Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
We wouldn't be having this little discussion if you hadn't been making shit up from the start."They beat Galactus! Well-documented!"
Bro, you've gone full carver here. Never go full carver.
My bad. Sorry, Galactus was fought to a standstill with neither side being able to clearly beat the other.
Is that better for you?
Regardless, it still takes a helluva powerful character to accomplish that.
Originally posted by tkitnaor scare Genis Vell, no doubt Sentry had some great feats that mean he could really accomplish anything given the right writer.
My bad. Sorry, Galactus was fought to a standstill with neither side being able to clearly beat the other.Is that better for you?
Regardless, it still takes a helluva powerful character to accomplish that.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sure, but again - we don't know a tiny bit of context of that encounter.When it happened? Where it happened? Why it happened?
What we do know is that Parker loves to blow things out of proportion and miss all the fine details:
Granted the fine details were not given, but the feat itself appears to be as legit as can be. X-Man brought it up along with other adventures he and Sentry were in together and Sentry was shocked he remembered.
Regardless, its all good.
It's just hearsay, which is as far from being a legit feat as possible.
Sentry was confused as fuck and instead of embracing his friend, he left him to face Dark Avengers alone. Not exactly a good proof of anything, unless you want to argue how non-credible Sentry is, given his extremely poor mental health.
Originally posted by h1a8Possibly, I think the molecule man incident suggests so, remember mm is above Galactus and Phoenix at that point in time. If the writer decides he can do that, the bullpen obviously thinks anything is possible, Editorial go ahead and all that. Although Shooter's rules have fallen by the wayside at Marvel and DC in the last 20 years.
Sentry at his best would beat Phoenix.
I remember this thread. Memories! 😂
This was when Whirly was in the midst of his troll era so i ignored it. 😉
If this is a Phoenix host we're talking about then this is a battle. The average host wins 6/10, the most powerful win 9/10
If we're talking the Phoenix Force, then this thread is ridiculous. 10/10 PF wins.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I remember this thread. Memories! 😂This was when Whirly was in the midst of his troll era so i ignored it. 😉
If this is a Phoenix host we're talking about then this is a battle. The average host wins 6/10, the most powerful win 9/10
If we're talking the Phoenix Force, then this thread is ridiculous. 10/10 PF wins.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIs the Phoenix force = The Phoenix?
If you mean the Phoenix Force then of course, that cant be a serious question? Where has this severe underrating come from? 😱
This thread is about Phoenix (Jean Grey).
Even if the thread was about PF then there is no way it is beating Bob's most powerful form. Mm >>>>> PF. PF can't stop Bob from reforming, assuming it can even kill Bob to begin with.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm😂 love you too 🙂
I remember this thread. Memories! 😂This was when Whirly was in the midst of his troll era so i ignored it. 😉
If this is a Phoenix host we're talking about then this is a battle. The average host wins 6/10, the most powerful win 9/10
If we're talking the Phoenix Force, then this thread is ridiculous. 10/10 PF wins.
Originally posted by h1a8
Is the Phoenix force = The Phoenix?This thread is about Phoenix (Jean Grey).
"The Phoenix" is a term that has been used in continuity many a time to refer to both the Phoenix Force and a host. The opening post of this thread never specified what we were dealing with here which is why in making my contribution to this thread I discussed both scenarios.
Originally posted by h1a8
Even if the thread was about PF then there is no way it is beating Bob's most powerful form. Mm >>>>> PF. PF can't stop Bob from reforming, assuming it can even kill Bob to begin with.
What a baseless, absurd perspective. 😱
Please share the comic book scenes where this mythical full power Sentry has appeared and done something that conclusively puts him at the top tier of Marvels cosmic hierarchy? This is like full power Galactus or Superman Prime. Myths with zero on panel supporting feats, just head canon from impressionable fanboys. 😉
The Phoenix Force is life. Sentrys very existence along with all life and reality is dependant on the PF. It is the sum and substance of all life and as stated many times over across continuity from its conception up until its most recent appearances in Jason Aarons Avengers run it is the source of all reality. The power of a million exploding suns? Every star and planet in Marvel derives from the Phoenix. Pit him against a host by all means, but the PF itself in a battle scenario where its intention is to kill him? Massacre. It could end and resurrect him at will as he is nothing but an aspect of her.
Your lack of insight into what the Phoenix is and the implications of that, is causing you to underrate it severely. 🙁
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"The Phoenix" is a term that has been used in continuity many a time to refer to both the Phoenix Force and a host. The opening post of this thread never specified what we were dealing with here which is why in making my contribution to this thread I discussed both scenarios.What a baseless, absurd perspective. 😱
Please share the comic book scenes where this mythical full power Sentry has appeared and done something that conclusively puts him at the top tier of Marvels cosmic hierarchy? This is like full power Galactus or Superman Prime. Myths with zero on panel supporting feats, just head canon from impressionable fanboys. 😉
The Phoenix Force is life. Sentrys very existence along with all life and reality is dependant on the PF. It is the sum and substance of all life and as stated many times over across continuity from its conception up until its most recent appearances in Jason Aarons Avengers run it is the source of all reality. The power of a million exploding suns? Every star and planet in Marvel derives from the Phoenix. Pit him against a host by all means, but the PF itself in a battle scenario where its intention is to kill him? Massacre. It could end and resurrect him at will as he is nothing but an aspect of her.
