From the Making of ROTS, page 205
"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't gotten all beat-up, he could've beat the Emperor"
Mace or Yoda, and Also Anakin if he hadn't gotten beat-up. Not Dooku.
The New Essential Chronology says:
"Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
There's 2 sources saying Sidious > Dooku.
And then who beat Yoda? Sidious did. So what if it's because he had the terrain advantage, he still won where Dooku failed twice. Obviously Sidious is superior to Dooku.
Originally posted by overlord
Don't worry, we'll have Borborad twist the words of Lucas around to make sure Dooku is still better than Mace. And then with all kinds of cool nonsense, we'll have Dooku beat Sidious.
Like I told Lightsnake. Nai Fohl knows his stuff. Badass debator. That is, if you don't give him a topic involving Sidious. To him, Sidious always loses. Yoda, Mace, Dooku, C-3PO, Random Clonetrooper 31, and a droideka are all individually more powerful than Sidious.
I think if I ever see the statement "Sidious wins" or "Sidious owns", I might pass out.
I truly belvie dooku is stronger. that is why in EPIII sidous decied to have anikanin kill him. he feared that if aninakin didnt work out. dooku will probly surpass him i n do time. the only thing that i think could mean a diffenrce is in force powers. i belive that dooku coudve surrpassed him....starwars
Originally posted by Anthony$Billy
I truly belvie dooku is stronger. that is why in EPIII sidous decied to have anikanin kill him. he feared that if aninakin didnt work out. dooku will probly surpass him i n do time. the only thing that i think could mean a diffenrce is in force powers. i belive that dooku coudve surrpassed him....starwars
Can I ask you something? I'm not going to spur another debate. This is a dead thread - and I've already argued enough against Count Dooku on another thread, which is leading me to hate him . . .
Just answer a question, for me.
If Count Dooku were more powerful than Sidious, then why didn't George Lucas make him the main villain of the Star Wars series?
Just, please, think about that.
Originally posted by Escape81
Can I ask you something? I'm not going to spur another debate. This is a dead thread - and I've already argued enough against Count Dooku on another thread, which is leading me to hate him . . .Just answer a question, for me.
If Count Dooku were more powerful than Sidious, then why didn't George Lucas make him the main villain of the Star Wars series?
Just, please, think about that.
Here let me answer that like a fanboy would:
Because then the Jedi wouldn't have been able to defeat Dooku.
Palpatine is stronger then Dooku. Dooku is lesser then Palpatine. Enough said. The movies back us up on this one with the fact that Dooku isn't the master. Palpatine killed Three Jedi Council members and Dooku was killed by a Jedi Knight.
i think that sidious is stronger for the following reasons.
Obi wan could hold off dooku's lightning and very easily, the same cannot be said for mace windu, OR yoda, its said that mace was chocking from the ozone being giving off by the lightsaber combusting with the lightning, also palpatine being a sith gets stronger under pain not weaker, eventually mace would have lost.
Its been stated by many that sidious let mace win, how is it that he was fighting yoda to a stand still yet cant beat mace, doesnt add up.
And i did see yoda and sidious fight face to face with the lightsabers it was pretty even
Yoda was giving dooku trouble, dooku owned obi wan and anakin but he could not over come yoda with the force, yoda was to strong, he could just deflect the lighthing or absorb it, or just toss back anything dooku could throw at him, and from what i was seeing, dooku was having a really hard time fighting yoda or at least not an easy time, sidious was having fun while fighting yoda, dooku even with all his powers was not.
Sidious has the highest midiclorian count sept for anakin ive read.
Originally posted by Mider999Stated by whom? for the last time stop pulling that out of your ass, No one has ever proven this, Sid only acted weak after he got beaten down, stop making things up, vaapad and shatterpoint is what put sidious on his assIts been stated by many that sidious let mace win, how is it that he was fighting yoda to a stand still yet cant beat mace, doesnt add up.
