Phoenix v Sentry

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

The breadth of Owen's powers have always been fully dependent on his mental stability. ie. when he is fully stable, the guy is a universal/multiversal powerhouse... But when he's unstable, the guy can become c-list fodder.

This is important, because when Owen encountered Sentry in Dark Avengers, he was in one of his most mentally unstable states that we have ever seen. He was herald-level... Maybe low Skyfather level at best, if we feel like giving him the heavy benefit of the doubt.

Either way, that level of power would be inconsequential when compared to the PF... Especially as it has been portrayed by Ewing recently.

Lifebringer Galactus was shitting his pants in the presence of unstable Owen.

^ I wouldn't call that version of Owen unstable at all... Certainly not in the same way that he was portrayed in Dark Avengers.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No wonder you dont rate her if thats the only kind of feat youre aware of 😱

A Phoenix host temporarily held back the power of the 1st Firmament

https://imgur.com/9kPAiLU

https://imgur.com/EoBeDCE

https://imgur.com/tuViP8M

https://imgur.com/C5jzdUF

616s 1st Phoenix host Firehair then joined forces with Starbrand to rewrite the reality of the entire Marvel multiverse:

https://imgur.com/5PgnVSt

https://imgur.com/UN725FX

https://imgur.com/uSy1N2l

Even if that was collaborative a Phoenix host is by canon more powerful than all Earths gods and protective powers as stated by Gaea:

https://imgur.com/iLi9mJW

So Firehair did the lionshare of the work. So a colossal feat beyond just about any Marvel cosmic i can think of.

Jean Grey is the most powerful of the Phoenix hosts according to the PF so her power scales up beyond even that.

https://imgur.com/9ObpWJm

Jean Grey Phoenix has amputated a future reality off the multiversal tree with a thought:

https://imgur.com/FLicZ7h

Materialised the 616 universe in her palm atom by atom displaying total control of all the matter and energy of the universe of which the Abstracts, gods and heroes are just facets of:

https://imgur.com/QUItnRZ

Phoenix also re-energised the containment field that withheld the multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal:

https://imgur.com/2Y4GUvX

Phoenix created a multiversal nexus across all reality by projecting and duplicating a lighthouse across every dimension:

https://imgur.com/JNpRWMX

Multiversal feat upon mutiversal feat.

Plus the Phoenix Force by canon is the power from which all reality derives from:

https://imgur.com/61vYLER

https://imgur.com/tfkFlJJ

https://imgur.com/T8qjZQG

a power that dwarfs the likes of the Beyonders in its full form:

https://imgur.com/bRJPeiB

Originally posted by abhilegend
*Phoenix is omnipotent, Phoenix is more powerful than Beyonder*

*Phoenix gets stalemated by a low end Earth god*

Phoenix as always is all hype and nothing else.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I wouldn't call that version of Owen unstable at all... Certainly not in the same way that he was portrayed in Dark Avengers.

Not in the same way, sure.

But still remained the insane little creep as usual, tbh. Galactus agrees with me 😛

Originally posted by h1a8
His top feat is coming back after being erased from existence. That is my 4th time stating that. You keep ignoring it.

I countered this fallacy multiple times on page 3. Instead of addressing my counter youre making out as if ive ignored your nonsense:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Erased from existence is being written out of existence through reality or chronal manipulation so that said being never existed in reality. Thats not what happened to Sentry.

https://imgur.com/4MOmxJP

https://imgur.com/qiJwLvn

He got blown up 😬

Erased from existence? 😕

Get a grip 😆

As stated by himself, he remains alive if an atom of himself exists and he can manipulate matter to regenerate. However the output of a star is beyond the limits of his durability.

https://imgur.com/7fAGy6o

He had to be saved.

If you are unable to counter what ive said, then maybe its time to accept i'm right 🙂

Originally posted by h1a8
I know MM was nerfed. That's why I gave a feat for him (that version) to prove his power level. He casually disintegrated Sentry. That's one hell of a feat.

Does this sound like you knew he was nerfed?

Originally posted by h1a8
Bob overpowered MM which is more powerful than the Phoenix.

Bullshit

You were ignorant of that point and backtracked after I highlighted it and Galan came in and corroborated what I said. Have some integrity.

Him disintegrating Sentry is not one hell of a feat when Sentry has stated himself that the power of the Sun is enough to disintegrate him and overcome the limits of his regeneration ability:

https://imgur.com/7fAGy6o

If his atom of matter was not retrieved from the Sun by the Apocalypse Twins then he would've been trapped by his own admission.