Your lack of insight into what the Phoenix is and the implications of that, is causing you to underrate it severely. 🙁
Bob overpowered MM which is more powerful than the Phoenix. Showed the ability to comeback from complete disintegration, being erased from existence, etc.
The phoenix force isn't the phoenix. The phoenix is the host that has the power of the phoenix force.
We go by feats. We have alien ships hurting the phoenix force and causing it to flee. We have Thor hurting the phoenix force. We have no feats from the phoenix force showing that it is even capable of killing Bob at his most powerful, let alone the ability to keep him dead. When did the phoenix force (or a host) just render a combatant lifeless on a whim (without a battle)? Because comics contradict that ability.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
"The Phoenix" is a term that has been used in continuity many a time to refer to both the Phoenix Force and a host. The opening post of this thread never specified what we were dealing with here which is why in making my contribution to this thread I discussed both scenarios.What a baseless, absurd perspective. 😱
Please share the comic book scenes where this mythical full power Sentry has appeared and done something that conclusively puts him at the top tier of Marvels cosmic hierarchy? This is like full power Galactus or Superman Prime. Myths with zero on panel supporting feats, just head canon from impressionable fanboys. 😉
The Phoenix Force is life. Sentrys very existence along with all life and reality is dependant on the PF. It is the sum and substance of all life and as stated many times over across continuity from its conception up until its most recent appearances in Jason Aarons Avengers run it is the source of all reality. The power of a million exploding suns? Every star and planet in Marvel derives from the Phoenix. Pit him against a host by all means, but the PF itself in a battle scenario where its intention is to kill him? Massacre. It could end and resurrect him at will as he is nothing but an aspect of her.
Your lack of insight into what the Phoenix is and the implications of that, is causing you to underrate it severely. 🙁
What exactly has Phoenix done on panel that is so impressive? Not trying to argue, but i'm having a hard time coming up with feats. She absorbed a star once and that might be her best feat. Galactus and others have given Phoenix a hard time.
Originally posted by h1a8
Bob overpowered MM which is more powerful than the Phoenix. Showed the ability to comeback from complete disintegration, being erased from existence, etc.
Standard Molecule Man is nowhere near as powerful as the PF. Molecule Man was a match for a larval stage, not fully powered Beyonder back in the past.
The Beyonder states that the machinations of all the Beyonders are powered by the energies of the Phoenixes White Hot Room, a place of danger even for beings such as the Beyonders:
The fully evolved Beyonder admits that his power is miniscule compared to the full Phoenix Forces.
Originally posted by h1a8
The phoenix force isn't the phoenix. The phoenix is the host that has the power of the phoenix force.
Stop making assertions on matters you are not clued up on. Be humble.
Heres one panel describing the the Phoenix Force as both the Phoenix and the Phoenix Force demonstrating "Phoenix" and "Phoenix Force" are used interchangeably in referencing the cosmic entity:
The Phoenix Force calling itself Phoenix and its host Rachel calling the Force "The Phoenix"
The Phoenix Force referred to as "The Phoenix"
As i stated in my previous post, the cosmic entity by canon is called the Phoenix and the Phoenix Force. Its hosts are often called the Phoenix as well.
I have proven this conclusively. Your misunderstanding.
Originally posted by h1a8
We go by feats. We have alien ships hurting the phoenix force and causing it to flee. We have Thor hurting the phoenix force. We have no feats from the phoenix force showing that it is even capable of killing Bob at his most powerful, let alone the ability to keep him dead. When did the phoenix force (or a host) just render a combatant lifeless on a whim (without a battle)? Because comics contradict that ability.
No need to tell me what we go by on this forum. I predate you.
Alien ships and Thor hurting the Phoenix mean nothing when it is ultimately mutable and entirely indestructible.
It can be divided, absorbed, metabolized and still be entirely fine. Energy cant be destroyed, only transferred and the Phoenix Forces substance is the building blocks of reality.
Your problem is, youre not getting what it is. In Marvel, everything is Phoenix Force. Every form of matter and energy within the closed system of Marvels realities is made up of Phoenix Force.
It is the sum and substance of all life.
all reality derives from it
the energies of creation and Big Bang are one and the same as the Phoenix Force
Its constantly being devoured, used and abused and it wouldnt have it any other way as that is the nature of life that it sustains and perpetuates.
Furthermore, the firebird isnt the sum total of the Phoenix. It is just an avatar:
"The Phoenix avatar"
Rachel is said to be possessed by "this enigmatic avatar"
So the firebird itself isnt the full Phoenix. It is just a representation.
