Emma Frost vs. Sue Richards (mental assault).

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
1. Point? That's the specifications of the thread also. That they're face to face.
2. Not Sue's problem. Since when did Emma become a pillar of morals? She's backstabbed her share of people.
3. Exactly. Emma is saying she'll use force if Sue doesn't calm down. We saw what Sue thought of that, didn't we?
4. Right. What was the result of it?
5. She's a telepath. Sue had to turn around and strike. If what all of you say is true, it takes time blah blah blah. Emma should have had that more than scouted.
6. That's very speculatory.
7. If is a lovely word.

And you tend to disregard numbers 2 to 6. But I'm sure that's irrelevant 😉.

You are continually claiming with some kind of scientific validity, the specifics of both powers. How? Victor asked you this before and we discovered that it's bound by heavy speculation. So please, indulge me.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And you tend to disregard numbers 2 to 6. But I'm sure that's irrelevant 😉.

You are continually claiming with some kind of scientific validity, the specifics of both powers. How? Victor asked you this before and we discovered that it's bound by heavy speculation. So please, indulge me.

-AC

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You disregard the circumstances of the scan and this thread in your responses - there was nothing of value in 2-6 to respond to.

I don't. I acknowledged the scans and when you tried insisting I didn't believe they were relevant, I said they may very well be. I just questioned this "favourable" position that they supposedly put Emma in.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sue's powers are mentally controlled but physically exerted. Telepathy is mentally controlled and exerted simultaneously.

Is it physically exerted? OR....or.....is it just a tangible manifestation as a result of psionic ability?

-AC

While not wishing to elevate the brow of this thread too much, I couldn't help but be reminded of something I once read by Arthur Stanley Eddington in "The Nature of the Physical World."

I am standing on the threshold about to enter a room. It is a complicated business. In the first place I must shove against an atmosphere pressing with a force of 14 pounds on every square inch of my body. I must make sure of landing on a plank traveling at 20 miles a second round the sun – a fraction of a second too early or too late, the plank would be miles away. I must do this while hanging from a round planet head outward into space, and with a wind of aether blowing at no one knows how many miles a second through every interstice of my body. The plank has no solidity of substance. To step on it is like stepping on a swarm of flies. Shall I not slip through? No, if I make the venture one of the flies hits me and gives a boost up again; I fall again and am knocked upwards by another fly; and so on. I may hope that the net result will be that I remain about steady; but if unfortunately I should slip through the floor or be boosted too violently up to the ceiling, the occurrence would be, not a violation of the laws of Nature, but a rare coincidence …Verily, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a scientific man to pass through a door.

And whether the door be barn door or church door it might be wiser that he should consent to be an ordinary man and walk in rather than wait till all the difficulties involved in a really scientific ingress are resolved.

All good fun though.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Please. Clever wordplay won't work on me - I'm not stormfront. You disregard the circumstances of the scan and this thread in your responses - there was nothing of value in 2-6 to respond to.
Sue's powers are mentally controlled but physically exerted. Telepathy is mentally controlled and exerted simultaneously.

Again, you dont grasp her power. Explain how the physical manifestation of Sue's power is different from emma's.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't. I acknowledged the scans and when you tried insisting I didn't believe they were relevant, I said they may very well be. I just questioned this "favourable" position that they supposedly put Emma in.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Is it physically exerted? OR....or.....is it just a tangible manifestation as a result of psionic ability?

-AC

U assume they all originate from her body. TP originates from Emma's body! IW's powers originate in another dimension and are just as abstract as TP.

Sue's powers are effectuated physically. Emma's are not. In telepathy thought is action - not so for Sue's offensive abilities. As already stated ad nauseum Sue simply has more steps.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If you had read my post properly you would have realised my notes were in reference to the second scan explaining the circumstances under which Emma was knocked out by Sue since for numerous pages in numerous threads that one encounter has been cited as an example of Sue being faster than Emma. Say it with me: Sucker punch.
The earlier scan is Emma catching Sue and everyone else on the battlefield unawares. The latter is Sue catching Emma unaware - although no one seems to be acknowledging that on the Sue side.
None of your responses 2-6 were relevant to the situation at hand.
2. They are not allies in this fight
3. Emma is not hesitant in this fight.
4. Sue hit Emma. However they are not as close here, also refer to 2 & 3.
5. Telepaths are not precogs.
6. No it's not speculatory - it's general consensus, and if I recall often stated.

2. They're clearly not allies there, in the true sense.
3. Yes, nor is Sue.
4. Yes because you measure their distance in the comic. Sure they're a bit further apart. 10 feet isn't huge. Sue knocked her about 10 feet.
5. They read minds, do they not? Then she could very well have read the "I'm gonna turn and attack".
6. General consensus based on speculation.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
In other words a physical manifestation under mental control - she produces a force which is under mental manipulation and they are [b]projections - they originate and are projected from her own body. [/B]

They don't originate from her body though, firstly. She creates them and psionically manipulates them. They're not physical.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Demigawd, I believe you asked where she used force. She's not using a bubble and I do believe Emma is being knocked base over apex.
[/B]

Looked like a curved round object to me. And one that travels, too. Extra step.

I think we can all pretty much stop here. The arguments are getting circular, and nobody has really brought anything outside of their core points to the table since page four or so (though the scans were DEFINITELY helpful). I'll leave it here for the rest board to decide (polls don't look good for Sue).

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sue's powers are effectuated physically. Emma's are not. In telepathy thought is action - not so for Sue's offensive abilities. As already stated ad nauseum Sue simply has more steps.

Uh are you serious? Is the brain not a physical location?

Brain is physical. Mind is not.

Originally posted by demigawd
Looked like a curved round object to me. And one that travels, too. Extra step.

I think we can all pretty much stop here. The arguments are getting circular, and nobody has really brought anything outside of their core points to the table since page four or so (though the scans were DEFINITELY helpful). I'll leave it here for the rest board to decide (polls don't look good for Sue).

Firstly, polls don't exactly mean anything. Anyone can click and point.

Second, the scans just added more opinion to the mix, no...don't claw at the monitor and claim I'm disregarding them, I'm not.

The curved round object is quite obviously there to show the powers, not neccessarily saying that's what she just created. Either way, it's force. It's not a bubble, or a shield. She's extending her arm and producing force.

-AC

Originally posted by Wynndar
Uh are you serious? Is the brain not a physical location?

Originally posted by demigawd
polls don't look good for Sue.

Originally posted by demigawd
Brain is physical. Mind is not.

the mind is physical...the soul is not. Thus a person's mind can be affected by physical means, ie chemical imbalance, physical trauma, etc.

It's not just force, it's like anything else she produces. She still has to think, "make invisible object yay high, project at yay speed". two extra steps in this case, plus the time it actually takes to project at yay speed.

Emma: Sue. Off.

Originally posted by Wynndar
the mind is physical...the soul is not. Thus a person's mind can be affected by physical means, ie chemical imbalance, physical trauma, etc.

and in comics the soul can be removed.

Originally posted by Wynndar
the mind is physical...the soul is not. Thus a person's mind can be affected by physical means, ie chemical imbalance, physical trauma, etc.

Problems with the brain can affect the mind, but the mind isn't a physical thing. The mind is consciousness...your mental being. It's the other aspect of the soul. As for the *actual* source of mental energy (in comics)? The Astral Plane, where all minds are interconnected. So the "off" command is instant, since all mind are interconnected on the Astral Plane.