The entire universes stars are made up of Phoenix Force. It took just one of them to make Sentry a non-factor. 😬

Originally posted by h1a8
Who has Phoenix disintegrated? We go by feats, not no limit fallacies. Because from all her fights she has yet to do the things to Sentry you said she can.

Do you even comprehend what a no limit fallacy is? Lol. No demonstration of a utilisation of that anywhere in my posts.

At the end of the day, if someone can warp reality on a multiversal scale, manipulate time, generate unlimited amounts of any energy type, telekinetically amputate entire realities from the multiverse and telekinetically control the entirety of the universes energy and matter in the palm of her hand, it is absurd to argue that they are not capable of utilizing said abilities in battle.

To disintegrate is to break down into smaller component parts.

Jean as Phoenix by canon possesses "telekinetic godhood"

https://imgur.com/uAnI3Bo

https://imgur.com/k1hWCWm

https://imgur.com/MduUmvv

total telekinetic control of matter and you would argue she cant disintegrate Sentry with that power level when he has been blown to bits by Morgan Le Fay and a nerfed Molecule Man operating at herald level?

https://imgur.com/4MOmxJP

https://imgur.com/qiJwLvn

You would argue that when as stated by Sentry himself his power to regenerate can be overcome by a single stars output?

TF outta here 😆

Know when you are beaten.

Originally posted by h1a8
Sentry is significantly faster than her in battle (when fighting at his best).
He can potentially act before she does.

Faster than Jean Grey yes. Not faster than Jean Grey Phoenix. At least not according to Marvel:

https://imgur.com/Sanx800

https://imgur.com/MduUmvv

Jean as Phoenix is by canon stated to be able to generate any energy, any power. The Phoenix Force is the substance of all that is. All powers are ultimately derivative from and facilitated by the Force.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Sentry can disintegrate her. What's her defense against that?
2. Sentry can resist being disintegrated. He resisted being disintegrated by nerfed MM (who had the power to disintegrate Sentry at normal levels earlier). Even if Sentry is damaged then he would simply reform. He even came back from nonexistence. Nothing is topping that.
3. Looking at all her fights, she never disintegrated anyone on the level of high Herald or above. Phoenix host has been killed multiple times. Let's go by her battles. What has she done in battle that
A. Shows she can put someone down that can come back from nonexistence
B. Prevent being disintegrated by a power multiple times more powerful than able to disintegrate Sentry at normal levels.

Everything you say contradicts ALL of her battles. None of her battles corroborate the things relevant to permanently beating Sentry (at his best)

1 and 2) Sentrys molecular manipulation output is herald level at best from whats been demonstrated on panel. He was able to be disintegrated by a severely nerfed Molecule Man. He was later able to regenerate himself but it has been established the energy output of a single star is beyond the capacity of Sentrys molecular manipulation to overcome. Great capacity if we're talking Marvel Earth, but in terms of the wider universe thats weak sauce. Sentry doesnt have the energy output to overcome or resist Jean Grey Phoenix who has demonstrated molecular manipulation on an exponentially greater scale.

3)Shes a hero. Believe it or not theyre not in the business of disintegrating their foes. So redundant line of argument. Comparative battle prowess is not decided by battle feats alone, but also by feats accomplished through application of a characters abilities in other scenarios. Its illogical and absurd to assert otherwise. The power to reshape the universe doesnt suddenly become inoperative in a battle situation. This is a hypothetical forum fight (free of the influence of marketing and profit related agendas which can affect how characters are written in comics) We look at a characters demonstrated abilities and pit them against each other. PIS and CIS are non factors here and thus will not prop up your featherweight argument.

A - stop referring to Sentry getting erased from existence He just got blown up 😂
B - This was written terribly and i dont know what on earth youre saying

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Lifebringer Galactus was shitting his pants in the presence of unstable Owen.

To be fair that was an Owen that was still amped by the energies of The Beyonder race.

That meeting between Galactus and MM happened in Ultimates issue 6 released in April 2016.

Over 2 years after that in Fantastic Four (Vol. 6) #2
(September, 2018) Molecule Man was using the remnants of that power to finish rebuilding the multiverse (following Secret Wars) with Franklin Richards.

So Galactus feared an amped Molecule Man. Not standard. 😉

Originally posted by Galan007
^ I wouldn't call that version of Owen unstable at all... Certainly not in the same way that he was portrayed in Dark Avengers.

