Dooku vs. Sidious

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Lol. Whatever Nai. You win.

Cool signature, Revan and Glen.

Edit: Actually, Nai, it says on Yoda's Star Wars.com databank that Sidious was too powerful for Yoda to defeat. Check it out if you don't believe me. It also says that both were "the two most powerful practitioners of the Force's opposite sides - Light and Dark" during Revenge of the Sith. Not "Dooku and Yoda".

Second Edit: Um...as for the EYES excuse...Yoda's hand is parallel with his chest. Not his eyes. So you have only speculation, Nai. Can't you just come to grips with the facts that Sidious isn't as weak as you'd like to believe and that he CAN give Yoda hell?

Third Edit: Damn...I'm full of these edits. Can you deliver me a quote where he had them look into his mind? Or are you going from the novel. If you're speculating from what the novel said, it also said Yoda got his ass handed to him by Sidious. So...yeah...if you have a quote (not saying that you don't) I want to see it.

Darth Somebody... do you ACTUALLY believe Sidious was "too powerful" for Yoda to defeat if they are roughly the same as you have been saying?

Well, to me the wording is correct. Notice how he says Yoda does not get owned. I just seriously don't see anything that would make me believe what Nai has been spouting with the "Sidious is nothing compared to Yoda" and stuff like that. He has no proof to indicate it either.

It said "too powerful to defeat" not "more powerful than Yoda". It just meant that Sidious was powerful enough that Yoda couldn't defeat him. It didn't say Sidious defeated Yoda, per say, either. It just said Yoda couldn't defeat Sidious. And he didn't.

Yoda could defeat Sidious. Sidious tried to run for crying out loud.

Well, when you word it like that it does provide a nice loophole...

But Sidious is not too powerful too defeat. There is nothing to prove this. If anything, the main factor in the battle being handed to Sidious was tactical advantage, as you said yourself. Thus, there was no power involved. Also, it was an act of sheer luck that Yoda was unable to recover his balance and that his lightsaber was destroyed or damaged. Luck. Again, no power involved.

So pray tell me... How is he too powerful for anything?

Sidious was a coward. And do I need to go back and explain my reasons for WHY he ran away?

Indeed it IS a good loophole.

It does not hint or implicate Sidious is the stronger of the two. Nor does it say that Yoda is stronger, either. It simply says that Sidious was too powerful for Yoda to defeat. Which is true. Sidious WAS too powerful to defeat, otherwise Yoda would have done it. At the same time, I doubt Sidious could've defeated Yoda, either.

And luck is a very fluid term. Tell me. Do you agree Maul was defeated by Obi-Wan through luck?

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Edit: Actually, Nai, it says on Yoda's Star Wars.com databank that Sidious was too powerful for Yoda to defeat. Check it out if you don't believe me. It also says that both were "the two most powerful practitioners of the Force's opposite sides - Light and Dark" during Revenge of the Sith. Not "Dooku and Yoda".

Bah...when do you get it.

a) I never said that Dooku was stronger in the force than Sidious.
b) The same site tells you that Dooku and Yoda are superior to Mace and that Mace has beaten Sidious. So either the site contradicts itself and thereby can't be a valid source OR you have to admit that Dooku would beat Sidious. Your choice. In each case you lose.

Second Edit: Um...as for the EYES excuse...Yoda's hand is parallel with his chest. Not his eyes. So you have only speculation, Nai. Can't you just come to grips with the facts that Sidious isn't as weak as you'd like to believe and that he CAN give Yoda hell?

And again: WTF ?
Would you please stop twisting my words ? I just said that Sidious is not far more powerful than Dooku and that Sidious is nothing compared to Yoda in a lightsaber fight.

Suggestion A is supported by anything seen in the movies while B can be also watched in the movies and is also supported by Nick Gillard who is the lightsaber fight coordinator.

Third Edit: Damn...I'm full of these edits. Can you deliver me a quote where he had them look into his mind? Or are you going from the novel. If you're speculating from what the novel said, it also said Yoda got his ass handed to him by Sidious. So...yeah...if you have a quote (not saying that you don't) I want to see it.