Originally posted by Mider999Nice, i see you got that from super shadow...Sidious has the highest midiclorian count sept for anakin ive read.
Dooku is not as strong as Sidious. But he could have a hope of beating him in sabers only. In The Force, Sidious simply has too much power for anyone blow Yoda to handle in the PT.
This is hardly a blackmark against Dooku. The fact he can even compete somewhat with people like Yoda or Sidious shows he's no chump. he just isn't up to their level. Much like current Apocalypse would fair against average Thor- hee'd put up one hell of a fight but he simply doesn't have the capacity to take him.
Originally posted by Kadesh
Stated by whom? for the last time stop pulling that out of your ass, No one has ever proven this, Sid only acted weak after he got beaten down, stop making things up, vaapad and shatterpoint is what put sidious on his assNice, i see you got that from super shadow...
Aside from the Skywalkers, the Force Users who likely have the most potential are Revan, Bane, Zannah and Kyp Durron.
Originally posted by Dessel
Aside from the Skywalkers, the Force Users who likely have the most potential are Revan, Bane, Zannah and Kyp Durron.
Incorrect.
Palpatine > Revan, Bane, Zannah, and Kyp Durron, though Kyp's potential may be close to Luke's. Your information is incorrect, and you've got nothing that says they're even close to Palpatine, whose potential is much less than Luke's.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Well, in saber combat I believe Dooku would own him. However, to say Sdious' command of the Force is better than Dooku's is a bit premature. Perhaps his Sith lore is better (Hence his awesome Sith lightning). However, Dooku easily vanquished Obi-Wan with the Force.... And since Mace Windu (who was a bit surprised and taken aback) can deflect the lightning at close range... Dooku, who is stronger in the Force and has more experience in Sith lore, would be able to counter such measures. So why was Dooku the apprentice? That's another story, although I have some ideas.
Sidious was obviously the better swordsman... 🙄
Palpatine's potential was hardly beyond someone like Mace Windu imo. His knowledge base is what makes him incredible, not his raw power.
Judging by how quickly Bane became as powerful as he did in PoD, I'd say it's likely his potential exceeds Palpatine. There's also the fact that he's clearly the sith'ari, which imo is intended to be the virtual opposite of the chosen one.
Zannah's raw power is most likely very great too, considering she was able to instakill 2 jedi at the age of 10, with no training whatsoever, it was purely through instinct. And these jedi weren't exactly weak either, one of them, Petja, was one of the stronger jedi of the order.
Kyp Durron's potential has been described as close to Luke's, from what I heard, Luke's potential is double that of Palpatine's. Kyp is definitely > Palpatine in that regard.
Palpatine's potential was hardly beyond someone like Mace Windu imo. His knowledge base is what makes him incredible, not his raw power.
Well, I don't know what Star Wars literature you read, or what forum you used to debate on, but Mace Windu and Count Dooku were some of the most powerful Jedi to ever grace the Order. Their potential is, most decidedly, pretty damn strong.
And, there's nothing to indicate that Palpatine ever achieved his potential in his lifetime.
Judging by how quickly Bane became as powerful as he did in PoD, I'd say it's likely his potential exceeds Palpatine. There's also the fact that he's clearly the sith'ari, which imo is intended to be the virtual opposite of the chosen one.
It's confirmed that Palpatine, as of TPM, is more powerful than Bane. Lightsnake can debrief you on why.
Zannah's raw power is most likely very great too, considering she was able to instakill 2 jedi at the age of 10, with no training whatsoever, it was purely through instinct. And these jedi weren't exactly weak either, one of them, Petja, was one of the stronger jedi of the order
With Zannah, you may have an argument. But not with Bane, and most certainly not with Revan.
Kyp Durron's potential has been described as close to Luke's, from what I heard, Luke's potential is double that of Palpatine's. Kyp is definitely > Palpatine in that regard.
The whole power relationship between Kyp and Luke has been conflicted and retracted on occasions. Kyp is in his forties himself and is unable to achieve anything close to what Luke can.