Why wasn't he unstable? The guy was insane.

Originally posted by carver9
Why wasn't he unstable? The guy was insane.

Galan was probably trying to say his favorite boy-toy wasn't acting like an insecure pussy anymore. He stopped creating imaginary friends to play with, too. Acted confident and was able to assert his dominance over Galactus.

He still clearly was a wacko though, therefore unstable.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I countered this fallacy multiple times on page 3. Instead of addressing my counter youre making out as if ive ignored your nonsense:

If you are unable to counter what ive said, then maybe its time to accept i'm right 🙂

Does this sound like you knew he was nerfed?

Bullshit

You were ignorant of that point and backtracked after I highlighted it and Galan came in and corroborated what I said. Have some integrity.

Him disintegrating Sentry is not one hell of a feat when Sentry has stated himself that the power of the Sun is enough to disintegrate him and overcome the limits of his regeneration ability:

https://imgur.com/7fAGy6o

If his atom of matter was not retrieved from the Sun by the Apocalypse Twins then he would've been trapped by his own admission.

The entire universes stars are made up of Phoenix Force. It took just one of them to make Sentry a non-factor. 😬

Do you even comprehend what a no limit fallacy is? Lol. No demonstration of a utilisation of that anywhere in my posts.

At the end of the day, if someone can warp reality on a multiversal scale, manipulate time, generate unlimited amounts of any energy type, telekinetically amputate entire realities from the multiverse and telekinetically control the entirety of the universes energy and matter in the palm of her hand, it is absurd to argue that they are not capable of utilizing said abilities in battle.

To disintegrate is to break down into smaller component parts.

Jean as Phoenix by canon possesses "telekinetic godhood"

https://imgur.com/uAnI3Bo

https://imgur.com/k1hWCWm

https://imgur.com/MduUmvv

total telekinetic control of matter and you would argue she cant disintegrate Sentry with that power level when he has been blown to bits by Morgan Le Fay and a nerfed Molecule Man operating at herald level?

https://imgur.com/4MOmxJP

https://imgur.com/qiJwLvn

You would argue that when as stated by Sentry himself his power to regenerate can be overcome by a single stars output?

TF outta here 😆

Know when you are beaten.

Faster than Jean Grey yes. Not faster than Jean Grey Phoenix. At least not according to Marvel:

https://imgur.com/Sanx800

https://imgur.com/MduUmvv

Jean as Phoenix is by canon stated to be able to generate any energy, any power. The Phoenix Force is the substance of all that is. All powers are ultimately derivative from and facilitated by the Force.

1 and 2) Sentrys molecular manipulation output is herald level at best from whats been demonstrated on panel. He was able to be disintegrated by a severely nerfed Molecule Man. He was later able to regenerate himself but it has been established the energy output of a single star is beyond the capacity of Sentrys molecular manipulation to overcome. Great capacity if we're talking Marvel Earth, but in terms of the wider universe thats weak sauce. Sentry doesnt have the energy output to overcome or resist Jean Grey Phoenix who has demonstrated molecular manipulation on an exponentially greater scale.

3)Shes a hero. Believe it or not theyre not in the business of disintegrating their foes. So redundant line of argument. Comparative battle prowess is not decided by battle feats alone, but also by feats accomplished through application of a characters abilities in other scenarios. Its illogical and absurd to assert otherwise. The power to reshape the universe doesnt suddenly become inoperative in a battle situation. This is a hypothetical forum fight (free of the influence of marketing and profit related agendas which can affect how characters are written in comics) We look at a characters demonstrated abilities and pit them against each other. PIS and CIS are non factors here and thus will not prop up your featherweight argument.

A - stop referring to Sentry getting erased from existence He just got blown up 😂
B - This was written terribly and i dont know what on earth youre saying

1. Lol no. So you are a scammer? The comic shows Sentry being erased from existence (not being blown up). Your scans (being blown up) are not from the same comic. And MM wasn't even there when Sentry got erased. The actual comic has Sentry disappearing in a bright flash. Doesn't matter as it was explained in the series that Morgan LeFay erased Sentry from the Timeline as if he never existed. Who are you trying to trick with this deception?