The Phoenix simultaneously makes up all reality, whilst its consciousness and core being resides in the White Hot Room. It manifests its consciousness within reality as the Firebird of which there can be many operating in reality at once.
Disrupting or shattering an avatar means not a thing.
Sentry is ultimately just a piece of Phoenix Force just like all of your Marvel faves. The Phoenix can freely give and take its essence giving and taking life at will.
Cyclops
Captain Marvel
If the Phoenix Force withdrew its essence from reality, there would be a void without the smallest potential for life.
The Phoenix Force isnt even reliant on life force manipulation. It can just write him out of the timeline or disintegrate him so not an atom of his being remains for him to regenerate from which he requires.
Sentry exists thanks to the Phoenix. There are levels. Pit him against the Hulk or Silver Surfer. Dont downgrade the Phoenix out of ignorance.
Originally posted by tkitna
What exactly has Phoenix done on panel that is so impressive? Not trying to argue, but i'm having a hard time coming up with feats. She absorbed a star once and that might be her best feat. Galactus and others have given Phoenix a hard time.
No wonder you dont rate her if thats the only kind of feat youre aware of 😱
A Phoenix host temporarily held back the power of the 1st Firmament
616s 1st Phoenix host Firehair then joined forces with Starbrand to rewrite the reality of the entire Marvel multiverse:
Even if that was collaborative a Phoenix host is by canon more powerful than all Earths gods and protective powers as stated by Gaea:
So Firehair did the lionshare of the work. So a colossal feat beyond just about any Marvel cosmic i can think of.
Jean Grey is the most powerful of the Phoenix hosts according to the PF so her power scales up beyond even that.
Jean Grey Phoenix has amputated a future reality off the multiversal tree with a thought:
Materialised the 616 universe in her palm atom by atom displaying total control of all the matter and energy of the universe of which the Abstracts, gods and heroes are just facets of:
Phoenix also re-energised the containment field that withheld the multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal:
Phoenix created a multiversal nexus across all reality by projecting and duplicating a lighthouse across every dimension:
Multiversal feat upon mutiversal feat.
Plus the Phoenix Force by canon is the power from which all reality derives from:
a power that dwarfs the likes of the Beyonders in its full form:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Standard Molecule Man is nowhere near as powerful as the PF. Molecule Man was a match for a larval stage, not fully powered Beyonder back in the past.The Beyonder states that the machinations of all the Beyonders are powered by the energies of the Phoenixes White Hot Room, a place of danger even for beings such as the Beyonders:
The fully evolved Beyonder admits that his power is miniscule compared to the full Phoenix Forces.
Stop making assertions on matters you are not clued up on. Be humble.
Heres one panel describing the the Phoenix Force as both the Phoenix and the Phoenix Force demonstrating "Phoenix" and "Phoenix Force" are used interchangeably in referencing the cosmic entity:
The Phoenix Force calling itself Phoenix and its host Rachel calling the Force "The Phoenix"
The Phoenix Force referred to as "The Phoenix"
As i stated in my previous post, the cosmic entity by canon is called the Phoenix and the Phoenix Force. Its hosts are often called the Phoenix as well.
I have proven this conclusively. Your misunderstanding.
No need to tell me what we go by on this forum. I predate you.
Alien ships and Thor hurting the Phoenix mean nothing when it is ultimately mutable and entirely indestructible.
It can be divided, absorbed, metabolized and still be entirely fine. Energy cant be destroyed, only transferred and the Phoenix Forces substance is the building blocks of reality.
Your problem is, youre not getting what it is. In Marvel, everything is Phoenix Force. Every form of matter and energy within the closed system of Marvels realities is made up of Phoenix Force.
It is the [B]sum
and substance of all life.all reality derives from it
the energies of creation and Big Bang are one and the same as the Phoenix Force
Its constantly being devoured, used and abused and it wouldnt have it any other way as that is the nature of life that it sustains and perpetuates.
Furthermore, the firebird isnt the sum total of the Phoenix. It is just an avatar:
"The Phoenix avatar"
Rachel is said to be possessed by "this enigmatic avatar"
So the firebird itself isnt the full Phoenix. It is just a representation.
The Phoenix simultaneously makes up all reality, whilst its consciousness and core being resides in the White Hot Room. It manifests its consciousness within reality as the Firebird of which there can be many operating in reality at once.
Disrupting or shattering an avatar means not a thing.
Sentry is ultimately just a piece of Phoenix Force just like all of your Marvel faves. The Phoenix can freely give and take its essence giving and taking life at will.
Cyclops
Captain Marvel
If the Phoenix Force withdrew its essence from reality, there would be a void without the smallest potential for life.
The Phoenix Force isnt even reliant on life force manipulation. It can just write him out of the timeline or disintegrate him so not an atom of his being remains for him to regenerate from which he requires.
Sentry exists thanks to the Phoenix. There are levels. Pit him against the Hulk or Silver Surfer. Dont downgrade the Phoenix out of ignorance. [/B]