A surprise action is a surprise action no matter where the surprise comes from. That things was taken from the novel - but the novel is just "canon" as long as it doesn't contradict the films and still they don't tell you in the novel that Yoda got his ass handed to him by Sidious. They only tell you that he can't win. You know the difference between "not being able to win" and "lose" ?

So this is another pathetic try to save your illogical reasoning. Still the fact remains: Mace > Sidious / Dooku > Mace. We don't have to discuss about Yoda here since that doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Indeed it IS a good loophole.

It does not hint or implicate Sidious is the stronger of the two. Nor does it say that Yoda is stronger, either. It simply says that Sidious was too powerful for Yoda to defeat. Which is true. Sidious WAS too powerful to defeat, otherwise Yoda would have done it. At the same time, I doubt Sidious could've defeated Yoda, either.

And luck is a very fluid term. Tell me. Do you agree Maul was defeated by Obi-Wan through luck?

WTF.... He wasn't "too powerful" to defeat! It's plain as day! It could be AOTC Anakin up there, the point was Yoda was in no condition to continue the battle! There were clone troopers coming in, and Sidious had NO qualms about letting them find and destroy Yoda. And Yoda may be good, but he can't fight off a gazillion troops and Sidious at once while traversing a distance easily over a hundred meters. Power had NOTHING to do with Sidious' victory.

Yep. It says that. Of course, then again, some styles and fights - as Janus has provided - are based on luck. It could be LUCK, that Mace kicked Sidious's hand and he was disarmed. Kinda cool when you use the luck argument, don't you think?

And it doesn't say Dooku is stronger than Sidious, so I can't say if Dooku would win. So no...I don't lose. 😉

Of course you know what your talking about. Are you trying to tell me or just re-assure yourself, I wonder...

Still. You said Sidious had them look in his mind. You didn't provide me with a quote. So are you telling me that you can't provide PROOF that he had them do it?

And yes. The novel states that Yoda "just didn't have it". The new Sith couldn't be beaten the way Yoda was trying to win.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
WTF.... He wasn't "too powerful" to defeat! It's plain as day! It could be AOTC Anakin up there, the point was Yoda was in no condition to continue the battle! There were clone troopers coming in, and Sidious had NO qualms about letting them find and destroy Yoda. And Yoda may be good, but he can't fight off a gazillion troops and Sidious at once while traversing a distance easily over a hundred meters. Power had NOTHING to do with Sidious' victory.

Really? I was under the impression from Nai that Yoda could just do that. Being leagues and leagues above Sidious - who we all know is better than the Troopers - I'm most certain he could.

And tell me. Where did Sidious call the Clones?

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Yep. It says that. Of course, then again, some styles and fights - as Janus has provided - are based on luck. It could be LUCK, that Mace kicked Sidious's hand and he was disarmed. Kinda cool when you use the luck argument, don't you think?

And it doesn't say Dooku is stronger than Sidious, so I can't say if Dooku would win. So no...I don't lose. 😉

Of course you know what your talking about. Are you trying to tell me or just re-assure yourself, I wonder...

Still. You said Sidious had them look in his mind. You didn't provide me with a quote. So are you telling me that you can't provide PROOF that he had them do it?

And yes. The novel states that Yoda "just didn't have it". The new Sith couldn't be beaten the way Yoda was trying to win.

You are starting to be the next Great Vengeance, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Let's define luck in battle.

Was it luck or deliberate skill that allowed Mace to beat Sidious? Deliberate skill. He had the -intent- to unarm Sidious and did it.

Was it luck or deliberate skill that allowed Obi-wan to beat Maul? Deliberate skill. Obi-Wan cleared his thoughts, called on the Force, and leapt up with the -intent- to kill Maul.

Was it luck or deliberate skill that made Yoda fall and his lightsaber be broken? Luck. While Sidious would no doubt desire both, he did not have the -intent- to specifically do either.

Do me a favor and use reason, fanboy.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
You are starting to be the next Great Vengeance, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Let's define luck in battle.

Was it luck or deliberate skill that allowed Mace to beat Sidious? Deliberate skill. He had the -intent- to unarm Sidious and did it.

Was it luck or deliberate skill that allowed Obi-wan to beat Maul? Deliberate skill. Obi-Wan cleared his thoughts, called on the Force, and leapt up with the -intent- to kill Maul.