2. In comics we always have inconsistencies. For example, Phoenix has some extremely laughable low showings. You shouldn't cherry pick a character's low showings and pit them against another character's high showings. This is a form of trolling.
I can make Thing able to beat Superman under such tactics.
Anyway, MM didn't use heat and pressure (over A LONG PERIOD OF TIME)
, he used force to separate Sentry's atoms. Sentry can survive many many blows from WWH (which makes him tougher than Hercules and Thor). So to be able to atomized someone (casually) that durable is a great feat.

3. You have to show what Phoenix can do in battle to beat Sentry. Explain how she would win (use a feat she did against someone to prove your case). In Character plays a role here too. Like I said. Sentry came back from total disintegration and also being erased (never existed) . All that other stuff you are spouting is not proof to anything.

4. We use comic feats to prove capability, not handbooks. Sentry is significantly faster than her in battle speed By FEATS (perceptions, reactions, acceleration, etc). He would be the first to act.

5. If nerfed character has feats to prove a case then the fact that he's nerfed is irrelevant.

6. You have to prove (by feats) that she and will (prove propensity) can disintegrate someone as durable as Sentry. You have to prove (by feats) that she can and will (prove propensity) erase him. You have to prove (by feats) she can keep him erased.
You have to prove that Sentry can't disintegrate her (because he acts first).

7. The writer had 0 intention of MM being amped when facing Galactus. You are making stuff up.

Originally posted by Galan007
This is important, because when Owen encountered Sentry in Dark Avengers, he was in one of his most mentally unstable states that we have ever seen. He was herald-level... Maybe Skyfather-level, if we feel like giving him the heavy benefit of the doubt.

You have to be out of your mind to believe even for a single second that a high herald can do the Sentry what Molecule Man did in Dark Avengers.
No matter how much you want to lowball Molecule Man from that arc, his lowest power level at that point was still magnitudes of levels above that of a high herald. As is the Sentry.

And even from the editors and writers have always placed Sentry on so much higher tiers than certain readers give him credit for. For example in King of Black, when Knull invades with three venomized celestials. The Avengers call in the Sentry and know that all will be good now that their big gun is here. Sentry goes on to kill one of the Celestials, attacks Knull and gets worfed into character limbo. So from a writers and editors perspective in lore-universe Sentry would have been able to deal with 3 Celestials in the eyes of the Avengers. Knull at that point was an unknown threat.

I've always argued that Sentry should be ranked below Skyfathers, but that he is such a wild dog of a character that him killing Skyfathers and Abstracts would absolutely never surprise me. Like when you have a base Gladiator killing a Skyfather or an Abstract, you would ask yourself if that's really correct and who messed that up over at Marvel. When Sentry does it, you shrug with your shoulders and move on, because it's the Sentry and the Sentry occasionally does Sentry stuff.

what kind of resistence feats to molecular transmutation did sentry even have at the time though? i remember him reconstructing after morgaine "killed" him, but that was a magic based attack.

only asking because that was the same mm who had some kind of trouble transmuting daken because of his healing factor

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
what kind of resistence feats to molecular transmutation did sentry even have at the time though? i remember him reconstructing after morgaine "killed" him, but that was a magic based attack.

only asking because that was the same mm who had some kind of trouble transmuting daken because of his healing factor

Originally posted by h1a8
He resisted MM's 2nd attempt to atomize him. Which is one hell of a feat considering that MM had the power to casually atomize someone of Sentry's durability. Since it was casual, then it stands to reason that MM could have atomized someone several times more durable than Sentry. Sentry overpowered that force.

but i asked what kind of resistence feats to molecular transmutation that sentry had before the mm incidents, because if he had none then i dont see why we should think mm was much above the herald tier there? especially when the same mm had some degree of trouble transmuting daken because of his healing factor- and daken is just what, like meta tier?

Originally posted by Enzeru
You have to be out of your mind to believe even for a single second that a high herald can do the Sentry what Molecule Man did in Dark Avengers.
No matter how much you want to lowball Molecule Man from that arc, his lowest power level at that point was still magnitudes of levels above that of a high herald. As is the Sentry.

And even from the editors and writers have always placed Sentry on so much higher tiers than certain readers give him credit for. For example in King of Black, when Knull invades with three venomized celestials. The Avengers call in the Sentry and know that all will be good now that their big gun is here. Sentry goes on to kill one of the Celestials, attacks Knull and gets worfed into character limbo. So from a writers and editors perspective in lore-universe Sentry would have been able to deal with 3 Celestials in the eyes of the Avengers. Knull at that point was an unknown threat.

