Anakin may be the chosen one. It's not necessarily fact (to my knowledge anyway). If it weren't for Anakin, Mace would've done his job for him.
Next we have Luke who not only was the sole reason that the Sith fell, but he was also the one to restore the Jedi knights which wouldn't have happened otherwise. I really think Luke is the chosen one. The title isn't even a sign of power though, you don't even have to be a Jedi according to the Episode 3 novel.
Oh my god, has this thread gone crazy.
First off, Nai Fohl does his homework, I will give him that. But I'm about to attempt and end this silly stalemate.
-Luke: The product of dozens of EU games, novels, and even RPG modules. His exploits read like a hypochondriac's medchart- simply nuts. But since Lucas can't be bothered to separate the bullshit fanfic from the serious works that continue the series, Luke's absolutely bullshit abilities stand. (Come on... you can rip on Revan and Exar Kun and Ragnos all day long, but Luke? Jesus. Next he'll bring back the dead and find Elvis. What a crock of shit.)
- Revan: His exploits total two games. As of those two games, he is already generally held as a powerful ancient Sith. His power ranges (accoring to opinions based on those two games) somewhere between above Sidious anmd perhaps around or below Exar Kun. This isn't really up for debate, since I made it such a general figure... if you're not happy with it, piss off. Now, I imagine if he was in the movies, and everyone liked him for thirty years, his accomplishments might read like the pile of unbelieveable shit that Luke has going for him. I mean, from Nai's post I learned more NJO BS than I had ever learned. And I am reminded why I don't read NJO or Dark Empire novels. ANd why I hate the stupid, senseless Vong. The real conflict should ALWAYS be between the light and dark side of the Force, not some unrealistic (Even for sci-fi) myserty aliens with über powers and Force immunity (Which shouldn't be possible).
- Malak: I proved time and again how he is superior to Mace. Let it drop. Mace is good, I know. But I read Shatterpoint, and I watched him in the movies, and I've heard all there is to yaw about from the Episode III novel which takes a hell of a lot of liberty with the plotline, and I still say Malak beats him. Let it end.
First off,
- I doubt that Revan has more Force potential than Luke. Highly doubt it. More knowledge? Definetely. More raw power? No. Now, his vast knowledge of the Force and many hidden techniques would give him his biggest advantage against Luke. Not to mention that he probably mastered a Form or two, and surely knew the basics and fundamentals of many, if not all, the others. But many people make Luke sound like a sissy because there were no Sith in his time after the fall of the last Sith, the Reborn Emperor Sidious. That in no manner discounts his power and skill. Now, it makes it more difficult to prove it, but you acn't honestly say that Luke is less powerful than Revan. Also, the term "potential" is commonly misinterpreted. It is a cap, a limit, an estimate to how powerful a Force-sensitive being may become. Many never reach this limit; no one else presents a better example than Anakin Skywalker himself. But for someone who maxes out this "cap", I can think of no better example than Lord Revan. I think that he, in some ways, surpassed his potential limit. While Luke has more raw power, Revan's knowledge and technique with the Force would greatly assist him, even to the point where he could fight Luke almost to a standstill. Almost. After a prolonged fight however, Luke would triumph, unless Revan is assisted by Malak, which I find to be likely. Now, onto Mace and Malak.
I believed Malak to be undoubtedly superior to Mace. I think now that same thing, just without as much certainty. While I still believe that Malak is, in terms of Force power, stronger than Mace Windu, I think he may have a slight chance in finding a weakness in Malak. I still stand by my original decision; that Mace would fall to the Sith. But now I think he'd put up better fight. POints for Mace would include:
- Invented Vaapad in his teens; don't know if it was ever done before.
- Only known master in all history of his Juyo/Vaapad style
- Admitted onto High Council and given rank of Jedi Master by the age of 28.
- Gave former Jedi Master, later Sith Lord, a good fight at least fifteen, tweny years before the Great Jedi Purge.
- Thought by many to be second in power only to Master Yoda.
- Often considered leader of the Council.
- Was a frontline General in the Clone Wars.
- Single-handedly defeated hundreds of Battle Droids and Super Battle Droids, and led Clones to kill many thousands more.
- Won the Battle of Dantooine by destroying a Seismic Tank single-handedly.
- Defeated Assaj Ventress in single combat.
