Originally posted by DarkSaint85The match wasn't a stalemate in your scenario.
So in a sports match, when you're stalemated at 0-0, and one team gets bored and stops playing, its still a stalemate?OK.
In most comic vs. matches here when we state stalemate it means that neither character can theoretically ko or kill the other. Assuming that neither is immortal. Otherwise, the one who lives the longest wins. But that is against the spirit of comic vs. debate.
Arguing against the spirit is just crafty trolling IMO.
Originally posted by h1a8
The match wasn't a stalemate in your scenario.In most comic vs. matches here when we state stalemate it means that neither character can theoretically ko or kill the other. Assuming that neither is immortal. Otherwise, the one who lives the longest wins. But that is against the spirit of comic vs. debate.
Arguing against the spirit is just crafty trolling IMO.
Well, it doesn't end in a stalemate because I was using soul rip and/or telepathy, which were the original tactics.
You then defined a soul, then suddenly, inserted the word 'magical'. Even though your original definition didn't have that word anywhere. Why did you then use that original definition, flawed as it was?
You then somehow argue that the Watchmen universe wasn't part of the DC multiverse. Check pre-52, I'm not doing your homework for you. But it is indeed part of it.
Then you tried saying Surfer has no offensive telepathy, and can only read minds. I show that once he creates a psychic link, he can channel all of the power cosmic down it.
Then....yeah. You're just grasping at straws now. Using the character argument, when your own signature argues against using it, lol.
Originally posted by Magnon
The Watchmen universe is a "scientific" universe. Is there any evidence of its inhabitants, particularly DM, possessing the religious/supernatural property known as the "soul"?
Well, h1 already defined a soul. And it fits Manhattan to a T. Just because it was not defined as being a soul in that exact word, 'soul', does not mean it does not exist.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I think since we use relevant feats for basis on debates, a similar character in his category would be Captain Atom. They have similar matter manipulation abilities.
Oooh dangerous ground there, mate. We wouldn't want to do that.
DCnU Captain Atom was overloaded with energy and dissipated in his fight with Megala; considering the power output Surfer can kick out, would you say that Surfer overloads Manhattan? Course not. I wouldn't say something like that, and nor would you. But they are both similar, I agree.
Originally posted by Magnon
The following is an invalid argument: "I will call the WU property "X" a soul. Surfer can suck MU souls. Ha! Therefore Surfer can suck "X"!"
True. I agree. 100%. 👆. I wish I had a bigger thumb. So does my gf.
How about this:
"You have defined a soul to have property 'X'. Surfer can suck properties with the same characteristics as 'X'. Ha! Therefore, Surfer can suck 'X'!"
THAT is the argument I am making.
I think I get what you mean. However, the souls in MU are some kind of spiritual thingies all people possess, which can be drained, stolen, or transferred to some heavenly/hellish dimension. Such a concept likely does not exist in WU. Due to the failed nuclear experiment, the universal quantum field of the WU got equipped with Osterman's consciousness: this is qualitatively completely different from MU souls. (This is also a unique event in the WU. When regular WU people die, they probably just decompose and rot.)
Besides, DM is pretty much the "god" of that quantum field. It is highly unlikely that Surfer could manipulate it better than DM himself (if at all), so his consciousness should be safe there. It's somewhat alike Surfer trying to drain soul from Mephisto.
The concept DOES exist, albeit as a concept only, I agree; much like our world. Rorschach for example is meant to have excelled in religious studies (so there IS some kind of belief system).
However, we're both getting bogged down in 'perhaps' and 'unlikely' and 'its'.
DM being the god, however, doesn't count for much when he's the only one there, IMO. Ozymandias was the smartest man in that world; does that automatically make him smarter than Reed, Terrific et al? Batman is the most dangerous man alive in the DCU; does that give him the auto win against every human male?
Originally posted by Sin I AM
We dont know the degree of Manhattans power output
We know that he recreated his power for man and it was used to blow up every major city in the world. Is that up for debate now?
We know he can go anywhere he wants, and create a complex moving structure from nothing but thin air and control it with his mind without any trouble.
We know he can change elements on the fly, turing metal to glass, and air to gold
Manipulate anything he chooses, create air in Mars, create forcefield.
Has near limitless TK ability.
Psionic control
Blast control
Particle and molecule control
Walk the surface of the sun.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
We know that he recreated his power for man and it was used to blow up every major city in the world. Is that up for debate now?We know he can go anywhere he wants, and create a complex moving structure from nothing but thin air and control it with his mind without any trouble.
We know he can change elements on the fly, turing metal to glass, and air to gold
Manipulate anything he chooses, create air in Mars, create forcefield.
Has near limitless TK ability.
Psionic control
Blast control
Particle and molecule control
Walk the surface of the sun.
No