I've always argued that Sentry should be ranked below Skyfathers, but that he is such a wild dog of a character that him killing Skyfathers and Abstracts would absolutely never surprise me. Like when you have a base Gladiator killing a Skyfather or an Abstract, you would ask yourself if that's really correct and who messed that up over at Marvel. When Sentry does it, you shrug with your shoulders and move on, because it's the Sentry and the Sentry occasionally does Sentry stuff.

Sentry got ripped in half by the same Knull. Skyfather? Lol, LMAO even.

I like how the same writer can hype sentry by getting him to kill celestials and then worf him. Classic sentry fan moment lol

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Lol no. So you are a scammer? The comic shows Sentry being erased from existence (not being blown up). Your scans (being blown up) are not from the same comic. And MM wasn't even there when Sentry got erased. The actual comic has Sentry disappearing in a bright flash. Doesn't matter as it was explained in the series that Morgan LeFay erased Sentry from the Timeline as if he never existed. Who are you trying to trick with this deception?

Im a scammer? Bro, stop talking fart. Youre clearly asserting this madness from memory and yet having the audacity to not only state that im wrong, but that im somehow lying?

It was NEVER stated in Dark Avengers that Morgan Le Fay erased Sentry from the timeline. STOP arrogantly debating events from memory. The comic is 14yrs old. Go back and read the relevant scenes so as to not look the fool:

https://imgur.com/DE0shZP

Sentry is depicted buckling over in pain, before the subsequent panel shows energy building up inside him, followed by a big explosion that has the other characters reeling from the force.

His ass got blown up blowup

😆

Please show us where in the Dark Avengers title it states he got written out of the timeline? Please show us all the scan?

If you get written out of existence it doesnt happen with an explosion and on top of that other characters will not remember you ever existed unless said other characters have or are granted a special ability that renders them resistant to the effects of chronal/reality manipulation.

THIS is getting written out of existence:

https://imgur.com/hDMQ3VW

https://imgur.com/qqxGcDK

Either way, the comic itself referred to readers what actually happened to Sentry and it conclusively said his ass got brutally killed by Morgan Le Fay:

https://imgur.com/RFA6Icl

This point of the debate has concluded. I have proven conclusively you were wrong in trying to amp up and add some refinement to what was simply dismemberment. discorporation. disintegration.

Sentry has the ability to regenerate under certain conditions, as long as an atom of his body remains behind and said atom is not hampered (such as when Thor dumped his body in the sun preventing said atom from developing further)

https://imgur.com/7fAGy6o

Sentry has previously said he doesnt even know how he regenerates exactly:

https://imgur.com/VIX8oRW

https://imgur.com/ayOwczq

https://imgur.com/gd9lbOS

When Knull ripped him into chunks however, Sentry's body did not regenerate which highlights how this regeneration isnt a given and CANNOT be presented as such:

https://imgur.com/fBmL43M

https://imgur.com/pYEYyeU

https://imgur.com/IcJrw7i

These scans highlight that Sentry's regeneration is not automatic, it is not unconditional and it is not guaranteed. There are clearly limits to it and he cannot do it at will. Here Sentry laments not being able to help his friends even though he wants to, thus highlighting that passing on to the afterlife is not his choice and that he couldnt regenerate even though he clearly wants to.

So to sum all of that up, if the Sentry doesnt know how he regenerates, his regeneration isnt a given and has limits then you cannot present it as a guaranteed outcome upon the destruction of his body. That is now conclusive

Revaluate your argument. This particular line of thinking is a dead-end.

Originally posted by h1a8
2. In comics we always have inconsistencies. For example, Phoenix has some extremely laughable low showings. You shouldn't cherry pick a character's low showings and pit them against another character's high showings. This is a form of trolling. I can make Thing able to beat Superman under such tactics.

Have you even read the forums rules or are you a go with the flow trial and error kinda guy? Well right now youre giving nothing but error so that answers my question.

Originally posted by h1a8
Anyway, MM didn't use heat and pressure (over A LONG PERIOD OF TIME)
, he used force to separate Sentry's atoms. Sentry can survive many many blows from WWH (which makes him tougher than Hercules and Thor). So to be able to atomized someone (casually) that durable is a great feat.

Lets look at the forums rulings on Sentry:

There have been arguments about Sentry, Void, Siege and Molecule Man. This has been an on again, off again discussion among mods and a few posters.

We think the best way to handle the disagreement is as follows:

Siege Sentry/Void should be a self contained character within the arc for thread purposes. And not applied to anything before Siege.

