Originally posted by diabloman
i keep on saying the same thing over and over cause u dont get it through your hard head that HT can absorb fire and control fire outside of himself. you think pyro is cooler just cause he can make some bird or what ever with his flame thrower that anyone can use. and wont do a damn thing if pyro shoots at him while hes on fire or not cause again HE CAN ABSORB FIRE HE CAN ABSORB FIRE HE CAN ABSORB FIRE. YOU DONT GET IT THROUGH YOUR HARD HEAD MAN
In the following post i went into ALL the abilities you brought up in HT's favour...
Originally posted by wannabe...and if you don't get THIS, it becomes obvious, that you either didn't read my post or your capacity for understanding is so diminished, that it's beyond my explanatory abilities to compensate for your deficiencies. Sorry!
1) YES, you are right diabloman, HT can control fire as well and more.BUT Pyro is better than HT at controlling fire, and i think so...
...because Pyro has shown far more examples of control than HT.
...because Reed himself said, that Johnny had less control than Franky Ray and she never expressed control on Pyro's level.
...because Fire Control is Pyro's only power, the only thing he's been training all his life, while HT has other powers as well he had to master.
...because HT was never able to manipulate flames in a way that they become almost solid and are able to carry, hold and punch superstrong characters like Hulk and Colossus (which has nothing to do with the fire's heat).2) YES, you are right diabloman, HT can also absorb fire.
BUT in order to do so (literally "taking the flames away" from Pyro) he would have to overcome Pyro's control over them in the first place, which he can not do because Pyro's control is superior to his.
A comparison to make my point even clearer:
Imagine Magneto and Polaris fighting each other and Eric throws a metal bar at Lorna.
Of course Polaris could try to use her own power of control over magnetism and metal to take the bar away from Magneto (like you propose HT could absorb the fire that is under Pyro's control), but she won't be able to do so, because she would have to overcome Magneto's control over the bar in the first place, which she can not do, because Eric's control is superior to hers.3) (before you mention it again) YES, HT is almost immune against heat.
BUT it would not be the heat of Pyro's flames that will pose a threat to Johnny, it will be the fact that these flames can become solid and superstrong and so are able to rip HT apart just like any other powerhouse could do.
"Johnny powers this fusion internally, so if he does not consume enough energy to generate new protective cells regularly, he runs the risk of literally burning himself up. He can also control flame outside of himself, though this has yet to be explained."
got new ammo. If human torch isn't near a source of nuclear fusion (have no idea what an example would b), pyro could just control his flames to make himself flameproof until human torch burns himself up.
Originally posted by Lethal_Risehow can he burnhimself up if he can absor fire. pyros skin is no different than a human. he can kill him in a sec. with HTs fire. his heat is just about hot as the sun. pyros flamethrower wouldnt hold that.
"Johnny powers this fusion internally, so if he does not consume enough energy to generate new protective cells regularly, he runs the risk of literally burning himself up. He can also control flame outside of himself, though this has yet to be explained."
got new ammo. If human torch isn't near a source of nuclear fusion (have no idea what an example would b), pyro could just control his flames to make himself flameproof until human torch burns himself up.
Originally posted by Lethal_Rise
"Johnny powers this fusion internally, so if he does not consume enough energy to generate new protective cells regularly, he runs the risk of literally burning himself up. He can also control flame outside of himself, though this has yet to be explained."
got new ammo. If human torch isn't near a source of nuclear fusion (have no idea what an example would b), pyro could just control his flames to make himself flameproof until human torch burns himself up.
Isn't that from Ultimate FF?
Originally posted by diablomanpyro's immune to the fire he controls, regardless of it's heat. he doesn't need his flamethrowers against HT, he could just take some of his fire.
how can he burnhimself up if he can absor fire. pyros skin is no different than a human. he can kill him in a sec. with HTs fire. his heat is just about hot as the sun. pyros flamethrower wouldnt hold that.
Originally posted by Lethal_RiseHT can turnoff his fire in a sec. before pyro gets a chance to take it. besides if pyro takes his fire thats not gonna do jack. HT can turn back int flame any time he wants.
pyro's immune to the fire he controls, regardless of it's heat. he doesn't need his flamethrowers against HT, he could just take some of his fire.
Originally posted by diabloman
who cares if HT can make some little house or birdie. how the hell is that gonna help him attack his enemies. HT can control fire outside of himself as well.
That birdie Pyro makes, has mass and could pick up heavy solid objects. If Pyro were to make a birdie, he could make it rip Torch's limbs off. You say HT can control fire outside himself? Personally ive never seens it and secondly, if he could, he cant control fire better than Pyro, so that option is nulled.
There is NO WAY in a fair fight between the two that Pyro would win....it's just absurd.
First off, it doesn't matter if Pyro can make fire so dense it has mass...it is still fire and it will still be absorbed into Human Torch....Human Torch doesn't have to see fire like Pyro does to control it all he has to do is sense it and he senses any fire in his vicinity. All Human Torch has to do is create a flame behind Pyro's head, then Pyro can't see it and therefore can't control it...soon he'll pass out from a heat stroke or HT could just burn his head off.