- Defeated General Grievous in single combat. Grievous was known to have defeated five Jedi at Hypori, including Council members Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti. Later in Labyrinth of Evil, defeats four Jedi Knights simultaneously. Carries the lightsabers of over a dozen Jedi at his belt, all of which fell at his hands.
- Fought the Dark Lord of the Sith, Sidious, and gave him a difficult battle after the Sith Lord killed three of Windu's compatriots in seconds. (This battle is controversial, but I think Sidious let Mace "win" when Anakin came in; I think he was serious before though.)
I'm too lazy and short of time to type the equivalent of Malak's reasons, but here goes:
- Was Revan's right hand man in the wars they fought together.
- Second in power and dueling skill only to Revan himself.
- Controlled the Star Forge, a feat that, at the time, only Revan and Malak himself could accomplish.
- Led dozens, hundreds of dark Jedi into battle, and was a General in the Mandalorian Wars.
- Was Dark Lord of the Sith for a few years, a title he stole from Revan.
There's more, but I'll get to that alter. I just know more about Mace. But I do still think Malak would kill Mace after a good duel. He has to be the equivalent, if not superior, of Emperor Sidious.
And before anyone goes on about the Star Forge....
The Star Forge draws on Force abilities of its controller. It is said in KOTOR II (If you choose Revan to be evil) that none of the other Sith could control the Star Forge after Malak died and Revan left. Thus it stands that just not ANY Sith or even ANY Force user could use the artifact. Also note that Malak was fuelling the Star Forge itself using captured Jedi, pushing it up to 200% capacity. The Star Forge is not simply a factory, it's a focusing point for the Force, created artificially. Meaning? Perhaps nothing. Perhaps something. Either way, only Malak and Revan could control the Star Forge. Not even dark side Bastila could, and she was considered a prodigy among the order.
Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Oh my god, has this thread gone crazy.First off, Nai Fohl does his homework, I will give him that. But I'm about to attempt and end this silly stalemate.
-Luke: The product of dozens of EU games, novels, and even RPG modules. His exploits read like a hypochondriac's medchart- simply nuts. But since Lucas can't be bothered to separate the bullshit fanfic from the serious works that continue the series, Luke's absolutely bullshit abilities stand. (Come on... you can rip on Revan and Exar Kun and Ragnos all day long, but Luke? Jesus. Next he'll bring back the dead and find Elvis. What a crock of shit.)
- Revan: His exploits total two games. As of those two games, he is already generally held as a powerful ancient Sith. His power ranges (accoring to opinions based on those two games) somewhere between above Sidious anmd perhaps around or below Exar Kun. This isn't really up for debate, since I made it such a general figure... if you're not happy with it, piss off. Now, I imagine if he was in the movies, and everyone liked him for thirty years, his accomplishments might read like the pile of unbelieveable shit that Luke has going for him. I mean, from Nai's post I learned more NJO BS than I had ever learned. And I am reminded why I don't read NJO or Dark Empire novels. ANd why I hate the stupid, senseless Vong. The real conflict should ALWAYS be between the light and dark side of the Force, not some unrealistic (Even for sci-fi) myserty aliens with über powers and Force immunity (Which shouldn't be possible).
- Malak: I proved time and again how he is superior to Mace. Let it drop. Mace is good, I know. But I read Shatterpoint, and I watched him in the movies, and I've heard all there is to yaw about from the Episode III novel which takes a hell of a lot of liberty with the plotline, and I still say Malak beats him. Let it end.
Uh, Most consider Revan to be more powerful than Kun. Fishy and I, even Wikipedia says many think Revan is the most powerful Sith lord of all time. Besides, two games is a lot more than some *cough Ragnos, Hord, Nihilus, cough*.
And lastly, you haven't proved Malak is superior to Mace, but you have made valid points.
Have a nice day. 🙂
Oh and Glentract: The star Forge weakened and was destroyed without a strong leader (though why that never happened from the end of the infinite empire to KOTOR I don't know)
I think I have beat Palpatine in manipulation.
"I don't think Luke could contend with a fully trained Jedi Weaponsmaster and battle prodigy like Mace. His only hope would be to overwhelm Mace with the Force itself, if he could."
Janus, you posted that in the Mace Windu versus NJO Luke thread. Now don't tell me that you think Malak can beat NJO Luke.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
maybe there was no chosen one. Or maybe the sith interertation was the right one. In anycase, he did eventually kill Palpatine.
For all we know, the Chosen One could be some random Jedi who killed off the true Sith. And the Sit hlived on after Anakin killed Sidious.