Sentry and Void feats are not interchangeable, at all.

Siege feats by Sentry and Void should not be applied to anything preceding the arc.

The Molecule Man vs Sentry/Void fight shouldn't be considered a typical or average showing since the power displayed happened only once and therefore isn't verifiable. Also, Owen's erratic past regarding his own mental state should be considered.

It's apparent that Sentry/Void was evolving during Siege by the feats and dialogue. It's also shown that Sentry was "voiding" out even when he still looked like regular Sentry. Given the ambiguity regarding Sentry/Void, we think it's for the best that the character be separated by the Siege arc.

So, to avoid excess flaming and bashing, we would like threads to show either the Siege Sentry/Void or regular Sentry/Void to avoid any problems.

Wanna talk about rules eh? Your only feat of note is ruled out LOL

Originally posted by h1a8
3. You have to show what Phoenix can do in battle to beat Sentry. Explain how she would win (use a feat she did against someone to prove your case). In Character plays a role here too. Like I said. Sentry came back from total disintegration and also being erased (never existed) . All that other stuff you are spouting is not proof to anything.

There is no forum rule that exists that states that in a versus debate you're only allowed to mention powers that a character has used in a battle scenario.

That is fabrication. You are concocting that nonsense to bias the debate in your favour because you know very well youre beat here under normal forum rules.

Lets look at some more of those rules shall we?

Full Capacity

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

You are allowed to reference any abilities characters have demonstrated, at the full capacity that characters have demonstrated they inherently have (so minus temporary, external boosts for example). Said demonstration within the comics does not have to have taken place within a battle scenario. That is ABSURD. 😆

If you cannot make any head way in a debate without moving the goalposts and setting parameters (contrary to forum rules) that bias a debates outcome in your favour then you are an incompetent debater.

Originally posted by h1a8
4. We use comic feats to prove capability, not handbooks. Sentry is significantly faster than her in battle speed By FEATS (perceptions, reactions, acceleration, etc). He would be the first to act.

Dont give me "we" when you have demonstrated utter ignorance of what is and is not permitted by forum rules. Comic book feats do take precedence, but handbooks still have a place in presenting canon and cannot be overruled unless shown to be contrary to a conclusive and unambiguous incident or happenstance within a comic.

The Phoenix amplifies its hosts abilities to cosmic proportions. It is the source of all the universes energy. No power or ability is beyond its ability to bestow upon its hosts.

Speed? Meh

Jean Phoenix leaving Earth and blazing past Jupiter in minutes

https://imgur.com/AJyILum

https://imgur.com/v92cQvp

https://imgur.com/jbmGBIS

https://imgur.com/oHPFzGH

The distance from Earth to Jupiter on average is 444, million miles.

Using the comic panels reference in the Moira scene of minutes later, lets say the journey took her 5 mins as a conservative estimate, thats 5 billion 328 millions miles per hour. The speed of light is 671 million miles per hr. So nearly 8 times the speed of light or 7.94 times it to be exact.

Jean Phoenix again leaving Earth and within mins reaching a planet outside the solar system. So quite a bit faster even:

https://imgur.com/fYDTHvC

https://imgur.com/fChCsmP

https://imgur.com/VDqRBcp

Heres Thane Phoenix toying with and casually catching up with a spaceship accelerating to the speed of light:

https://imgur.com/fO6NHl6

https://imgur.com/DSi8wcm

Its ridiculous that you would call into question the ability of the source of all life and the facilitator of all powers to bestow abilities beyond a sub skyfather character.

Originally posted by h1a8
5. If nerfed character has feats to prove a case then the fact that he's nerfed is irrelevant.

He doesnt though. Him blowing up Sentry isnt a feat of note when Morgan Le Fay did it a few issues before and how its been demonstrated that the output of the sun is enough to end him and stop him regenerating.

Originally posted by h1a8
6. You have to prove (by feats) that she and will (prove propensity) can disintegrate someone as durable as Sentry. You have to prove (by feats) that she can and will (prove propensity) erase him. You have to prove (by feats) she can keep him erased.
You have to prove that Sentry can't disintegrate her (because he acts first).

You keep talking about his durability when its established that a nerfed MM, Morgan Le Fay (who is no great cosmic power) and the energies of a star are sufficient to exceed the limits of his durability.

Ive proven already that Sentry was not written out of existence. You relied on your unreliable memory for that tale and were absolutely wrong on all accounts lol.

