Let's go through the advantages that Malak has over Mace:
-Strength
-Height
-Reach
-Experience
The reach keeps Mace away from Malak; Height gives Maul the greater force with his lightsaber attacks; Strength adds onto the advantages of Reach and Height; Experience gives him the edge since Mace has defeated one person intent on killing him.
Now, for Revan's advantages of Luke:
-Experience
I can't argue height, since we don't know Revan's, but the main thing is his ability to fight someone with a lightsaber. Luke fought about 2 times as less as Revan, and Revan's opponents would probably be the harder ones.
Originally posted by Fishy
A sith is more powerful then a Vong... And Revan and Malak both killed more Mandelorians then Luke killed vong, so that hardly matters
LOL...sorry Fishy.
a) Give me some proof that Malak and Revan personaly defeated more Mandalorians than Luke defeated YV's on their own.
b) Even if you can do that (and I doubt that) the normal Yuuzhan Vong is TWICE as strong as every human soldier (Mandalorians are humanoid), their warriors are even stronger and their slayers are stronger than the warriors. Not to mention the Supreme Overlord who is even stronger than the slayers.
c) All of the Yuuzhan Vong warriors and slayers wear meleeweapons that can't be penetrated by a lightsaber and armours that can't be penetrated by a lightsaber.
d) They are nearly immune to force effects.
e) Kyp Durron who is said to be the strongest force user in the NJO (except the Solo children and Luke himself) couldn't kill a single YV slayer. Luke wasted 7 of them at once and instakilled another one of them.
So much for Mandalorians and Sith > Vong.
And again the Revan fanbias hits the thread hard.
Revan actually could have more potential than Luke, full potential anakin is 200% as powerful as sidious luke is 80% as powerful as his father which is 160% Revan pwns the crap out of sidious power wise so he could very possibly be in the 170%-180% range.
Go on and PROOVE it. There is actualy NO way to come close to Lukes force potential except being Anakins son. Well maybe you want to contradict Lucas himself on that point. I won't.
And have you ever come across the "Dark Empire" comics ? Sidious unleashed a force storm that "beamed" Luke through the entire galaxy. He could destroy entire fleets with his sheer force powers. I know that he had a crystal that added to his force powers but still that is quite impressive. So much for Revan "pwning" Sidious. That's senseless.
Revan had tons of experience fighting force users Luke had less and the force users he fought would get wrecked by Revan easily, The only impressive thing Luke did was kill a bunch of vong in a fight, other then that what has he done that's so great, manipulate some animals? change gravity a little bit? Revan killed many more people than luke did as well as many many jedi and sith and many mandalorians both of which are more skilled then vong. Revan in the end has much more knowledge of the force and lightsaber combat, tons of practice at both, more practice against force users equal or greater potential, sith artifacts that give him power and equal speed, now throw in that he can identify luke's form as form 5 and exploit the weaknesses in it as well as having battle pre-cog which will keep him always at least one step ahead of luke and he can definitley win.
Yeah. I can see Revan "wrecking" Vader and Sidious "easily". Muhar.
The force users Revan fought would get destroyed by Luke in the blink of an eye except Malak - the rest of them is pretty much crap when it comes to force use and lightsaber combat. If you don't believe me go and play KOTOR again. That also counts for Mandalorians (watch their champions vs the Exile in KOTOR II) and all kinds of "sith" except the Sith Lords.
And if you want to base everything on how many people other people killed.
Luke:
- destroyed the death star (more than a 100.000+ dead people)
- several thousands of YV (see above)
- several hundrets of stormtroopers
- dozens of headhunters (ROTJ, SotE)
- Black Sun members (SotE - Darth Maul had problems with them)
- an entire Academy of Dark Jedi
- cloned Sidious
- tons of dark siders, rests of the Imperial army and so on...
"Change gravity a bit" ? Please think about how much force power it would require to change gravity. And do I have to tell you that one of Lukes students could tear down an entire mountain with his force powers ?
And for lightsaber combat: Luke received personal training from Obi-Wans spirit (form III mastery), Yodas spirit (form IV mastery), Anakins spirit (form V mastery) not to say that he pretty likely used his own fighting style (two lightsabers) that was enough to wreck thousands of pretty strong warriors that were trained in melee combat for their entire life (YV) ?
At least I'm getting bored to explain people how Revans battle pre-cog works. Please take a look at the "Yoda vs Revan" thread for that point.
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
LOL...sorry Fishy.a) Give me some proof that Malak and Revan [b]personaly
defeated more Mandalorians than Luke defeated YV's on their own.b) Even if you can do that (and I doubt that) the normal Yuuzhan Vong is TWICE as strong as every human soldier (Mandalorians are humanoid), their warriors are even stronger and their slayers are stronger than the warriors. Not to mention the Supreme Overlord who is even stronger than the slayers.
c) All of the Yuuzhan Vong warriors and slayers wear meleeweapons that can't be penetrated by a lightsaber and armours that can't be penetrated by a lightsaber.
d) They are nearly immune to force effects.
e) Kyp Durron who is said to be the strongest force user in the NJO (except the Solo children and Luke himself) couldn't kill a single YV slayer. Luke wasted 7 of them at once and instakilled another one of them.
