak human durability. And DM can teleport him outside his shield or inside the sun.there was no evidence of a God in Watchmen, therefore no evidence of souls. The writer's universe was believed as Hawking or what most theoretical physicists believe. Caring doesn't imply a soul. Animals care but have no souls.
There IS evidence; his name is Alan Moore. Furthermore, as Watchmen is a subset of the DCU, which has the Presence, then there IS a creator.
In addition, your definition of a soul, is exactly what describes Manhattan. The part of John Osterman that was immaterial, immortal, was separable from the body oh John at death, was capable of moral judgment, and was susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.....all of these describe Manhattan to a T.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ah OK. If I'm reading you right, correct me if I'm wrong (and I apologise), you're saying Surfer's telepathy is limited to mind reading only, and that he lacks the ability to mount a telepathic offense?
Originally posted by h1a8
agreed!
So at least you agree Manhattan is open to being mind read. Right? So telepathy would work on him. They will be linked.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Just because D.C. owns Watchmen doesn't mean they are part of their universe. There is no Superman, Batman, etc. in the Watchmen universe. So how can they be a subset?
There IS evidence; his name is Alan Moore. Furthermore, as Watchmen is a subset of the DCU, which has the Presence, then there IS a creator.In addition, your definition of a soul, is exactly what describes Manhattan. The part of John Osterman that was immaterial, immortal, was separable from the body oh John at death, was capable of moral judgment, and was susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.....all of these describe Manhattan to a T.
So at least you agree Manhattan is open to being mind read. Right? So telepathy would work on him. They will be linked.
No, everything in the universe is matter, energy, space, and time. No God, no creator, and thus no souls that live on after death. This is the common scientific belief of the universe. Basically, DM will become God as hinted at the end of watchmen.
Animals are moral, can be happy, etc. They have no souls. Emotions doesn't mean a soul.
We are arguing soul in the traditional sense. As in created soul (magical in nature).
I'm aware of that Surfer feat. That's why I stated "without a plot device".
Surfer used a plot device in that feat.
Originally posted by h1a8
Just because D.C. owns Watchmen doesn't mean they are part of their universe. There is no Superman, Batman, etc. in the Watchmen universe. So how can they be a subset?No, everything in the universe is matter, energy, space, and time. No God, no creator, and thus no souls that live on after death. This is the common scientific belief of the universe. Basically, DM will become God as hinted at the end of watchmen.
Animals are moral, can be happy, etc. They have no souls. Emotions doesn't mean a soul.
We are arguing soul in the traditional sense. As in created soul (magical in nature).
I'm aware of that Surfer feat. That's why I stated "without a plot device".
Surfer used a plot device in that feat.
Earth-4, here's a map to help you:
http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/Multiversity_Map_2400_53ee6b4c22d9a9.11031355.jpg
As you can see, Earth-4 (which is the Watchmen Earth) is part of the DC Multiverse.
What was the plot device? Pray, tell.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, wut?You're using the no limits fallacy argument?
DM fails to kill SS and now Magneto.
Be real.
Sin tried spinning that and now everyone is happily accepting it as fact.
The quantum field exists everywhere, inside his shields, his body, his DNA.
DM has access to that and can manipulate it.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
DM fails to kill SS and now Magneto.Be real.
Sin tried spinning that and now everyone is happily accepting it as fact.
The quantum field exists everywhere, inside his shields, his body, his DNA.
DM has access to that and can manipulate it.
You're basing that, however, on DM doing that to a tank and some Vietnamese soldiers, Rorschach etc.
To then scale it up to Magneto - surely THAT is no-limits fallacy??
At least when kris used the Proteus example - well, he was using one of the more powerful reality manipulators around. The gap between Proteus and Manhattan (if any) is surely smaller than the gap between a tank and Magneto? Rorschach and Mags?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're basing that, however, on DM doing that to a tank and some Vietnamese soldiers, Rorschach etc.To then scale it up to Magneto - surely THAT is no-limits fallacy??
At least when kris used the Proteus example - well, he was using one of the more powerful reality manipulators around. The gap between Proteus and Manhattan (if any) is surely smaller than the gap between a tank and Magneto? Rorschach and Mags?
So what you are saying is his power set is irrelevant based on him manipulating matter because he only atomized tanks and humans.
From your point of view then he would not even be able to kill wolverine..based on he never manipulated adamentium.
Even though he can manipulate physical objects. Since he never manipulated any metal in marvel. It does not count.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So what you are saying is his power set is irrelevant based on him manipulating matter because he only atomized tanks and humans.From your point of view then he would not even be able to kill wolverine..based on he never manipulated adamentium.
Even though he can manipulate physical objects. Since he never manipulated any metal in marvel. It does not count.
You don't have to be able to manipulate adamantium to kill Wolverine 😈
But yes, my point is that you can't just scale them up. Ozymandias displayed feats of speed - does that mean he's now faster than Batman? Quicksilver? Flash? Where does it stop?
Manhattan manipulated tanks and humans. Can he do the same to adamantium? WW's bracers? Mjolnir? Superman? The GL power battery? Swamp Thing? The Source? The Presence?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You don't have to be able to manipulate adamantium to kill Wolverine 😈But yes, my point is that you can't just scale them up. Ozymandias displayed feats of speed - does that mean he's now faster than Batman? Quicksilver? Flash? Where does it stop?
Manhattan manipulated tanks and humans. Can he do the same to adamantium? WW's bracers? Mjolnir? Superman? The GL power battery? Swamp Thing? The Source? The Presence?
I think since we use relevant feats for basis on debates, a similar character in his category would be Captain Atom. They have similar matter manipulation abilities.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
DM fails to kill SS and now Magneto.Be real.
Sin tried spinning that and now everyone is happily accepting it as fact.
The quantum field exists everywhere, inside his shields, his body, his DNA.
DM has access to that and can manipulate it.
I didn't spin anything. You and h1 are basing your arguments off hyperbole and opinion. Not on panel feats. That's not how these debates work. Just because Manhattan atomized a tank or a baseline human it's not a safe or fair assumption he can do it to Magneto. The difference in power is astronomical. Especially given what we have actually seen Magneto tank on panel. His shields are uber. Manhattan cant teleport behind it, he cant bfr Magneto. He hasn't shown greater control of energy. This us y watchmen shouldn't be used. Voidt killed an aged comedian, an aged n.o and Rorschach yet some people think hes a match for wayne or rogers.