He got recovered from being brutally blown up by Morgan Le Fay and yet as i also proved his regeneration is not a given. Thats canon. It happens under unknown circumstances and he doesnt even know how it happens, its not something he knows how to control, so you cant reference it as an automatic occurence or a standard ability at all going by forum rules. Sorry Mr.

Jean Grey Phoenix can fly and manoeuvre at many, many times the speed of light by canon. Why i bothered to prove that i dont know, but regardless i validated your nonsense.

As for her having the propensity, well this is what annoys me. You are out here all dismissive and full of denials regarding a character you clearly know next to nothing of. The bias ad arrogance is astounding.

Come with better energy. If you dont know about a character be humble and admit that, ask questions and learn.

Jean Grey is known for being a hothead, who can be ruthless in confrontations and has no issue making hard decisions if lives depend on it. With that in mind, incinerating Sentry, or disabling him in some manner to render him a non-threat is well within her character:

Savagely attacking Emma Frost in a psi battle:

https://imgur.com/N15jA0D

Brutalizing Sabretooth for threatening lives:

https://imgur.com/OHIsGsW

https://imgur.com/bqbvi8A

https://imgur.com/KdJNgMz

https://imgur.com/Z9I9inK

Vindictively roughing up Emma Frost for her psychic affair with Cyclops and threatening her with her own twist on a penance stare:

https://imgur.com/4ZpPOSX

https://imgur.com/4uTN8Mo

https://imgur.com/nAeLt7b

https://imgur.com/r6BGSqv

https://imgur.com/P4dArb5

Disintegrating inhabitants of an island that had been morphed into plant hybrids and threatened lives:

https://imgur.com/gA8JwFo

https://imgur.com/Nla16sN

Originally posted by h1a8
7. The writer had 0 intention of MM being amped when facing Galactus. You are making stuff up.

You cant say that. Molecule Man by canon was still amped up by the Beyonder races energies at that time within continuity. It is a fact that he was not operating at standard power levels.

Why youve chosen to refer to my tangential conversation with another forum poster when it has nothing whatsoever to do with the debate im eating you up on i really dont know.

Anyways thatll be all folks.

Come harder.👆

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
mm atomized sentry 3 different times. sentry just got better at reassembling himself after each time.

but i asked what kind of resistence feats to molecular transmutation that sentry had before the mm incidents, because if he had none then i dont see why we should think mm was much above the herald tier there? especially when the same mm had some degree of trouble transmuting daken because of his healing factor- and daken is just what, like meta tier?

🤘

Originally posted by h1a8
He resisted MM's 2nd attempt to atomize him. Which is one hell of a feat considering that MM had the power to casually atomize someone of Sentry's durability. Since it was casual, then it stands to reason that MM could have atomized someone several times more durable than Sentry. Sentry overpowered that force.

Sentrys durability whilst impressive by Earth standards, isnt anything to write home about on the cosmic stage.

Morgan Le Fay blew him up. You tried to finesse people by saying she wrote him out of existence thereby making his regeneration seem more impressive.

NO. As i proved he simply got blown up.

Furthermore given his admittance to not knowing how he regenerates and his inability to regenerate from getting ripped apart by Knull, that means his regeneration ability isnt standard, it happens under certain unknown conditions and is therefore something you cannot reference as one of his standard abilities according to forum rules.

WEEP! 😆

Big mistake touting rules this rules that and making me go back and refresh my memory. 😱 😆

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im a scammer? Bro, stop talking fart. Youre clearly asserting this madness from memory and yet having the audacity to not only state that im wrong, but that im somehow lying?

It was [B]NEVER stated in Dark Avengers that Morgan Le Fay erased Sentry from the timeline. STOP arrogantly debating events from memory. The comic is 14yrs old. Go back and read the relevant scenes so as to not look the fool:

https://imgur.com/DE0shZP

Sentry is depicted buckling over in pain, before the subsequent panel shows energy building up inside him, followed by a big explosion that has the other characters reeling from the force.

His ass got blown up blowup

😆

Please show us where in the Dark Avengers title it states he got written out of the timeline? Please show us all the scan?

If you get written out of existence it doesnt happen with an explosion and on top of that other characters will not remember you ever existed unless said other characters have or are granted a special ability that renders them resistant to the effects of chronal/reality manipulation.