Second, Human Torch has the ability to supress flame JUST as much as Pyro does if not more. He's shown this ability several times...furthermore, Human Torch can control ambient heat energy while Pyro can only control FLAME...meanig that Human Torch could attack Pyro with attacks made up of heat energy without every actually creating a flame, giving Pyro no chance to control his attacks.
Third, Super Nova would incinerate Pyro in an instant and there would be no way for him to stop this attack. Super Nova is NOT based on flames...it is NOT a fire attack. It is an attack made up of heat energy...it doesn't make flames, it makes a plasma substance such as suns are made up of. Pyro can't supress that.
Fourth, Human Torch has MUCH more training as a fighter and superpowered being than Pyro. He's faced MUCH tougher foes and has done so for much more time. Every member of the Fantastic Four is a superb hand to hand fighter while Pyro is a punk who relies on his powers solely.
Fifth, there are things that Human Torch can do to win that Pyro couldn't...Human Torch could decrease the surrounding areas temperature to below freezing and then put out any flame Pyro attempted to ignite...Human Torch then heats his own body without flames making him immune to the temperature change while Pyro's body starts to slow down...Human Torch takes him out with a couple punches...Human Torch could make a flash of bright light, bright enough to blind Pyro. Pyro now can't control ANY fire as he cannot see...Human Torch takes him down with a fireball...Human Torch could heat the ground so hot that Pyro sinks into while HT soars above it using several small jet blasts from his feet which wouldn't give Pyro time to put them out...
Human Torch is NOT a fireprojector...he is essential a fusion reactor that creates superheated plasma that has the side effect of producing flames...even if Pyro could somehow wrestle Johnny's flame from him(and there is absolutly no comic basis that shows Pyro could do this, as I recall he wasn't able to do so with Firestar, and everyone in the Marvel universe recognizes HT as the master of flames) it doesn't mean that he could do anything to the force that Johnny's plasma creates...meaning he couldn't stop Johnny's flight by controlling the flame...
There is just no way Pyro is going to win...Marvel has NEVER put Human Torch and Pyro on the same power level. They have never even hinted that this is the case.
Originally posted by XStreme
There is NO WAY in a fair fight between the two that Pyro would win....it's just absurd.First off, it doesn't matter if Pyro can make fire so dense it has mass...it is still fire and it will still be absorbed into Human Torch....Human Torch doesn't have to see fire like Pyro does to control it all he has to do is sense it and he senses any fire in his vicinity. All Human Torch has to do is create a flame behind Pyro's head, then Pyro can't see it and therefore can't control it...soon he'll pass out from a heat stroke or HT could just burn his head off.
Second, Human Torch has the ability to supress flame JUST as much as Pyro does if not more. He's shown this ability several times...furthermore, Human Torch can control ambient heat energy while Pyro can only control FLAME...meanig that Human Torch could attack Pyro with attacks made up of heat energy without every actually creating a flame, giving Pyro no chance to control his attacks.
Third, Super Nova would incinerate Pyro in an instant and there would be no way for him to stop this attack. Super Nova is NOT based on flames...it is NOT a fire attack. It is an attack made up of heat energy...it doesn't make flames, it makes a plasma substance such as suns are made up of. Pyro can't supress that.
Fourth, Human Torch has MUCH more training as a fighter and superpowered being than Pyro. He's faced MUCH tougher foes and has done so for much more time. Every member of the Fantastic Four is a superb hand to hand fighter while Pyro is a punk who relies on his powers solely.
Fifth, there are things that Human Torch can do to win that Pyro couldn't...Human Torch could decrease the surrounding areas temperature to below freezing and then put out any flame Pyro attempted to ignite...Human Torch then heats his own body without flames making him immune to the temperature change while Pyro's body starts to slow down...Human Torch takes him out with a couple punches...Human Torch could make a flash of bright light, bright enough to blind Pyro. Pyro now can't control ANY fire as he cannot see...Human Torch takes him down with a fireball...Human Torch could heat the ground so hot that Pyro sinks into while HT soars above it using several small jet blasts from his feet which wouldn't give Pyro time to put them out...
Human Torch is NOT a fireprojector...he is essential a fusion reactor that creates superheated plasma that has the side effect of producing flames...even if Pyro could somehow wrestle Johnny's flame from him(and there is absolutly no comic basis that shows Pyro could do this, as I recall he wasn't able to do so with Firestar, and everyone in the Marvel universe recognizes HT as the master of flames) it doesn't mean that he could do anything to the force that Johnny's plasma creates...meaning he couldn't stop Johnny's flight by controlling the flame...
There is just no way Pyro is going to win...Marvel has NEVER put Human Torch and Pyro on the same power level. They have never even hinted that this is the case.
I don't have time to counter (or at least attempt to) all of this right now. So I'll just answer the last question.
Marvel has never put Shadowcat or Nightcrawler in the same power level as the Hulk, but do you doubt they can beat him? 😕