Was it luck or deliberate skill that made Yoda fall and his lightsaber be broken? Luck. While Sidious would no doubt desire both, he did not have the -intent- to specifically do either.

Do me a favor and use reason, fanboy.

Actually, I'm not a fanboy. Sadly, I've defended Dooku as much as Sidious here. So clearly there is no bias. But thanks once again for showing me how easily it is to annoy one. Perhaps you ought to use the Force and clear your OWN mind, eh?

Lol. Sidious was the one who blasted the saber away. It flew from Yoda's hands. It was -intended- lol. 🙂

You see, when Yoda tossed the pod back up at Sidious - he flipped away and landed on another pod. Yoda persued, and drew his lightsaber. Sidious turned and BLASTED it from his hands. Lol. He aimed for Yoda's hand and it knocked the saber away.

The fall can be attributed to luck. But Janus, lol, the saber part wasn't.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Yep. It says that. Of course, then again, some styles and fights - as Janus has provided - are based on luck. It could be LUCK, that Mace kicked Sidious's hand and he was disarmed. Kinda cool when you use the luck argument, don't you think?

Oh great. Did you read somewhere that Sidious is superior to Mace, Yoda or Dooku in lightsaber combat ? No ? Why not ? Because he is not. And luck ? Ever read about Mace Shatterpoint ability ? No ?

And Nick Gillard clearly stated that (for lightsaber combat): Yoda > Dooku > Mace > Sidious. You can twist that as you like still the result remains the same. Dooku > Sidious.

And it doesn't say Dooku is stronger than Sidious, so I can't say if Dooku would win. So no...I don't lose. 😉

Woohoo...btw. where on StarWars.com is said that Sidious was too powerful for Yoda ? Yoda is not even mentioned in the article about Palpatine or Sidious. Ups ? Owned yourself ?

Still. You said Sidious had them look in his mind. You didn't provide me with a quote. So are you telling me that you can't provide PROOF that he had them do it?

It's in the novel (I said that). Read it yourself.

And yes. The novel states that Yoda "just didn't have it". The new Sith couldn't be beaten the way Yoda was trying to win.

The novel states that Yoda can't win...not that he had his ass kicked. And why he can't win ? Because he:

a) lost his lightsaber
b) can't kill Sidious with force powers
c) can't find fantastillion of clone troopers + Sidious while jumping up to Sidious again.

Great deal.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Lol. Sidious was the one who blasted the saber away. It flew from Yoda's hands. It was -intended- lol. 🙂

LOL. This is FORCE LIGHTNING ! You can't aim that on a goddamn lightsaber. He aimed it at Yoda and Yoda had to drop his lightsaber to deflect the lightning.

So intention of Sidious: toast Yoda
Luck A: Yoda lost his saber
Luck B: When the force energy between them exploded Yoda fell down and Sidious did not.

L - U - C - K !

Nai, lol, I told you. Count Dooku would defeat Sidious in a lightsaber duel. If all your argument was about a lightsaber duel, hell yeah. I'd agree with you. But in a competition of Force Powers, nope. Sidious would win.

And yep. I noticed that in the databank entry about Sidious and Palpatine. I assume they really need to update it. The one regarding Nute Gunray was updated weeks upon weeks ago. It was the only bio that said Sidious was Palpatine. It just took up to a week ago for many of the biographies to be fully edited and updated.

Also, lol, your arrogance is astounding.

No. The saber was blasted from his hands. Then Sidious fired AGAIN and Yoda blocked it. If you're right, I'll apologize. Can you provide a clip or screenshot?

Could we have another "lol" along with the other half of your argument?

Lol. <-- Is this sufficient?

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
LOL. This is FORCE LIGHTNING ! You can't aim that on a goddamn lightsaber. He aimed it at Yoda and Yoda had to drop his lightsaber to deflect the lightning.

So intention of Sidious: toast Yoda
Luck A: Yoda lost his saber
Luck B: When the force energy between them exploded Yoda fell down and Sidious did not.

L - U - C - K !

They both fell, but Sidious grabbed onto something because it wa stheir, but Yoda had nothing to grab on to.