THIS is getting written out of existence:

https://imgur.com/hDMQ3VW

https://imgur.com/qqxGcDK

Either way, the comic itself referred to readers what actually happened to Sentry and it conclusively said his ass got brutally killed by Morgan Le Fay:

https://imgur.com/RFA6Icl

This point of the debate has concluded. I have proven conclusively you were wrong in trying to amp up and add some refinement to what was simply dismemberment. discorporation. disintegration.

Sentry has the ability to regenerate under certain conditions, as long as an atom of his body remains behind and said atom is not hampered (such as when Thor dumped his body in the sun preventing said atom from developing further)

https://imgur.com/7fAGy6o

Sentry has previously said he doesnt even know how he regenerates exactly:

https://imgur.com/VIX8oRW

https://imgur.com/ayOwczq

https://imgur.com/gd9lbOS

When Knull ripped him into chunks however, Sentry's body did not regenerate which highlights how this regeneration isnt a given and CANNOT be presented as such:

https://imgur.com/fBmL43M

https://imgur.com/pYEYyeU

https://imgur.com/IcJrw7i

These scans highlight that Sentry's regeneration is not automatic, it is not unconditional and it is not guaranteed. There are clearly limits to it and he cannot do it at will. Here Sentry laments not being able to help his friends even though he wants to, thus highlighting that passing on to the afterlife is not his choice and that he couldnt regenerate even though he clearly wants to.

So to sum all of that up, if the Sentry doesnt know how he regenerates, his regeneration isnt a given and has limits then you cannot present it as a guaranteed outcome upon the destruction of his body. That is now conclusive

Revaluate your argument. This particular line of thinking is a dead-end.

Have you even read the forums rules or are you a go with the flow trial and error kinda guy? Well right now youre giving nothing but error so that answers my question.

Lets look at the forums rulings on Sentry:

Wanna talk about rules eh? Your only feat of note is ruled out LOL

There is no forum rule that exists that states that in a versus debate you're only allowed to mention powers that a character has used in a battle scenario.

That is fabrication. You are concocting that nonsense to bias the debate in your favour because you know very well youre beat here under normal forum rules.

Lets look at some more of those rules shall we?

You are allowed to reference any abilities characters have demonstrated, at the full capacity that characters have demonstrated they inherently have (so minus temporary, external boosts for example). Said demonstration within the comics does not have to have taken place within a battle scenario. That is ABSURD. 😆

If you cannot make any head way in a debate without moving the goalposts and setting parameters (contrary to forum rules) that bias a debates outcome in your favour then you are an incompetent debater. [/B]

1. Dude I caught you in a lie. You tried to use a different comic scan as if it was from the same comic to show Sentry blew up. Sentry never blew up. He disappeared without any remnants. It was a bright flash and poof he was gone. Yet you posted scans of MM blowing Sentry up as if it was from the same story. You are a scammer and lose credibility due to the troll tactics and deception. Margana explains in the same comic about erasing the avengers from the time line as an explanation of what happened to Bob. You will lose all credibility if you want to argue that she someone blew up Sentry (and not erased him) despite her words and writer's intent.
And it's called artistic expression. A writer/artist can dipict someone being erased in any form they choose. As long as no remnants remain of that being.

2. I'm referring to Sentry at his best, not at his worse. At his best he can reform from disintegration and erasure. Nothing less.

3. So you admit to using a character's lows against another character's highs? Shameful. You ignore your trolling with new arguments to cover it up. Dude you lost all credibility. You are not a respected debater but a clever troll.
I never stated Sentry would win this fight. I stated Sentry at his best (whether you call him void try or void is irrelevant) would win. If you concede to voidtry or whatever version of Sentry beating Phoenix then the debate is over. If you don't then let's continue the debate.

4. How a character fights in battle is everything. It proves propensity and ability. Characters just don't sit there and allow you to do what you want. Phoenix may never get an opportunity to do anything if Sentry acts first. If Phoenix never did a certain tactic in a battle then why would she do so in a forum fight? Propensity dude.

5. Full capacity I agree. But using a character's low showings (in which character has higher ones that contradict) against another character's high showings is trolling and certainly not using full capacity for both.

6. Travel in space speed doesn't equal battle speed. Sentry would view her as a statue. A human can travel at many times faster than light, provided they can spend time to accelerate to that speed. GLs can travel far faster than Phoenix can in space but they would be a statue to a real speedster in battle.

7. Sentry has many durability feats that make him more durable than Hercules and Thor. So separating his atoms is one hell of a feat.

8. Prove that it is canon that MM was amped with beyonders energies when he faced Galactus. Stating it's canon is not proof.