So much for Mandalorians and Sith > Vong.
And again the Revan fanbias hits the thread hard.
Go on and PROOVE it. There is actualy NO way to come close to Lukes force potential except being Anakins son. Well maybe you want to contradict Lucas himself on that point. I won't.
And have you ever come across the "Dark Empire" comics ? Sidious unleashed a force storm that "beamed" Luke through the entire galaxy. He could destroy entire fleets with his sheer force powers. I know that he had a crystal that added to his force powers but still that is quite impressive. So much for Revan "pwning" Sidious. That's senseless.
Yeah. I can see Revan "wrecking" Vader and Sidious "easily". Muhar.
The force users Revan fought would get destroyed by Luke in the blink of an eye except Malak - the rest of them is pretty much crap when it comes to force use and lightsaber combat. If you don't believe me go and play KOTOR again. That also counts for Mandalorians (watch their champions vs the Exile in KOTOR II) and all kinds of "sith" except the Sith Lords.
And if you want to base everything on how many people other people killed.
Luke:
- destroyed the death star (more than a 100.000+ dead people)
- several thousands of YV (see above)
- several hundrets of stormtroopers
- dozens of headhunters (ROTJ, SotE)
- Black Sun members (SotE - Darth Maul had problems with them)
- an entire Academy of Dark Jedi
- cloned Sidious
- tons of dark siders, rests of the Imperial army and so on..."Change gravity a bit" ? Please think about how much force power it would require to change gravity. And do I have to tell you that one of Lukes students could tear down an entire mountain with his force powers ?
And for lightsaber combat: Luke received personal training from Obi-Wans spirit (form III mastery), Yodas spirit (form IV mastery), Anakins spirit (form V mastery) not to say that he pretty likely used his own fighting style (two lightsabers) that was enough to wreck thousands of pretty strong warriors that were trained in melee combat for their entire life (YV) ?
At least I'm getting bored to explain people how Revans battle pre-cog works. Please take a look at the "Yoda vs Revan" thread for that point. [/B]
First, why does everyone bring up Anakin in these threads? We don't know if Anakin's father actually is the force. It is never stated, and the prophesy could be a lie. So that gets rid of the whole Luke being X amount of the force. He could be some random guys son for Christ sake and be this powerful.
Sith are different from Vong. I'm not going to argue they're more powerful, but their definately different. Vong do not use the force, they do not use a lightsaber, they do not have as quick of reflexes. Vong, without armour, would get killed by Sith.
Luke uses Form 5 from what I've heard from you, and his two saber thing was Form 10 probably.
Originally posted by HimoKun
First, why does everyone bring up Anakin in these threads? We don't know if Anakin's father actually is the force. It is never stated, and the prophesy could be a lie. So that gets rid of the whole Luke being X amount of the force. He could be some random guys son for Christ sake and be this powerful.
And again: Lucas himself said that a full developed Anakin would be the most powerful force user ever. Why people still arguing that. So that makes Luke the son of the most powerful force user ever. How would Revan surpass him in potential ?
And please keep in mind that even entire species of force users or families that contained many force users (for example the Quel-Droma family) never produced children that came anywhere close to Luke / Anakin.
Sith are different from Vong. I'm not going to argue they're more powerful, but their definately different. Vong do not use the force, they do not use a lightsaber, they do not have as quick of reflexes. Vong, without armour, would get killed by Sith.
Vong without armour would be still pocess a greater physical strength than the people named "sith" running around in the KOTOR games. Kreia said that these ones were no "real" Sith.
And well...I used Bao'dur, Mira and the Handmaiden for the action in Freedon Nadds tomb (KOTOR II). At the end three "Sith" aimed with lightsabers got defeated by three none force users...
Luke uses Form 5 from what I've heard from you, and his two saber thing was Form 10 probably.
Luke used form V in ROTJ. Form V uses sheer strength (both handed lightsaber strikes) what can't be done with two lightsabers of course.
You can also see Anakin switching his style when he used two lightsabers against Dooku in AotC. As you would use fast offensive movements that is likely something like form VII (just a guess).
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
And again: Lucas himself said that a full developed Anakin would be the most powerful force user ever. Why people still arguing that. So that makes Luke the son of the most powerful force user ever. How would Revan surpass him in potential ?And please keep in mind that even entire species of force users or families that contained many force users (for example the Quel-Droma family) never produced children that came anywhere close to Luke / Anakin.
Vong without armour would be still pocess a greater physical strength than the people named "sith" running around in the KOTOR games. Kreia said that these ones were no "real" Sith.
And well...I used Bao'dur, Mira and the Handmaiden for the action in Freedon Nadds tomb (KOTOR II). At the end three "Sith" aimed with lightsabers got defeated by three none force users...Luke used form V in ROTJ. Form V uses sheer strength (both handed lightsaber strikes) what can't be done with two lightsabers of course.
You can also see Anakin switching his style when he used two lightsabers against Dooku in AotC. As you would use fast offensive movements that is likely something like form VII (just a guess).
I never said that Anakin wouldn't be strong, I just said we don't know if his father was the force.